1. #2341
    Quote Originally Posted by Horizon View Post
    I think you're exaggerating a tiny bit on the time I don't think most people sat in the same group for that long and I think (no basis for this except memory long withered ^^) people spent around the same time in a difficult HC that they do in todays LFR. I definitely agree with you that its difficult creating “fun and engaging” casual content (for me its pvp).
    If you wanted your VP reward at the end of the instance you stuck it out. You're right that most people didn't sit in the same group for that long. They simply logged out and unsubscribed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Horizon View Post
    I think that if they did a daily on the plants vs zombie quest chain and if that was somewhat challenging it would be pretty awesome, why hasn't this been done yet blizzard!?
    Because when you're busy playing plants vs zombies you're not raiding and anything that's not raiding should either give no reward or be boring as hell so that you will want to go raid instead.
    Quote Originally Posted by CandyCotton Marshmallows View Post
    People need to get over the gear color (and themselves). It doesn't matter, and it shouldn't matter what other players have either. Worry about your damn self. Live your life by that. If you want to concern yourself with someone else, then worry about HELPING them, not putting them down or making sure you stand out as better than them.
    Maybe the game would be better with more low DPS nice guys and fewer high DPS jerks? -- Ghostcrawler, Twitter, 6/29/13

  2. #2342
    Warchief Seefer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post
    If you wanted your VP reward at the end of the instance you stuck it out. You're right that most people didn't sit in the same group for that long. They simply logged out and unsubscribed.


    Because when you're busy playing plants vs zombies you're not raiding and anything that's not raiding should either give no reward or be boring as hell so that you will want to go raid instead.
    So if you are so miserable with the game why don't you just quit and find something that offers what you want? I swear I hate a lot of Ghostcrawlers choices but god damn I am starting to feel sorry for the man, damned if they do damned if they don't.
    "Of all the animals, man is the only one that is cruel. He is the only one who inflicts pain for the pleasure of doing it." - Mark Twain

  3. #2343
    Quote Originally Posted by Horizon View Post
    I think that if they did a daily on the plants vs zombie quest chain and if that was somewhat challenging it would be pretty awesome, why hasn't this been done yet blizzard!?
    Don't get me wrong Plants Vs Zombies is awesome but I cannot see EA being too happy with their major competitor using one of their IPs.

  4. #2344
    brawls, pets, timeless isle, proving grounds, flex... what more could you really want?

  5. #2345
    Do any of the people who want casual content actually know what they want?

    I'm just curious, not trying to be a troll... what would be "casual friendly" content?

    Dungeons aren't a challenge, but Heroic Scenarios maybe? Challenge mode dungeons? Proving Grounds?

    What non-commitment based challenging, gear-rewarding game-play would you like to see?

  6. #2346
    Quote Originally Posted by zoomgpally View Post
    Oh, its another post about how nothing can be difficult without requiring 6 hours without breaks

    And no, casual and exciting are just as contradictory as raid and pve

    Edit: Give me content so difficult even world top 10 players will cry themselves to sleep, and ill be happy about my new exciting content.

    And there we come to the tired old excuse. Other than the TOP GUILDS going for WORLD FIRSTS what guild raids or pvps for SIX HOURS STRAIGHT. six hour raidnig died in BC so try and find a more original excuse to wanting to experience everything while putting in minimal effort possible.
    STRESS
    The confusion caused when one's mind
    overrides the body's basic
    desire to choke the living shit out of
    some jerk who desperately needs it

  7. #2347
    Quote Originally Posted by Seefer View Post
    So if you are so miserable with the game why don't you just quit and find something that offers what you want? I swear I hate a lot of Ghostcrawlers choices but god damn I am starting to feel sorry for the man, damned if they do damned if they don't.
    I think he is being a bit ironic and with all reason, mmo content for casuals has rarely been fun since a lot (if not all) of the fun comes from playing with friends at least this is my opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    Don't get me wrong Plants Vs Zombies is awesome but I cannot see EA being too happy with their major competitor using one of their IPs.
    I think they where independent when the quest initially was introduced and yes it probably wouldn't fly today, sadly

  8. #2348
    Warchief Seefer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Horizon View Post
    I think he is being a bit ironic and with all reason, mmo content for casuals has rarely been fun since a lot (if not all) of the fun comes from playing with friends at least this is my opinion.
    It does, and that is what MMOs are about, I keep saying if people want single player experiences they need to play single player games.
    "Of all the animals, man is the only one that is cruel. He is the only one who inflicts pain for the pleasure of doing it." - Mark Twain

  9. #2349
    Quote Originally Posted by Seefer View Post
    So if you are so miserable with the game why don't you just quit and find something that offers what you want? I swear I hate a lot of Ghostcrawlers choices but god damn I am starting to feel sorry for the man, damned if they do damned if they don't.
    I did quit and I recently resubscribed because I wanted to complete the cloak quest. I just have to kill the Celestials now. After that I'll probably unsub again.
    Quote Originally Posted by CandyCotton Marshmallows View Post
    People need to get over the gear color (and themselves). It doesn't matter, and it shouldn't matter what other players have either. Worry about your damn self. Live your life by that. If you want to concern yourself with someone else, then worry about HELPING them, not putting them down or making sure you stand out as better than them.
    Maybe the game would be better with more low DPS nice guys and fewer high DPS jerks? -- Ghostcrawler, Twitter, 6/29/13

  10. #2350
    Quote Originally Posted by Seefer View Post
    It does, and that is what MMOs are about, I keep saying if people want single player experiences they need to play single player games.
    I agree with you 100% on this one

  11. #2351
    Quote Originally Posted by Seefer View Post
    It does, and that is what MMOs are about, I keep saying if people want single player experiences they need to play single player games.
    How much fun was it to sit out of the game for three weeks while one of your friends was moving?
    Quote Originally Posted by CandyCotton Marshmallows View Post
    People need to get over the gear color (and themselves). It doesn't matter, and it shouldn't matter what other players have either. Worry about your damn self. Live your life by that. If you want to concern yourself with someone else, then worry about HELPING them, not putting them down or making sure you stand out as better than them.
    Maybe the game would be better with more low DPS nice guys and fewer high DPS jerks? -- Ghostcrawler, Twitter, 6/29/13

  12. #2352
    Warchief Seefer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post
    How much fun was it to sit out of the game for three weeks while one of your friends was moving?
    Who says I sat out? I did Flex with friends and it was 1 week the other 2 weeks were recruiting and we pugged normal and flex with some friends in another guild and some new recruits to help them get gear.......I put forth effort to do things rather than sit back and do nothing and bitch about not having anything to do even though there is a lot to do.
    Last edited by Seefer; 2013-11-07 at 09:06 PM.
    "Of all the animals, man is the only one that is cruel. He is the only one who inflicts pain for the pleasure of doing it." - Mark Twain

  13. #2353
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post
    How much fun was it to sit out of the game for three weeks while one of your friends was moving?
    I think what Seefer is trying to say is that MMOrpg should be about a group of heroes while the solo hero is a singleplayer thing (Diablo/Skyrim).

    in other words the mmo hero isn't all mighty the way other rpg heroes are, they are only able to achieve awesome things in a group

  14. #2354
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post
    That's called being social. WoW is a game, not work. When I'm at work I expect to be rewarded for my efforts. When I play a game I expect to be entertained. If I'm pulling twice the DPS or twice the HPS as the next guy I have to same I'm entertained. I don't need a special piece of gear that's going to boost my performance from 200% of the next guy to 300% of the next guy in order to feel "rewarded." The entertainment is a reward in and of itself. That's not to say that I don't ever want gear; that feeling that my character is steadily progressing and growing stronger is entertaining too. My point is that I don't feel that I deserve that feeling any more than the next guy just because I happen to be more skilled at the game than they are.
    You completely missed the point. It's not FAIR that someone is working twice as hard for something when multiple others get away with derping around and its issues like these that slowly start pissing people off and get hostile. There is no logical reason for a player who is genuinely interested in the game to play with people who aren't, even you talk about progression when it is both counter productive and takes far longer to downgrade to a poor guild.

    Arguably what you described could be considered as the opposite of social since you get to keep your raid spot and probably get loot before others and don't have to deal with people because of your capabilities.

    It's also very repulsive to read posts that say "blizzard has failed to please casuals", especially those who can't provide a single proper feature that could work long term. Do you even realize how borderline impossible it is to please a crowd of players who barely play the game, can't be arsed with mechanics and still want to be remain relatively competitive in the current tier of content?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post
    I did quit and I recently resubscribed because I wanted to complete the cloak quest. I just have to kill the Celestials now. After that I'll probably unsub again.
    Why would you resubscribe for something you have absolutely no use for? How would it even be possible to change the game to satisfy someone like you? And more importantly, is it really worth the effort?
    Last edited by Strafir; 2013-11-07 at 09:43 PM.

  15. #2355
    Bloodsail Admiral Huntardicus's Avatar
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    I think with one or two new things to do at end game, Blizz could hit a sort of sweet spot, but one of the things needs to be worth doing as little or as much as the player wants.

  16. #2356
    Quote Originally Posted by Strafir View Post
    You completely missed the point. It's not FAIR that someone is working twice as hard for something when multiple others get away with derping around and its issues like these that slowly start pissing people off and get hostile. There is no logical reason for a player who is genuinely interested in the game to play with people who aren't, even you talk about progression when it is both counter productive and takes far longer to downgrade to a poor guild.
    When have games ever been fair? It's not fair that on my first AQ run ever the legendary dropped and I won the loot roll for it while many others who had been running it for years were left with nothing, but that's how the game works. To expect otherwise is ridiculous. Even real life isn't fair. If you continue to view loot as a means of promoting fairness I predict you'll be sorely disappointed.
    Quote Originally Posted by CandyCotton Marshmallows View Post
    People need to get over the gear color (and themselves). It doesn't matter, and it shouldn't matter what other players have either. Worry about your damn self. Live your life by that. If you want to concern yourself with someone else, then worry about HELPING them, not putting them down or making sure you stand out as better than them.
    Maybe the game would be better with more low DPS nice guys and fewer high DPS jerks? -- Ghostcrawler, Twitter, 6/29/13

  17. #2357
    Quote Originally Posted by Huntardicus View Post
    I think with one or two new things to do at end game, Blizz could hit a sort of sweet spot, but one of the things needs to be worth doing as little or as much as the player wants.
    I thought about instead of having VP items be the 'preraid' gearing up, they could just scale 5mans and sprinkle in a couple new ones here and there. Like for the first patch, have normal 5mans be easy and heroics be modest in difficulty. Next raid tier (or even the current tier) give a difficulty called 'legendary' where there's a modest chance of an item equal to flex of the current tier dropping at the end boss and have this difficulty scale with the raid tiers for the whole expansion. If memory serves, this is kind of how BC did things too. You could get items from heroics and you were good to raid.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post
    When have games ever been fair? It's not fair that on my first AQ run ever the legendary dropped and I won the loot roll for it while many others who had been running it for years were left with nothing, but that's how the game works. To expect otherwise is ridiculous. Even real life isn't fair. If you continue to view loot as a means of promoting fairness I predict you'll be sorely disappointed.
    That's RNG though. That's not even remotely in the same context of what he's complaining about as far as I can tell.

  18. #2358
    Warchief Seefer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post
    When have games ever been fair? It's not fair that on my first AQ run ever the legendary dropped and I won the loot roll for it while many others who had been running it for years were left with nothing, but that's how the game works. To expect otherwise is ridiculous. Even real life isn't fair. If you continue to view loot as a means of promoting fairness I predict you'll be sorely disappointed.
    Wow, seriously man you are so off the beaten path it's sad, you really need to just stop.
    "Of all the animals, man is the only one that is cruel. He is the only one who inflicts pain for the pleasure of doing it." - Mark Twain

  19. #2359
    Quote Originally Posted by Huntardicus View Post
    I think with one or two new things to do at end game, Blizz could hit a sort of sweet spot, but one of the things needs to be worth doing as little or as much as the player wants.
    I predict they are going to remove "heroics" as there is nothing heroic about them, and have the dungeons on "normal" be the story mode, heavily scripted, advance the plot etc. and then at max level "heroics" are going to be like the new/rumored "loot run" mode coming to Diablo 3.

    More/highly randomized layouts, trash groups, pool of bosses that may be different each run (kind of like Violet Hold) but also each boss has its own pool of mechanics.

    So you might fight the same boss in two back to back runs of the same dungeon, but the layout/trash to get there will be different, you may get a healer/caster/melee trash pull the first time then a caster/caster/tank then next time, kind of like the awesome pulls in Magistar's Terrace. Then the boss itself might be the "fire" version the first time, with a DoT AoE and a ground target flame wall, then the second run the same boss is "ice" version with a AoE CC mechanic and a DoT that slows and only does damage if you stop moving etc.

    Also, these loot runs will have scaling/progressive difficulty, so you can continually challenge yourself and your group (or do an easier-mode run in a pug etc.) kind of like Fractals in GW2.

    Harder difficulty = better chance for drops, up to and including raid level, and more JP/VP drops, etc.

    I'd resub for that.

  20. #2360
    Quote Originally Posted by therayeffect View Post
    That's RNG though. That's not even remotely in the same context of what he's complaining about as far as I can tell.
    He was whining that loot was being awarded to someone who wasn't "working" as hard. RNG does the same thing, but as you pointed out, he never complained about RNG. That was my whole point. This game is not about fairness, merit, hard work, economic justice, or any of those other silly reasons players give for why casuals should be denied content and loot. It's purely for entertainment purposes.
    Quote Originally Posted by CandyCotton Marshmallows View Post
    People need to get over the gear color (and themselves). It doesn't matter, and it shouldn't matter what other players have either. Worry about your damn self. Live your life by that. If you want to concern yourself with someone else, then worry about HELPING them, not putting them down or making sure you stand out as better than them.
    Maybe the game would be better with more low DPS nice guys and fewer high DPS jerks? -- Ghostcrawler, Twitter, 6/29/13

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