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  1. #421
    Honestly, this Argument going "Buhu we need better endgame." is bullshit, but everyone things he found the big point to save the universe. Get out of your mindset for 5 seconds, attempt to see things objectively and really list what the WoW Endgame actually is. In fact, the WoW Endgame is probably the biggest of all the other MMOs which is one of the reason it still stands, and i hardly doubt this is the reason the subscribers run. There is no point denying it. Yes, it's one raid that counts after all, yes its only the same in 4 different versions but SoO is a quite allright raid with bosses that are quite different from one another with an not-bad of a lore behind it (even if i dont know when they digged that hole but nvm). So what would more Content mean to you? More raids? More Bosses to kill? I doubt it. Doing something else? Well you have quite a bit to do next to it. You can play your little economoy-game there, you can go to the brawlers guild, so on... But thats not the right thing either as you said. So what is then?

    Oh. And about the Island: The island is indeed bad to me aswell. Why do you need normal/heroic gear if you are not raiding? Well you sure dont need heroic gear but even if you are Casual-Bob you want a piece of the T-Set because of their look AT LEAST no matter how you twist and turn it and i dont see a reason to deny that. In fact, i actually liked the approach that you could get parts of your sets in WotLK by raiding, and parts via Emblems, but they completely fucked the whole system over in Pandaria, ruining it completely with the mindless isla- timless island, which has the worst system ever. Equipping your twinks? Well, guess what, im heroic raiding and my main is stuck on itemlevel 544 because nothing fucking drops and was stuck with Wristguards from TDD-Normal, since the BoAs on the Island gave me one pair of those wristguards, and with essence only produced a totally useless armorpiece with absolutely unusable stats. So you 1. have to find the right piece 2. find an essence 3. need to be lucky to get the right set of stats that even remotely fit what you need.
    Draaaaaven.

  2. #422
    Quote Originally Posted by Draknalor186 View Post
    end game content that rewards gear where you dont have to depend on other people to get your reward.. because LFR and PuGs are brutal.. since in my experiance.. Pugs just fall appart before they even start..
    But but but this is an mmo :< why don't you just play a single player game if you don't want to depend on other player? I'm sorry but in my opinion we need more reasons and causes for player interaction not less.

  3. #423
    Quote Originally Posted by Wizgar View Post
    Who cares? They can run the hardcores off and no one will even notice. The subscription blip can be passed off as a rounding error. Hardcores aren't even relevant anymore.
    Link your source of this information or shut it.

  4. #424
    Quote Originally Posted by Horizon View Post
    But but but this is an mmo :< why dont you just play a single player game if you dont want to depend on other player? Im sorry but in my opinion we need more reasons and causes for player interaction not less.
    Thats true. But putting it in a different way; It maybe not a bad idea to give you a possibility to acquire Gear over other means but "Lol im lucky" and LFR, meaning Emblems gathered by whatever-means for the reason i stated before... which basically is (i admit): QQ no lootluck.
    Draaaaaven.

  5. #425
    Quote Originally Posted by stormgust View Post
    So, care to give any examples of those games? I'll just give you one condition: The game must not rely on any form of matchmaking algorithm, because any of those does one thing: It matches schedules of different people, who do not know eachother.
    edit:
    Seems like you imposed a second condition yourself already: "leave at will" requires the game to not have any form of banlists for ending the game early.
    Well that's just a stupid restriction so I shall ignore it. But there are a few elements that make it more complicated for WoW than most
    -the average play session is very long. 2-3 hours for a raid. The only game that comes close is Civ V. Even League rarely lasts a full hour. Some games are as short as a few minutes.
    -its a big hit to lose one player midway through. Civ 5 and many other games can replace them with AIs, or you just play with fewer people, with team rebalancing if necessary.

  6. #426
    Quote Originally Posted by Saeran View Post
    I wasn't going to comment on here but you still don't live in a real world. Your 'friend' maybe able to raid as you say, but as someone whose husband works away for long periods of time, a daughter of two who has autism and a seven year old boy. On top of this I have a full-time job to hold down. You explain to me how I can ever commit to play a fixed-time raid schedule. Lack of 'time management' - your having a laugh.
    I'm wondering why a video game is even a topic of even the most miniscule importance to you to begin with, given your situation. Seriously mind boggling.
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  7. #427
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    Quote Originally Posted by ablib View Post
    I can't be tied to a schedule in a video game.
    Transfer to a large PvE realm like Illidan where they do random heroic PUGs for the newest tiers and actually get a new tier cleared before the new one comes out. And you can do it on your own time! /mindblown
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  8. #428
    Stood in the Fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyHellfire View Post
    Raiding is boring.
    Then quit wow.

  9. #429
    You had that content and you complained about it.

    What you're asking is for content that will reward you in the same fashion that normal and heroic raiding does, content where you put less amount of time and effort for an equal reward.

    There's nothing that can be done to grant you a normal or heroic like experience without downgrading the amount of effort and time required. Blizzard already did it with LFR and Flex and you apparently don't enjoy it.

  10. #430
    Quote Originally Posted by Balazzar View Post
    I know its anecdotal, but the people who try to champion "casual friendly content" the most are seemingly online 5-7 hours per day, every day.. There are normal raiders who, after dinging 90 and doing initial gearing, play 5-7 hours a week progressing on normals...
    Seconding this. When I was playing as a time-limited casual at the start of TBC I was still leveling to 70 and finishing off the last few quest zones and doing normal 5 mans when the Black Temple was released, and I didn't see it myself for 6 months or so. Did I care? Not really, I still had tons of stuff to do, and was still advancing my character.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by stormgust View Post
    If at all, the only game which you can "leave at will" is of the diablo likes. Every other of those has a endpoint, which you cannot decide on [namely the length of the game, which is random]. So unless you want to ruin the game for others, you cannot leave at will. I'm quite confident that I required the game to be fun to more than one party involved.
    Its not going to ruin my fun if one guy drops out of an FPS deathmatch, or concedes early in an RTS game. Especially if I was losing the SC2 match in question :P
    And League of Legends is one of the few that outright punishes early leavers.

  11. #431
    Quote Originally Posted by Horizon View Post
    But but but this is an mmo :< why don't you just play a single player game if you don't want to depend on other player? I'm sorry but in my opinion we need more reasons and causes for player interaction not less.
    noone interact anyway? its just que up, do the thing, leave, noone talks other then maby tacts, no hi or anything.. why woulden't i wanna be solo if thats the interaction you get?

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  12. #432
    Quote Originally Posted by topcatti View Post
    Why cant casuals raid normal, or even heroic? Really tell me. Play the game for 3 hours, 2 or 3 times a week? jesus
    This Im afraid. I know heroic raiders that only play 3 hours a night 2 times a day. OP you can't expect Blizzard to hand everything to you on a plate and feed you at the same time. They have put the tools in the game, now it's your job to seek out a casual guild that does what you want to do. If you can't find one, make one?

  13. #433
    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    And that's why MMO's are different than most multiplayer games.
    MMOs are more than raiding and 3+ hour group leveling sessions. The 1990s called, they want their Everquest design model back.
    WoW's strength was always the ability to pick up and play on your own for half an hour and still achieve something.
    In Vanilla that was leveling and rep grinding.
    In TBC you had dailies and random battlegrounds.
    Wrath and Cata had more dailies and 5man heroics.
    Panda has(from what I can tell, haven't made it there yet) LFR and a bunch of other things that the casual snobs ignore because "its not progressing their character enough".

  14. #434
    So basically what the OP is saying is that their promise to deliver different end-game content besides just raiding that allows for improving your character has failed? It's all about raiding STILL, isn't it? MoP joins the bandwagon of being but empty promises.

    And then there is also the majority of people seeing what they want in the OP's post and bashing him.

  15. #435
    Quote Originally Posted by Draknalor186 View Post
    noone interact anyway? its just que up, do the thing, leave, noone talks other then maby tacts, no hi or anything.. why woulden't i wanna be solo if thats the interaction you get?
    I know what you are saying and I know that I will never get what I want. But I think that every step this game takes towards single player / anti social - gameplay is sad.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tamerlane2 View Post
    MMOs are more than raiding and 3+ hour group leveling sessions. The 1990s called, they want their Everquest design model back.
    WoW's strength was always the ability to pick up and play on your own for half an hour and still achieve something.
    In Vanilla that was leveling and rep grinding.
    In TBC you had dailies and random battlegrounds.
    Wrath and Cata had more dailies and 5man heroics.
    Panda has(from what I can tell, haven't made it there yet) LFR and a bunch of other things that the casual snobs ignore because "its not progressing their character enough".
    Im sorry but I don't think that is the truth, you will find much better game play in single player games if you want to play for short times and achieve something.

    Wow's strength (at least in my opinion) is the opportunity to explore the world and play with other people.
    Last edited by Horizon; 2013-11-02 at 04:38 PM.

  16. #436
    Quote Originally Posted by Wizgar View Post
    The overwhelming majority of MMO players don't engage in scheduled raiding and they never have. Your unemployed poopsock 5% of the population does not define the genre. Sorry.
    Don't be silly, most of the raiders in our guild were employed. Raiding was just their equivalent of sitting down in front of the TV for a few hours after work. The only common factor is they either didn't have kids or had someone else to mind them during raids.

  17. #437
    Quote Originally Posted by Tamerlane2 View Post
    Well that's just a stupid restriction so I shall ignore it. But there are a few elements that make it more complicated for WoW than most
    -the average play session is very long. 2-3 hours for a raid. The only game that comes close is Civ V. Even League rarely lasts a full hour. Some games are as short as a few minutes.
    -its a big hit to lose one player midway through. Civ 5 and many other games can replace them with AIs, or you just play with fewer people, with team rebalancing if necessary.
    So, isn't flex+oQueue exactly what you're looking for?

  18. #438
    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    I'm wondering why a video game is even a topic of even the most miniscule importance to you to begin with, given your situation. Seriously mind boggling.
    People are allowed leisure time to do fun things. If you're housebound for long periods of time and on a budget, videogames are quite a good choice.

  19. #439
    High Overlord Lunzium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tamerlane2 View Post
    Well that's just a stupid restriction so I shall ignore it. But there are a few elements that make it more complicated for WoW than most
    -the average play session is very long. 2-3 hours for a raid. The only game that comes close is Civ V. Even League rarely lasts a full hour. Some games are as short as a few minutes.
    -its a big hit to lose one player midway through. Civ 5 and many other games can replace them with AIs, or you just play with fewer people, with team rebalancing if necessary.
    Well it just so happens that's the way it is. If you can't/don't want to put in the time to do endgame then it's on you, not the game. You can't have all games be exactly as you want. Find a game that matches all your little matchboxes and play that instead of trying to whine about this one?

  20. #440
    Quote Originally Posted by stormgust View Post
    So, isn't flex+oQueue exactly what you're looking for?
    Yes. That would seem to be an adequate solution.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Horizon View Post
    Im sorry but I don't think that is the truth, you will find much better game play in single player games if you want to play for short times and achieve something.
    Wow's strength (at least in my opinion) is the opportunity to explore the world and play with other people.
    I agree, I like those too. But in contrast to the older MMOs like Everquest and FF11(?) where you needed to be in a group to do ANYTHING, Wow let you do some stuff on your own, but let you do BETTER stuff if you grouped up with people. That was a good model, I think. Because an MMO needs a good community to survive. And right now there's little reason for me to interact with anyone to get stuff done. Which is a bit sad.

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