1. #1341
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    Is my sub status really relevant? If I had a sub wouldn't you just tell me to sit down shut up and play?
    and there is an issue with that? sorry I don't like people who bitch just to hear themselves talk. the casual agenda is nothing but an attempt to make themselves seem not as bad as they are.

  2. #1342
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post
    To remain competitive in Brawlers guild. So that you can clear the area around the node you're about to gather fast enough to prevent others from ninjaing it. So that a dailies hub can be cleared in 15 minutes instead of 20. So that you can have that addictive sense that your character is constantly growing stronger and will continue to grow stronger if you stick to some kind of regimen. That latter point is pretty much the entire appeal of a MMO. There are plenty of reasons to want better gear. Why do you deserve better gear just because you're too scared to fight bosses without 9-24 other people to back you up?
    Because raiding is the core of an mmorpg I'm sorry, but you're not what the genre was made for if you're too bad to raid. I'm done calling it casual because even casuals can do normal and flex mode without a schedule.

  3. #1343
    The Insane Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blizzguy99 View Post
    and there is an issue with that? sorry I don't like people who bitch just to hear themselves talk. the casual agenda is nothing but an attempt to make themselves seem not as bad as they are.
    Which on your part is an attempt to silence all criticism because no "agenda" really exists. I just give my opinion on the matter as I am want to do. My sub status is irrelevant and you can't know what it is anyway. Maybe as we were talking I just bought a month or maybe not. It's Heisenbergs cat.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  4. #1344
    I am Murloc! Seefer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Otiswhitaker View Post
    Well, yes, but he also said 5 mans, too! (Though wanting that out of purely solo content is a bit insane, I agree. Though, I'd personally love to see some rewarding solo content, just not THAT rewarding, considering how they neutered the leveling experience, which used to be the best solo content. I want a "BRING BACK COMPELLING LEVELING EXPERIENCE!" campaign, dag nabbit!)
    I've already stated I would love more interesting questing, challenging 5 mans with dungeon set gear, world bosses like TBC and Classic (MoP was ok for that but not on the same level), class quests and to add more to what I would like.....

    Less character homogenization
    No cross realm anything
    Elite quests that require more than 1 person to do
    Patterns available only in dungeons
    Crafting epics to mean something
    A better crafting system (FF 14 has it about right)
    Housing (Crafters can make stuff for housing)
    TRUE BoA gear like any realm any faction

    Those are just some
    History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people - Martin Luther King, Jr.

  5. #1345
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    Quote Originally Posted by purebalance View Post
    Because raiding is the core of an mmorpg I'm sorry, but you're not what the genre was made for if you're too bad to raid. I'm done calling it casual because even casuals can do normal and flex mode without a schedule.
    http://youtu.be/pWdd6_ZxX8c

    The CORE of an MMORPG is you know... an RPG in a massively multiplayer online environment.

    All my years in UO, I never raided. In EverQuest, I did a lot of stuff that didn't involve raiding. WoW is one of the only games I've ever felt compelled to raid, in order to progress.
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    Lacking ammo, the forum troll darts into the realm of personal insults and doomsaying; the most primitive means of gaining attention from its peers.
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    You know something, none of us ruined the game. We make it better. And so do most of you.

  6. #1346
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    Do you honestly think that's constructive? I mean telling people to leave is fine but can you recognize that if enough people do leave significant changes will be made? Nobody leaving is begging for anything they simple leave and if they are so motivated give feedback.

    - - - Updated - - -

    No that's exactly what it means. They had a perfectly fine casual model. It's been largely obliterated in the interest of serving raids. Theirs trying and then theirs half assed giving a shit. Of course the argument being made is that no matter what they do nothing will sate casuals but that is A. Unfounded and unprovable and B. Really fucking bad for business.
    No it is proven over and over again casuals are never happy....do you even read what you type?

  7. #1347
    The Insane Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blizzguy99 View Post
    No it is proven over and over again casuals are never happy....do you even read what you type?
    Really? Has this been proven? Where can I read the paper proving this? Yes I read what I type. Since we cannot all agree on even a definition of casual I find it extremely hard to believe that we can also then categorically state that each and everyone of them will never be satisfied. As a casual in Cataclysm I was mostly satisfied. As a casual through part of wrath I was mostly satisfied.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  8. #1348
    The Lightbringer Otiswhitaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    Not with the mist talent tree. The lvling experience while quick is pretty shit in mists actually.
    The leveling experience has been shit long before MoP. It was best pre-cata.

  9. #1349
    Quote Originally Posted by Anarchor View Post
    I feel like Captain Obvious when making this thread, but the game right now? It's shit. Not just normal shit, but pure shite.

    LFR? There's no fun in LFR. You run through it once to see the content... and next week you cancel your subscription again until the next raidpatch. In fact I didn't even bother doing LFR either for the last patch, since I already know it's just going to be a huge timedrain of mashing my DPS buttons on an easy boss that takes too long to drop dead.

    Timeless Isle, Proving Grounds, Brawler's Guild? Irrelevant content. I might be a casual, but that doesn't mean that I want to do challenging content that doesn't reward anything. I still like to feel my character growing stronger and earning rewards for the challenges that are offered to me.

    If Blizzard doesn't manage to add an endgame to the next expansion which offers the same excitement and rewards as normal or heroic raiding, but for casual players, who just want to play when they feel like it, then this will be the expansion that will cause the entire ship to sink.

    Edit:
    One of the things I'd also like to point at is the fact that I used the words: "Casual exciting" in the title instead of "casual friendly".

    I think the difference is very important, because yes, people are right MoP is the most casual friendly ever, but is it casual exciting? Nope. And that is where the problem lies.
    How frakn easy you need this to be?

  10. #1350
    Quote Originally Posted by purebalance View Post
    I've raided with plenty of people who watched their kids while raiding. Either having them on their lap or just in arms reach. You are just using the kid as an excuse plain and simple.
    That's pretty funny. As a father of two, I can tell you that you're not "watching" the kids when you raid. You can be available to the kids, if your raid is willing to take you with the understanding that you will potentially wipe them at any time, but you're not able to watch them. I didn't even play MMOs until my kids were both old enough to keep themselves occupied for a while. There is no way that a lap child or a child who is actually going to stay within reach is old enough for that.

    If you want to get an idea of how well you can watch kids while raiding check out the first episode of The Guild starting at 1:58:

    Quote Originally Posted by CandyCotton Marshmallows View Post
    People need to get over the gear color (and themselves). It doesn't matter, and it shouldn't matter what other players have either. Worry about your damn self. Live your life by that. If you want to concern yourself with someone else, then worry about HELPING them, not putting them down or making sure you stand out as better than them.
    Maybe the game would be better with more low DPS nice guys and fewer high DPS jerks? -- Ghostcrawler, Twitter, 6/29/13

  11. #1351
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    Really? Has this been proven? Where can I read the paper proving this? Yes I read what I type. Since we cannot all agree on even a definition of casual I find it extremely hard to believe that we can also then categorically state that each and everyone of them will never be satisfied. As a casual in Cataclysm I was mostly satisfied. As a casual through part of wrath I was mostly satisfied.
    and nothing you infer is fact....the game has plenty of casual content....nothing you say is correct. where is my sheet of proof as you ask of me....but just like a typical casual your word is always right and everyone else needs proof.....lolololololol get a clue

  12. #1352
    The Insane Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Otiswhitaker View Post
    The leveling experience has been shit long before MoP. It was best pre-cata.
    Well I mean except for the revamp yea I guess. The trade they made to the talent points in favour of end game customizability has certainly hampered lvling rewards.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  13. #1353
    The Lightbringer Otiswhitaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seefer View Post
    I've already stated I would love more interesting questing, challenging 5 mans with dungeon set gear, world bosses like TBC and Classic (MoP was ok for that but not on the same level), class quests and to add more to what I would like.....

    Less character homogenization
    No cross realm anything
    Elite quests that require more than 1 person to do
    Patterns available only in dungeons
    Crafting epics to mean something
    A better crafting system (FF 14 has it about right)
    Housing (Crafters can make stuff for housing)
    TRUE BoA gear like any realm any faction

    Those are just some
    Aside from no cross realm anything, I agree with all of this.

  14. #1354
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    Quote Originally Posted by blizzguy99 View Post
    and nothing you infer is fact....the game has plenty of casual content....nothing you say is correct. where is my sheet of proof as you ask of me....but just like a typical casual your word is always right and everyone else needs proof.....lolololololol get a clue
    Ignore him, he is on my ignore list, he just likes to talk to make himself sound smart but in reality it is quite the opposite.
    History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people - Martin Luther King, Jr.

  15. #1355
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    Quote Originally Posted by blizzguy99 View Post
    and nothing you infer is fact....the game has plenty of casual content....nothing you say is correct. where is my sheet of proof as you ask of me....but just like a typical casual your word is always right and everyone else needs proof.....lolololololol get a clue
    The developers state casual engagement is low. The casual content may "exist" in the game but ask yourself how satisfied you would be if raiding or whatever hardcore activity you enjoy afforded you little to no character/power advancement and simple was. Nobody is in favour of taking gear out of raids but the casual activities don't award gear as well or as strong as in raids and casuals are expected to be happy with that. Now you say HOW ENTITLED..
    Last edited by Glorious Leader; 2013-11-04 at 11:14 PM.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  16. #1356
    I am Murloc! Seefer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Otiswhitaker View Post
    Aside from no cross realm anything, I agree with all of this.
    Honestly there really is no need for cross realm anything especially with the virtual realms, heck WOTLK had LFD but people chose not to use it because it wasn't cross realm, I think it would bring back more of the community to do away with all the cross realm crap especially with everything I just listed.
    History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people - Martin Luther King, Jr.

  17. #1357
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    Do you honestly think that's constructive? I mean telling people to leave is fine but can you recognize that if enough people do leave significant changes will be made? Nobody leaving is begging for anything they simple leave and if they are so motivated give feedback.

    - - - Updated - - -



    No that's exactly what it means. They had a perfectly fine casual model. It's been largely obliterated in the interest of serving raids. Theirs trying and then theirs half assed giving a shit. Of course the argument being made is that no matter what they do nothing will sate casuals but that is A. Unfounded and unprovable and B. Really fucking bad for business.
    Why force yourself into a situation that makes you unhappy? Yes it is constructive to quit things that make you unhappy. It tells the business that they no longer make your life more enjoyable. If they do change that is up to them and not up to the consumer. Ok genius then disprove the fact you can't please everyone. Disprove you can't be everything to everyone.

  18. #1358
    The Lightbringer Otiswhitaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seefer View Post
    Honestly there really is no need for cross realm anything especially with the virtual realms, heck WOTLK had LFD but people chose not to use it because it wasn't cross realm, I think it would bring back more of the community to do away with all the cross realm crap especially with everything I just listed.
    Well, I sort of agree, but they'd have to really up the ante on rolling out virtual realms.

  19. #1359
    The Insane Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barnabas View Post
    Why force yourself into a situation that makes you unhappy? Yes it is constructive to quit things that make you unhappy. It tells the business that they no longer make your life more enjoyable. If they do change that is up to them and not up to the consumer. Ok genius then disprove the fact you can't please everyone. Disprove you can't be everything to everyone.
    Nobody is forcing themselves into a situation. I left the game when I wasn't happy and I leave feedback here and in other places. However telling folks to leave the game is not really workable design criteria for the developers. Nor does it really add anything constructive to the discussion. It's a dead end because well people do exactly that. Ultimately it's not up to them wether or not they change, it's up to the demands of the business and the market and all that crap. It's up to them HOW the game changes and how they respond to the market. I mean if they want to keep theirs jobs and making money and all that.

    Casuals are not everyone. They are a fairly large majority of the player base however they are not everyone so the question you threw back in my face isn't equivalent or relevant.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  20. #1360
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barnabas View Post
    You really do like to come back with unfounded arguments. Just because their reaching out hasn't been good enough for you doesn't mean they aren't trying. The point I was making about raiders is that they enjoy raiding. What casuals like is so diverse. It's really hit or miss. Seems like more miss though with the comments in this thread. If the game is that bad then go find another one that gives you the experience that you want without you having to beg for it.
    I think there's a lot of truth in this.

    The casual playerbase is so diverse, no single content type is really going to cut it. Some players love Brawler's Guild, some hate it. Some players love scenarios, some hate them. Some players love daily quests, some hate them. Raiding is counted here, too. Ultimately, I think it's most compelling to look at the game and its growth prior to Mists where there has undoubtedly been the highest number of things to do. Clearly, it's not about cramming in as many content types as possible, and more about how deep the content is to players.

    This is where both heroic raiding and LFR have their problem. They're the outside edge in an extremely bloated raiding system that now has a needless four difficulty levels, which is endemic of a greater issue. Namely, Blizzard have tried to capture too many people in single types of content by using difficulty modes as a means to that end. The game doesn't need LFR and, honestly, it doesn't need a full heroic tier. Hard mode bosses, where it makes sense, are fine. The snag is that lesser skilled or new players are coming in on the ground floor of LFR and then looking up to see a huge number of bosses they're going to have to gear through a ridiculous four times.

    Is it any wonder they're saying "screw that"?

    Unfortunately, the rest of the game is simply losing all its depth. Talent trees have been gutted, professions have been fast-tracked, the five-man experience has been neutered, PvP is a complete mess and levelling is nothing but an un-enjoyable timesink. All the things that used to be good for more casual players have been put on the back burner so that raids can be made to suit the needs of only one group of people.

    For me, I've been looking at the PvP system of gearing and thinking that there's really something in that. Imagine all gear was currency-based, and said currency could be farmed in any content you like. Then, at a certain rating (clearing a full raid or finishing all of the challenge mode dungeons), higher item level rewards become available to you. In this way, you literally are gearing up by playing the game the way you want, but the best rewards are still reserved for those clearing raids.

    Personally, I love the visual effect of going into an arena match and seeing someone in their special rating colours. It has an immediate impact. I can't think of a real reason why it wouldn't work for PvE.
    'This community deserves an apology'.
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