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  1. #821
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    Yea they were but it worked well then to. I mean any form of dungeon content works well if you incentive it properly. People like to play in small groups with friends. That's in part why I've had so much fun with dota. It's not some big ass 10 man group or 25 man raid it's a couple of your boys doing something for fun on skype. Extremely casual. Maybe 30 minutes a match an hour tops.
    That is why scenarios where brought to the game? At least hc scenarios should provide a fast and fun experience for you and friends.

  2. #822
    I once made a post complaining FLEX 4 is a little too hard for 530 PUG team.
    And everyone who reply says I sucked and they think that's extremely easy.
    And statistic says there is only 2% of WOW players who defeated 4th wing of SoO.

    Without reading those reply I can imagine what they are.

  3. #823
    Over 9000! Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryva View Post
    That is why scenarios where brought to the game? At least hc scenarios should provide a fast and fun experience for you and friends.
    Potentially but the experience is severely lack luster.


    Quote Originally Posted by judgementofantonidas View Post
    the one thing that I will agree with you is that they have gone a little overboard with every fight is a high movement don't stand in things requirement. I mean come on blizz, we got it, standing in things is bad.
    Well I think that's a high note to go to bed on then. You folks have a good one.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  4. #824
    The Lightbringer judgementofantonidas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    I'm a fan of quoting them when they talk facts and data not philosophy. Their design philosophy on this is totally wrong.
    It is their philosophy. You design a game and then you can decide what the philosophy behind that game is.





    There is no bad RNG only bad L2P

  5. #825
    Quote Originally Posted by Seefer View Post
    Yep, but now if people can't blow through them in 6 minutes they get pissed and rage about it, and now that they can and get their gear in less than a week Blizz decided "Why the hell bother? People do them to get the gear and stop"
    That's mostly Blizzard's fault. The community was doing just fine with 5 mans before LFD and then LFR. Blizzard has, essentially, pigeonholed their customers into doing the type of content THEY want them to do. It's identical to how they destroyed twinking and told players that they wanted them to play the game how Blizzard wanted them to play it instead of offering a viable solution that would have benefited everybody.

  6. #826
    Casuals tend to like playing by themselves or with a small group of friends, so where is the logic in throwing them in with 24 other strangers who are complete rude tools?
    And here lies the real issue that I've been trying to get at that no one seems to grasp. All these people are against raids and claim to be "casual". Usually saying because they're casual that means they can't raid.

    You're not against raids; you're against playing with that many people. Just read your own quote,"casuals tend to like playing by themselves". This is an MMO, it's not a fucking solo game. You want them to change a multi player game because you don't want to play with people. You've got to be able to see how absurd that is right? At this point you really have to understand if you don't enjoy playing with other people this really isn't a game you should be playing.

  7. #827
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    Quote Originally Posted by notorious98 View Post
    That's mostly Blizzard's fault. The community was doing just fine with 5 mans before LFD and then LFR. Blizzard has, essentially, pigeonholed their customers into doing the type of content THEY want them to do. It's identical to how they destroyed twinking and told players that they wanted them to play the game how Blizzard wanted them to play it instead of offering a viable solution that would have benefited everybody.
    I'd say it's 20% Blizzards fault and 80% the players fault, People such as those in this thread complained things were too hard and they don't have the time and prefer to not have to rely on others which brings me to the 20% Blizzards fault.......they listened.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Allarius View Post
    And here lies the real issue that I've been trying to get at that no one seems to grasp. All these people are against raids and claim to be "casual". Usually saying because they're casual that means they can't raid.

    You're not against raids; you're against playing with that many people. Just read your own quote,"casuals tend to like playing by themselves". This is an MMO, it's not a fucking solo game. You want them to change a multi player game because you don't want to play with people. You've got to be able to see how absurd that is right? At this point you really have to understand if you don't enjoy playing with other people this really isn't a game you should be playing.
    I've tried saying the same thing, that the solo players should just go off and play a solo player game and leave MMOs alone.
    "Of all the animals, man is the only one that is cruel. He is the only one who inflicts pain for the pleasure of doing it." - Mark Twain

  8. #828
    Quote Originally Posted by Seefer View Post
    I'd say it's 20% Blizzards fault and 80% the players fault, People such as those in this thread complained things were too hard and they don't have the time and prefer to not have to rely on others which brings me to the 20% Blizzards fault.......they listened.
    They listened by creating LFR? Sorry, doesn't hold water.

  9. #829
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    One of the things I'd also like to point at is the fact that I used the words: "Casual exciting" instead of "casual friendly".

    I think the difference is very important, because yes, people are right MoP is the most casual friendly ever, but is it casual exciting? Nope. And that is where the problem lies.

  10. #830
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    Quote Originally Posted by notorious98 View Post
    They listened by creating LFR? Sorry, doesn't hold water.
    Allow me to give you an example of something said (They can try to deny it but it's true) before LFR........

    "I am entitled to see the content as well because I pay the same 15 bucks a month"
    "Of all the animals, man is the only one that is cruel. He is the only one who inflicts pain for the pleasure of doing it." - Mark Twain

  11. #831
    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyHellfire View Post
    Raiding is boring.
    Agree with this one, why going the same place again if you might get 28g from a really long fight....

    after the last patch, the only thing i have done is run 1 time SoO and left it to play my alts, there is no point on keep farming items from LFR, there is no use for them outside the raid.

  12. #832
    Quote Originally Posted by Seefer View Post
    Allow me to give you an example of something said (They can try to deny it but it's true) before LFR........

    "I am entitled to see the content as well because I pay the same 15 bucks a month"
    Doesn't explain how LFR allows you to not "rely on others" as you stated in your previous post. Or are you changing the argument into "Casuals feel entitled and LFR ruined the game"?

  13. #833
    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyHellfire View Post
    Raiding is boring.
    Exactly. The only thing that drove me to keep raiding was that I enjoyed the friends with whom I raided. Now since Dragonmaw US is dead, even though its claimed to be a MEDIUM pop (bold face lie) server, my guild transferred at the start of the year and there is no one to play with. I am not paying for 11 level 90 characters to transfer to their server. Now that I cannot raid with them it sucks. Blizzard managed to kill the thing that made this game strong in the first place. Community.

    Also committing to set raid time and days each week when you have a job, girlfriend or wife, kids and so forth play time becomes more precious. No one wants to slug it out in some mediocre LFD or LFR after it takes 45 minutes if you are DPS to get inside.

    What is left of the community is sad. So many trolls and elitist people. Casuals are bad they have no skill whine here more. Really? Time != skill. I see so many players who are always online that are the first to die to standing in bad stuff.

    The entire current end game model of instanced raids is bad. Yes it works for now, but it leads to repetitive burn out. LFR -> Flex -> Normal -> Heroic are all the same dungeon just with slight differences. Some games are faster than others to release content. Others are not. Blizzard I feel falls in the slower pace of content release still. Look at how long raid tiers last. Most progression guilds clear normal within the first 2 weeks of release. After that they work on Heroic until cleared then farm gear just to repeat the cycle next raid tier. After 9 years of WoW that is boring.

    Then people say don't raid do other end game content. In Warcraft that is go to your room and do your dailies. Even the Timeless Isle still has that feel. After the first trek there of wondering around looking at everything and loot the free epic gear chests back comes the grind. Grind out blood tokens or timeless coins by just killing stuff over and over and over and over. The chests are gone with exception of a few that are weekly respawns, but there is really nothing.

    In past expansions Blizzard would add a 5 person dungeon at the end which honestly most were boring, but I had fun running through them with friends and guild mates. This time in MoP they said nope, instead you get Flex Raid, the same thing you have already been doing but can be with 10 to 25 players you pick size. By the way this is technology Rift came out with like 2 years ago. Flexible group size and dynamic mobs.

    Blizzard showed their hand in Mists. All they care about is the money. That is why the entire story of Mists doesn't require any past knowledge about the game. This entire expansion was about bringing in younger player base that was not from Wotlk or earlier. This expansion brought us mini games. Games within the game. We have Farmville and Pokemon, gotta collect them all!

    Look at the promise of Mists. To bring the Alliance and Horde war to a horrible point where it is all out. Okay, where was this war? I missed it. No battles in Kalimdor or Eastern Kingdoms besides the troll rebellion? I find that hard to believe when you have a total war story. Blizzard didn't either care to do it or chose not to because they didn't want the newer players to feel like they are not special by not knowing of these old places. It's not like they saw them while leveling since leveling takes the minimalist of effort and you can skips zones with no problem.

    The biggest issue facing Warcraft is the developers have became too complacent with their ideology being the only correct one in the room driven by the goal of cheapest content for the dollar. They fear experimentation and claim they already know what will happen. See free server transfer ideas with time based cooldowns. They are only going to continue vomit out partial stories with little new game play because the blinded masses are so thirsty for something new after being stuck with the same repetitive stuff for so long that the new repetitive stuff is the only thing to quench their thirst.

    Side note. The other thing that is annoying with Blizzard is character progression. The only way to progress your charterer is higher ilevel gear? Really? This needs to change too.
    Last edited by majesta; 2013-11-03 at 06:10 AM.
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  14. #834
    RE: endgame for casuals? If the developers don't want to create new tiers of dungeons like the Wrath era, then why not create open world scenarios that reward decent gear? Something along the lines of Battlefield Barrens but across multiple zones. Make it exciting, make the situations dire if failure occurs. Make it rewarding when success occurs. Some may say other MMOs offer things like this, but why can't WoW? Add more world PvP similar to Krasarang Wilds but across multiple zones. Make the successes count. Allow low level characters to participate (perhaps via a buff when "open world scenarios" are active). Make the whole WORLD bustle with activity. Perhaps give characters progress with how many open world scenarios they participate in, make them count! Make them something players would WANT to participate in, levelcapped AND leveling toons. The game should be more than just raiding. It should be something that brings players of all levels together in a significant way. Make the rares in each zone scale to appropriate levels of the players attacking them. Make them more like the Zandalari Warbringers and Scounts. Give low-level players a buff if a levelcapped players are attacking them and make drops individual like Timeless-rares. Add Timeless-like chests in every single zone that scale with player level (IE levelcapped players get appropriate gear + justice/valor or new currency, leveling toons get appropriate gear + justice/valor or new currency). Make leveling toons earn rewards that benefit them at endgame, etc. There is no reason why stuff like this can't be implemented ingame. It's a shame stuff like this doesn't already exist ingame. There's no reason why Tirisfal Glades or Northern Barrens or Redridge or Westfall need to be strictly for lowlevel toons.
    Last edited by mber341; 2013-11-03 at 06:13 AM.

  15. #835
    Pit Lord Seefer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notorious98 View Post
    Doesn't explain how LFR allows you to not "rely on others" as you stated in your previous post. Or are you changing the argument into "Casuals feel entitled and LFR ruined the game"?
    They can queue up whenever they want, they don't need to set a schedule and time to see the content, seriously..........are you thick or just trying to pick a fight?
    "Of all the animals, man is the only one that is cruel. He is the only one who inflicts pain for the pleasure of doing it." - Mark Twain

  16. #836
    If you are going to start immediately with generalisations about something you obviously do not understand, then there is no room for constructive discussion.
    Not everyone is in LFR to simply "see the content", an arrogant point of view that really should die.

    LFR is accessible due to lack of organisational requirements.
    Something Flex does not offer.
    Something normal and heroic does not offer.

    Casuals are time constrained, often limited to un-sociable hours or intermittent gameplay.
    No format other than LFR can cater to that without co-operation of an organised group.

    Take a look at oQueue and the success of that, which is entirely based on reducing the organisational barrier.

  17. #837
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    Quote Originally Posted by mber341 View Post
    RE: endgame for casuals? If the developers don't want to create new tiers of dungeons like the Wrath era, then why not create open world scenarios that reward decent gear? Something along the lines of Battlefield Barrens but across multiple zones. Make it exciting, make the situations dire if failure occurs. Make it rewarding when success occurs. Some may say other MMOs offer things like this, but why can't WoW? Add more world PvP similar to Krasarang Wilds but across multiple zones. Make the successes count. Allow low level characters to participate (perhaps via a buff when "open world scenarios" are active). Make the whole WORLD bustle with activity. Perhaps give characters progress with how many open world scenarios they participate in, make them count! Make them something players would WANT to participate in, levelcapped AND leveling toons. The game should be more than just raiding. It should be something that brings players of all levels together in a significant way.
    I agree with this (though I don't pvp), I often find myself only logging in for raid nights because most of the other time I am just bored with nothing to do.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by ComputerNerd View Post
    If you are going to start immediately with generalisations about something you obviously do not understand, then there is no room for constructive discussion.
    Not everyone is in LFR to simply "see the content", an arrogant point of view that really should die.

    LFR is accessible due to lack of organisational requirements.
    Something Flex does not offer.
    Something normal and heroic does not offer.

    Casuals are time constrained, often limited to un-sociable hours or intermittent gameplay.
    No format other than LFR can cater to that without co-operation of an organised group.
    Flex does too........use openraid or oqueue, it can be done cross realm.
    "Of all the animals, man is the only one that is cruel. He is the only one who inflicts pain for the pleasure of doing it." - Mark Twain

  18. #838
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seefer View Post
    They can queue up whenever they want, they don't need to set a schedule and time to see the content, seriously..........are you thick or just trying to pick a fight?
    But LFR is boring as fuck.

    It's why I used the words "casual exciting" in the title instead of "casual friendly", because yes, LFR is super-casual friendly, but is it exciting? is it fun? I don't know but I feel like you'd have to pretty goddamn braindead to get much fun out of LFR where every bossfight nearly feels as if yet another Patchwerk fight because many of the mechanics are easily ignored or not very challenging or punishing if you don't pay attention to them. I really don't know where the fun is when I queue for LFR and already know that I'll have cleared the place in 45 minutes because it's almost impossible to fail. Is it an exciting game then or is it just a required grind?

    They need to focus on providing a casual exciting endgame, not a casual friendly one.
    Last edited by Cute Anarchist; 2013-11-03 at 06:10 AM.

  19. #839
    If you cant play more than a few hours a week and join/create a raid guild, by definition you shouldnt need more to do.

  20. #840
    Quote Originally Posted by topcatti View Post
    Why cant casuals raid normal, or even heroic? Really tell me. Play the game for 3 hours, 2 or 3 times a week? jesus
    I used to get that from my old guild that raided at 5:00 PM. Dude, why can't you make it? Because it's the West Coast, I have a job, and even if I left at 5:00 PM, and there's no traffic, the best I can do is 5:30. I had a very short commute during this and rarely left late. But, even then running home 3 time/week to raid is just stupid. If you are married, have kids, work out, do anything else, it just doesn't work.

    Sure, some people can do it but I wasn't one of them.

    Most people would need 2 of those 3 times to be on the weekend unless they were college students or something.

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