Last edited by Ishamaelronin; 2013-11-02 at 03:18 PM.
However, that kind of makes MMORPG PvE content the unique snowflake among most multiplayer games. I'm not sure there's anything inherently wrong with that, and people whining about it comes off like people complaining about something like the Demon's Souls or Dark Souls games being too hard.
the problem is following: the game went from "few, very motivated people play it all day as a fulltime job" to "many people want to play it as a hobby, just play around"
i think raids and difficult group content have a place in that game still. there are still many folks around investing much time into the game. (classical target locations are raids, heroic raids, heroic scenario maybe, challenge mode dungeons)
the second group is the casuals, which make most players now, but with far less "time played per day". they want solo/pair content, which is somehow fun, amusing, not tooo hard, and storylike. something to get your time round with. (classical target locations are: daily quests, things like the timeless isle, maybe heroic dungeons (but not more than a few per day) and scenarios and heroic scenarios.)
the problem is the iteration within these groups, but i dont see why there HAS to be and iteration from one group into the other. let raiders raid and get their ultrarare gear and let other people run things like timeless isle. the only important thing is: the casual content has to be fun without endgame raid gear, which automatically leads to "its boring for raiders"
so blizzard decided to not make a to large canyon in gearing between those two contents, thats why raiders dont get that better gear anymore like back in times.
one thing i observed at myself was, that i kind of like "startrek online" very much, because you can do things alone OR in a group, you can raid, or not but youll never loose to much connection with other players, cause while equip is still important, its really about skill more and "when to use your buffs" then to use them asap.
i think "gear" has become TOOOOOOOOO important in wow, skill isnt needed as soon as you somehow got to some decent 500ilvl. in sto you can be geared max with much investment, but you can still really suck at the game, when you donno what you do within yout tacship.
what i personally dislike most in wow now is, that sucess is 90% about gear, and 99% of that 90% about the weapon you are having. (beein a retpaladin player of course) you can play aas correct as you want, until you dont have a wepon over 463ilvl your char will defenitely suck at the isle, cause the dps is TOOOO low, thus bringing you into much more trouble (causem obs live long enough to do heavy dmg twince instead of once)
wow is somehow getting to ... un-chilling. its somehow more like beeing at work, than "logging in just having a fun hours or two" cause you cant have FUN without proper gear anymore.
that all went wrong with the balancing and the surroundings these balances keep happening. things like the timeless isle somehow hit very hard on "weaknesses of certain classes or even playstile concepts" (for example "melees" on the isle) then the outcry starts because in those very very "unforgiving" contents you really have more frustration than fun with your class, couse every minor fail leads into death. thats not how "challenging" should be defined. tI defined challenging as. make one mistake and die, play range or tank to reduce danger and fight minutes with mobs. - that is just not fun.
i like the isle for the part of equip giveaway, but i really dont enjoy it playing it. it was do "demanding" (as i said, make one mistake and ultimately unevitable die)as solocontent for an evening after work. esp some rares i dont touch anymore because they raise more repaircosts that they are worth (alsways talking as a melee-only player. my holypaladin never dies on that isle btw, not because a healer, but because he is capable of RANGE ...)
i think in the future expensions blizzard must re-thing the class-roles and playstiles, melee, meleetank, range, rangecaster, healer, in order to make content, that doesnt "fuck" certain playstiles much heavier than others.
lets say that: for the fact that melees got fucked this hard on the isle, taking that much more damage, they must either have all -50% dmg inc (as for beeing melee and not ranged) or must have 30-50% more live than corresponding healers and ranged classes. since all classes now are somehow same in lifepool and armor and dmg reduce, noone should take more or less dmg. - i think idea is stupid, and that resulted solely from pvp complaints. (that all classes now have same lifepool at same ilvl)
i think melees should generally a) take less damage than ranged as a modifier or b) have more live than ranged and casters. why? because they are in a constant damagezone while casters/ranged are not or posses pets to counter that. while tanks should have the possibility to acrtively reduce dmg further (so give all melees a 30% reduced dmg modifier, and tanks get more "active" mitigation as "beeing tank")
i think that is most needed for the game. rethink classes within! the content. its worth nothing if a class is balanced in numbers, but then gets fucked by the content that heavily favors ranged and "i have a tank pet" classes.
Also, all of the game types you listed rely heavily on matchmaking system.
People who complain about 'casuals' need to also remember that a huge subscription base in WoW is formed by these type of players nowadays. Take these away by telling them they should 'go play another game' would influence the income and hence the future of WoW.
I don't give a shit about not always seeing the latest content, but please don't tell me what game I want to play.
Benevolence is a luxury for the strong - Wrathion
Plox. I got your plox right fucking here. - Animalhouse
I still prefer seeing Thrall rather than blood in my urine, that doesnt make him a good character. - Verdugo
"Raiding is too HARD" = Blizzard offers LFR and content so easy the slowest click player in the universe can complete it.
"LFR is not a challenge"= Blizzard includes SOME of the mechanics involved in real raiding yet balances it with including a reward for failure (determination buff).
"I don't have time for an organized raid group" and "there is nobody that raids on my server and I am cheep" = Blizzard offers Flex and the ability to do CURRENT CONTENT cross server.
At every turn casual players complain that the game does not cater to them yet when blizzard basically bends over backwards to feed their entitlement they just continue to make complaints based on how the game is not adapted to their individual whim.
There is no bad RNG only bad L2P
Well TBH... if you think that:
-Raiding is boring
-LFR isnt fun at all
-PvP is frustrating
-Questing is stupid
-Leveling takes too long
-Doing Proving Grounds or Brawler Guild sucks because it doesn't improve your character
-AND Outdoor Content like Timeless isle is irrelevant content
... then you should just stop playing MMOs because i dont know what else a MMO should offer.
I really hope blizzard will get it some day that it is better to drop 2-3mio subscribers and make the game more appealing to the people who actually do the content that is offered instead of just standing around, hoping that they get loot from doing nothing...
Last edited by Liebchen; 2013-11-02 at 03:33 PM.
That's a weak argument, You just can't manage the time, I personally know a guy who works as an OR Tech, has a wife and 3 kids (All Toddlers), and took Courses in College, and yet still found the time to Raid Heroics, why? Because he knew how to manage his time. Obligatory "Inb4 Bad Worker/husband/dad/student" comment, just because you raid, doesn't automatically mean every other aspect of your life suffers. H Raiding =/= Putting in Method/Blood Legion Race for World First Hours.
Last edited by Wildberry; 2013-11-02 at 03:32 PM.
Then again, they will not allow the game to drop to anywhere near 1 millions subs. It's blizzard we're talking about, high standards, quality products. They lost their way - in my humble - in the last 2 years with Wow and DIII being shockingly bad, but they will bounce back and have a buffer up their sleeves with Hearthstone.
Oh and this Blizzcon will be something special and Exp V will be the magnet of all dead subscriptions to go back into Azeroth. Not all, but a lot. Perhaps.
First, let's establish that casual does not equate to 'bad', but a different intensity on how you approach gaming in general.
Now, let us remember this isn't sold and marketed as a raiding only game.
Some casuals do raid normal and/or heroic. Some don't care to do so. Some can't commit to a strict raiding schedule. You'll find there are nearly as many reasons as there are people.
Let us also establish that raiding normal and/or heroic is more than a few hours commitment (on a tight schedule) a few times a week. If you are to raid in that environment, you are also expected to commit much more of your time in the preparation. So, let us say you have the 3 hours 3x a week schedule. Well, you need to be logged in 30+ minutes before a raid, and possibly have the run go 30+ minutes after. Now, for most people, on those 3 nights; they are going to spend all their free time just being on time and possibly staying late for the raid. 4 hours is a large commitment (think about work, showers, life's necessities, etc.) of that day's free time. Now, if they have any other time during the week to schedule in playing; they must now work on earning gold ... for repairs, for flasks, for gems, for enchants, for pots; or work on the equivalent professions. Either way, it will most likely take up that entire day's time commitment to be prepared for raiding.
So now, you have a person who wants to play 'casually' (non-intense commitment) dedicated 4 full days of the play time schedule outside work and responsibilities, to commit to work and responsibilities in game. They may not have an extra 3 days a week to play the game. So their whole play time is raid and raid prep.
I know that is a somewhat strong example; but it is not out of the realm of possibility, nor do I think that stretches too much away from what one should expect.
Think of casual as someone who wants to be able to jump in and play the game how they want, when they want. That is not unreasonable; especially in a sub based game. That also doesn't mean they should get everything handed to them; but it means they need a portion of the game designed for that type of engagement. We have systems designed for people who have extremely dedicated takes and commitments; there needs to be something to fill in for what is most likely the majority of the players (just compare total numbers in wowprogress vs sub numbers from quarterly reports and it will tell you how few are in the dedicated raider camp).
You try to down play the actual time commitment. it is not 6-9 hours a week to raid; it is more like 16 hours for the example you presented; and it takes up 4 full days of someone's play time.
You also ignore the fact that some people can only play an hour or two at a time, and may be able to play every day though. They still love the game. They are still adding to the profit margin of the company so they can continue to invest in it. Instead of being adversarial, you could be empathic and try to come up with solutions to the greater problem.
Using their own system, based off of other games experiments of dynamic content; they could create something that could have more of a pick up and leave feeling that some require without pissing on the established paradigm.
In another thread, I mentioned a way to do this in WoW. Say they decide they want to rebuild SMC and fix Exo. They set up dynamic events including gathering turn ins from cloth to herbs to leather, kill/collects, and then you also get invasions, escorts, supporting offensive strikes, etc that happen as world/zone events. Have people out in the world, working together. The reward system would be a combination of pets, mounts, vanity, and 'world' pve gear with set bonuses that would be specifically helpful to world pve (mount speed bonuses, run speed bonuses, cd resets, etc) that would not be active in instanced content (dungeons, raids, arenas, bgs). You could set the ilvl around lfr/flex for the easily gathered items, then make some stuff much harder to get both time and difficulty wise fit in the normal to somewhere under heroic raid ilvl. Put this behind intense group activities with tough mobs or an occasional zone boss that can be failed that either doesn't always spawn, or you have to complete a large set of objectives that makes it possible to not always finish unless people organize (and would have to scale to people actively partaking in the zone events).
That is just an example of something that could be geared towards a casual player that cannot commit 16 hours a week to be a halfway decent raider, or that cannot commit 3-4 hours in one sitting (for health/personal/family reasons). It doesn't negate raiding or pvp progression, it is separate and just a little under equal to let the raiders keep their egos. It allows player to actively participate in a coming in game change, a way to implement world changes while still involving that change in content. It will give the world a more alive feeling, because things will not be stagnant for 7 years; this would provide the opportunity to put resources across the world in a metered fashion.
This is similar to how Rift approaches rifts, but better. It is like FATEs in FFXIV, but better. I didn't participate/wasn't playing for barrens/timeless isle; but from what I read, it didn't have any longevity; part of this design would be intended longevity ... ie: an set of world events could last about a patch or a raid tier. To gain the best rewards, the cost vs acquisition of the currency would take about 3/4 the time of the intended length of the content. This would allow for some catch up, and for some to feel accomplished by getting done and having a small 'break' before the next implementation.
Why can't we have both serious raiding and less committed forms of content that offer some form of progression as well? Why not design a game that has various systems that end up making most people happy and have something to do? Why does everything have to be either/or and exclusive? Why can't gamers support each other? Why not be nice to each other? I don't mean coddle the ones who can't be arsed to put in any effort in LFR (which some threads in the past showed it was not casuals, but lazy raiders who felt 'too good' to bother but went in anyway). I wish there was a way to punish leechers and not run into useless fucks as much as the next person; but being generally dismissive and not understanding the bigger picture or even attempting to see things outside one's narrow view helps nothing. Need real suggestions, not some trite bullshit
And as I understand. you have fixed schedule for job? - Than you will likely hav fixed schedule for sleeping and thus having few hours of free time to manage as you please. that may include hour or 3 to dedicate to wow.
Last edited by Saeran; 2013-11-02 at 03:50 PM.
World of Warcraft: The return of Uther. Focused around the returned Uther with Sargeras inside of him, AND he got Frostmourne in one hand and Medivhs staff in the other hand. And he wears the skin of rexar as a cloak. + he got gnomes for feet.
I've made a perfect example of how he should look like.
The less you know, the more you believe.
Actually, Mr. Lennon, I CAN imagine a world with no hate, religion, war, or violence.
I can also imagine attacking such a world, because they would never see it coming.