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  1. #581
    I dont think this game is for you if you think doing something once is accomplishing something.

  2. #582
    The Patient ujx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exuja View Post
    In general, it's thrown more times than I can count in these forums.
    Maybe because you are on a website that was primarily made based on raiding aka not casual friendly. If you are looking for a crowd of people that are more accepting to casuals, you should try warcraftpets.

    Waaah I only play 2 hours a week, I want to get the same things people who play 20+ hours a week get. WoW was built on raiding. It became a game of over 12 million subscribers because of raiding. The PVP has always been mediocre at best. All this game has going for it is raiding. When you water it down with casual tears it becomes a worse game, as the falling subs indicates. When WoW is dead and gone, people will look back and wonder what killed it. The answer will be casuals.

  3. #583
    I think Blizzard did a good job in Mop by providing tons of stuff for non-raiders to do. If I was in the same position in Catalysm, pretty much the only thing I'd do is lfr and pretty much be done with the week. Now you got lfr, flex, and bunch of solo stuff such as proving grounds and brawlers. Granted once you finish those, you will have nothing to do, it applies to any aspect of MMO, even hardcore raiding. Once you down that end game boss, the only thing they have left is farm content which usually ends pretty quick.
    If you feel like you run out of pve things to do, you swap to pvp to do somethings. If you don't like pvping, maybe swapping to a different game might suit you. Not quitting wow but filling in time with another game such as LOL or dota, whatever you might enjoy.

  4. #584
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    Simple solution. Have ilvl scale when you enter the raid ala challenge modes. No gear required. I mean besides from the fact taht people do raid and complete heroic soo in relatively little gear that really wasn't or isn't the point. You want challenge but you seek to get around that challenge in any and every way possible especially by just sheer overwhelming it with gear. Which is fine I have no problem with that but we should be honest. You aren't after challenge, you're after the accumulation of power. Everyone is to an extent. The game is very Nietzschean.

    Questing my way to the same freaking gear shouldn't invalidate anything you've done unless you actually hate doing it and only like the exclusivity of denying people the same rewards.
    I think you completely missed my point. For those who raid and only raid, farming raid bosses is what keeps us active. Do you really think we go in for hours a week killing the same bosses over and over and over again for months on end because it's fun to do that? Let me ask you this: Would it be fun for you doing the EXACT same questline over and over and over again just because it's supposed to be fun to do so? If gear was pointless, raiders would literally kill the bosses on normal, kill the bosses on heroic, and then unsub until the next raiding tier. Farming gear for the next tier is what keeps raiders active. Why do you think they added the heirloom weapons on Garrosh that scale up with you for the next 10 levels? They just gave raiders a carrot on a stick to keep them coming back instead of unsubbing.

    ^ Father and son. Winning.

  5. #585
    Quote Originally Posted by Exuja View Post
    In general, it's thrown more times than I can count in these forums.
    Well in general I think the game's social environment places this pressure on raiding that doesn't really exist in other games I've played. And if you raid, it's all about raiding. The delineation between pvp and pve isn't even all that clear, because up until recently pve trinkets were bis fpr pvp. They still might be, I don't even know anymore because I haven't pvped for the last few seasons, been pvping in GW2 and Rift.

    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    It's fucking terrible are you kidding me? It was far better in wotlk and cata. Calling it absolutely great is a joke. Seriously compared to what I had access to before. It was just so good some of you exhausted it in no time. Well that's not very casual.
    I think it's better now, running dungeons over and over again was not fun either. At least now you have options. I suppose T10 was a great tier for casual players, because you could get 4pc raid gear through badge purchases. Also, we have world bosses as a means to get gear, which is nice.

    Quote Originally Posted by nekobaka View Post
    I think it is more directed to something that is intended to be as long term as LFR. PVPers havent always been about gear progression as balance is more of the focus and are used to gearing up somewhat fast and just continue playing. Blizzard has to this point killed most of the gear progression in large part for the more serious PVPers. Back in Cata the five man heroic gear progression was far faster than WotLK and players who would VP cap week after week would get their gear and complain about being bored and didnt have the mentality of the PVPers who largely play for fun. Blizzard is trying to keep those who play for fun and those who get their fun from continued gear progression and hasnt been going so well.
    Well pvp progression stopped being fun for me when pve gear became better for world pvp than pvp gear. It might have improved battleground experiences for some, but it was an inelegant solution.

    Rift has a few means of progression at end game that I like. It has the planar attunement system, where you get points/perks through xp for completing raids, dungeons, daily quests, etc...it's account wide and gives you some nice boosts to spell power, hp, mount speed, walk speed, swim speed etc. And then for pvpers there is a conquest system where you improve your character's power by participating in large scale pvp events (conquest...somewhat similar to Wintergrasp during wrath). I could see planar attunement or a similar system working well in a game like WoW.

    Also, WoW really needs dynamic events, imo it really keeps the game's world alive, particularly in old world zones.

  6. #586
    Quote Originally Posted by Hctaz View Post
    Hmmm personally I feel like they need to make more solo-able stuff that rewards cool items instead of better gear persay. The warlock green fire questline comes to mind. Green fire is REALLY cool and it can only be obtained by putting solo work into it. I wouldn't mind having solo content reward vanity gear, cool mounts, neat effects, etc. I just don't want it to give rewards that invalidate certain aspects of group work such as rewarding on par raiding or pvp gear.
    And you have it exactly the opposite. Vanity rewrds, titles and cosmetic crap is exactly what is needed to be given to raiders so that gear wealth accumulation doesn't result in everything being tuned so that it at least poses some challenge to the very best players in the very best gear leaving truly casual and new max level players attempting to slog mobs on Timeless Isle in gear 50 plus ilvls below them.

    If raiding is as fun and exciting as the devs claim it is, then it can stand on it's own merits and not need to have the best power rewards in game locked behind it. The reality is that it is not as fun nor as exciting or enticing as raiders and the devs believe and would utterly and completely fall apart without offering the best rewards which is why even LFR isn't allowed any sort of gear competition for weapons, trinkets and tier armor.

    Up to the day raiding is put up against other forms of content for equal rewards, you can't know what percentage of raiding players raid because they like it and the ones who do it because their bribed into it for gear. This test will never happen because more than likely the devs know it would end raiding as mainstay content and they very much like making raids.

  7. #587
    Pandaren Monk Aeula's Avatar
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    I just wish flex was more pug friendly, ican never find a group >.< i really want that loom axe.


    13/11/2014: Remember this date, for it is the date warlords of draenor fucked up the servers and proved blizzard can't do launches.

  8. #588
    Quote Originally Posted by ujx View Post
    Maybe because you are on a website that was primarily made based on raiding aka not casual friendly. If you are looking for a crowd of people that are more accepting to casuals, you should try warcraftpets.
    I wouldnt really call it something casual beside being a great resource for those who wont want to spend their own time of trial and error along with grinding to learn the things just like most players who visit other types of guides to save time or learn how to be a better player. I was playing around 5 hours a week in Cata and saw current raid content by way of PuGs while those who did seven heroics every week and then complaining about nothing to do spent more time in the game than I. The kinds of players who tend to complain about time are not the 2 hour a week players, it is more along the lines of players who spend as much or more time than raiders do raiding and just use it as an excuse to mask other issues.

  9. #589
    Dreadlord Steampunk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stomination View Post
    Or the assumption of what hardcore is. There are very few hardcore raiders. And then there are quite a few raiders who still have Soo halfway cleared.
    Yes. Exactly.

    Much love for Frank, btw.

    I'm an RHPS shadowcast performer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeula View Post
    I just wish flex was more pug friendly, ican never find a group >.< i really want that loom axe.
    I agree, but if Flex was any more accessible, it might as well be a setting for LFR.

    Actually... that may not be the most awful concept.
    Quote Originally Posted by Basmothel
    Lacking ammo, the forum troll darts into the realm of personal insults and doomsaying; the most primitive means of gaining attention from its peers.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vyadore View Post
    You know something, none of us ruined the game. We make it better. And so do most of you.

  10. #590
    Quote Originally Posted by Exuja View Post
    In general, it's thrown more times than I can count in these forums.
    So you come into a thread without reading and just expect people to bash casuals? From my point of view its these self-entitled casual players who are killing the game, the way it comes off is that these casual players just want to be bashed.

    Normal raiding seems like a pretty challenging, rewarding endgame for players who don't want to spend too much time playing the game. In my experience when casually raiding; the raid nights were very flexible, the fights went down as expected and loot was distributed quite fairly (need > greed, the same old casual system thats been around for 20 years).

    What more are you looking for? I'm not sure what kind of super exhausting life you must lead to not be able to set aside 3 hours on 3 fairly flexible days to raid, do content and get loot. If thats not the kind of thing then why are you in this game to begin with? its a game created on the foundations of PvE content, which is primarily raiding. The way the game has progressed now there is alot of stuff to do ingame that isn't raiding that rewards gear, casual players asked for it a long time ago and they have it now, yet they want more "things" to do?

    What else is there? This game has one of the highest amounts of content compared to other games that have been released, ever.

    I've raided pretty casually during my lifetime in WoW, and never found any need to play anymore than I wanted to or could. Even if you can only set aside 9 hours to play a week, its do-able. You just need to go and do it.

    People who are suggesting using the Challenge Mode system of scaling ilvl down during raids are being completely hypocritical. You say you want to feel like your character progresses, yet you wish to adjust the main system which is used to show your progression? making character progression useless as a whole?

    /rant

  11. #591
    Mechagnome Kinkiey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antherios View Post
    Yeah, this thread doesnt surprise me.

    We are currently on the most casual friendly times for World of Warcraft since its inception. You literally have 2 raid difficulties tailored for your needs.

    LFR: Solid 1 or 2 on a 1/10 scale o difficulty, and has the advantage of schedule flexibility.
    Flex: A step up in difficulty, you have to create your own group and tie down to an schedule.

    So what do you suggest that Blizzard needs to develop?
    Because according to your post, you want more challenging content (you want harder and longer content) that rewards meaningful things "not mounts/tabards/titles", straight up gear. And that doesn't require you to tie down to a schedule or excessive grinding.

    Do you realize how incredible hard and the amount of resources that this would take to develop? To create this kind of content just for a bunch of people?

    What has this game come down to??. This is exactly why Blizzard needs to slow down on the casual approach. Its good that they take the time to actually create content for them and make them a part of the game. But once you go down this path, casuals just keep asking for more and more. Soon they will be mad that they don't get all the gear, mounts and titles by just playing 2 hours a week whenever they want.

    OP, this is an MMO, if you want better gear and rewards, you have to sit down and play more. No way around it. If not, you can play an RPG like Skyrim, Fallout, etc.
    Just this basicly....

  12. #592
    they should just make all the raids have a flex version. scale all the gear from mc all the way to like... whenever. that way theres tons of content, and you can do it at any level with however many people.

  13. #593
    Quote Originally Posted by hyphnos View Post
    And you have it exactly the opposite. Vanity rewrds, titles and cosmetic crap is exactly what is needed to be given to raiders so that gear wealth accumulation doesn't result in everything being tuned so that it at least poses some challenge to the very best players in the very best gear leaving truly casual and new max level players attempting to slog mobs on Timeless Isle in gear 50 plus ilvls below them.

    If raiding is as fun and exciting as the devs claim it is, then it can stand on it's own merits and not need to have the best power rewards in game locked behind it. The reality is that it is not as fun nor as exciting or enticing as raiders and the devs believe and would utterly and completely fall apart without offering the best rewards which is why even LFR isn't allowed any sort of gear competition for weapons, trinkets and tier armor.

    Up to the day raiding is put up against other forms of content for equal rewards, you can't know what percentage of raiding players raid because they like it and the ones who do it because their bribed into it for gear. This test will never happen because more than likely the devs know it would end raiding as mainstay content and they very much like making raids.
    -blink- I don't think people are reading my posts. I raid because it's fun to kill NEW bosses, not farm old ones. There are multiple reasons why people raid, but for me it's about the NEW bosses. Like I said, people would raid normal modes, extend raid lockouts if they don't clear it, and then do the same for heroic until the place is done and then unsub. I mean if they gave cosmetic rewards that might entice some people to farm but for me personally the raiding gear looks like poop lately. I'd be a one and done.

    ^ Father and son. Winning.

  14. #594
    Quote Originally Posted by Hctaz View Post
    I think you completely missed my point.
    Total waste of time.
    Quote Originally Posted by hyphnos View Post
    And you have it exactly the opposite.
    Bullshit strong rewards have always been a driving motivation behind playing this game. There is no further character progression. Equal rewards for equal effort.
    Relative power from 2s bonus, ordos gear and timeless isle gear plus legendary cloak is fine against the world for practically no effort at all.

  15. #595
    Over 9000! Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hctaz View Post
    Do you really think we go in for hours a week killing the same bosses over and over and over again for months on end because it's fun to do that?
    Apparently not. Makes you wonder what the appeal of raiding is then.

    If gear was pointless, raiders would literally kill the bosses on normal, kill the bosses on heroic, and then unsub until the next raiding tier.
    No they would learn to kill the bosses on normal and not simple over gear them, then do the same on heroic and the unsub until next raiding tier which they do anyway.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Celista View Post
    I think it's better now, running dungeons over and over again was not fun either. At least now you have options. I suppose T10 was a great tier for casual players, because you could get 4pc raid gear through badge purchases. Also, we have world bosses as a means to get gear, which is nice.
    You don't have options. Everything just leads to raiding. Running dungeons at least gave me the option of aquiring fairly powerful gear without ever stepping foot in a raid. The options today are basically raid or die and theirs nothing that offers any alternative to that. It's lip service to options.

    Look I'm all for other things rewarding valour, I think that's a good change and would like to see it stick around. I'm not for raiding being the only means of acquiring the most powerful gear in this game. Or hell even the semi most powerful gear in this game. Are you kidding me? I can't even by LFR or tier pieces from valour anymore. Never mind what they did to the justice points. It's bone dead fucking stupid.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by hyphnos View Post
    And you have it exactly the opposite. Vanity rewrds, titles and cosmetic crap is exactly what is needed to be given to raiders so that gear wealth accumulation doesn't result in everything being tuned so that it at least poses some challenge to the very best players in the very best gear leaving truly casual and new max level players attempting to slog mobs on Timeless Isle in gear 50 plus ilvls below them.

    If raiding is as fun and exciting as the devs claim it is, then it can stand on it's own merits and not need to have the best power rewards in game locked behind it. The reality is that it is not as fun nor as exciting or enticing as raiders and the devs believe and would utterly and completely fall apart without offering the best rewards which is why even LFR isn't allowed any sort of gear competition for weapons, trinkets and tier armor.

    Up to the day raiding is put up against other forms of content for equal rewards, you can't know what percentage of raiding players raid because they like it and the ones who do it because their bribed into it for gear. This test will never happen because more than likely the devs know it would end raiding as mainstay content and they very much like making raids.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  16. #596
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    Apparently not. Makes you wonder what the appeal of raiding is then.
    getting gear and slaying mobs. Hard concept to grasp I know.

  17. #597
    Over 9000! Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hctaz View Post
    -blink- I don't think people are reading my posts. I raid because it's fun to kill NEW bosses, not farm old ones.
    I agree so let's take the gear off bosses and you can be on your way to killing new ones. You'd be done you say? Well so much for the appeal and staying power of raiding...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by cFortyfive View Post
    getting gear and slaying mobs. Hard concept to grasp I know.
    You mean the same appeal of dungeons? HFJDKSFHJDKS NOOOOO REALLY??? Guess what folks EVERYBODY wants to get gear and slay mobs they just don't necesarilly want to do it in the same format or under the same requirements that you do... Now factor that out and what's the appeal of raiding?
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  18. #598
    Quote Originally Posted by Anarchor View Post
    A 5-man dungeon endgame model with a tier-set system, complex crafting and rare mechanics added (certain ingredients only dropping from certain mobs and bosses at a low ratio). Instead of silly challenge modes add a system like in Diablo3 where you can keep increasing the difficulty of the dungeons which increases the dropchance and quality of gear and mats required to craft useful gear or to get access to higher tiersets.

    Something like that.
    And the folks who complain now will continue to, saying that the mats are perceived as mandatory, and my god you're forcing me to do content i don't like, and goodness gracious it's unfair that players who spend more time in game get to acquire these quicker, and now I have nothing to do because I've valor capped for the week via chain LFD running, and it's only Thursday, wtf blizz gg.
    Benevolence is a luxury for the strong - Wrathion
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  19. #599
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post

    You mean the same appeal of dungeons? HFJDKSFHJDKS NOOOOO REALLY??? Guess what folks EVERYBODY wants to get gear and slay mobs they just don't necesarilly want to do it in the same format or under the same requirements that you do... Now factor that out and what's the appeal of raiding?
    If you'd spend a quarter of the you use posting here to play the game you wouldn't have any complaints about gear. Also I heard diablo drops gear and doesn't even require a subscription. It still accepts even cash !

  20. #600
    SCREW the casuals, they made every1 leave the game in the beginning. i want casuals to play something else, like Sims or something. give me back the old wow.....

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