1. #1181
    Scarab Lord UnifiedDivide's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by khalltusk View Post
    Dungeon gear used to have tier sets as it was dungeon tier. (vanilla and TBC) bring something like that back and tuned specifically for dungeon content would be fantastic. Bring in a quest line to make the items epic in quality (involve summon able bosses a few materials to gather and a few JP)
    Yeah, I'd quite like to see stuff like 8-set bonuses again too lol Beaststalker Armor FTW! I quite enjoyed upgrading that gear too, through the quests.
    Last edited by UnifiedDivide; 2013-11-04 at 05:28 PM.

    Sometimes updated...

  2. #1182
    Quote Originally Posted by Seefer View Post
    Honestly? If that is how many want solo content? Yes. People who want solo content should go play solo games, if the MMO market crashes because of it then the game genre is dead like Pong and Pacman, but based on the influx of MMORPGs out there I doubt it would die.
    The issue with that is with out the super fantastic money that comes in with such a large player base. You won't get the super fantastic raids we've been getting. Think Scenarios but raid versions. re-used everything (models art etc) to make it cheap to make.

    Blizzard wants to retain even these lovely casual customers so they can continue making raid content. It is in your best interests to keep (by your I mean raiders) casuals in the game so long as blizzard focuses on raids so much as they do.

  3. #1183
    Quote Originally Posted by cFortyfive View Post
    Well it's hardly possible or even next to impossible to get to that point for starters.
    Well, I disagree.

    There is no need to make two progression paths require exactly equal time and effort. (As an aside, you wouldn't be able to do this if you tried, because we won't ever agree on how to measure effort, for example.) What's needed is something much simpler. Both Blizzard and players are interested in progression paths which keep people playing from one patch to the next. That's it. Where do you think a valor cap of 1000 and item costs of 1250, 1750, 2250, etc, come from? Blizzard took what they know about raiders, made some assumptions about an average raider, and laid the numbers so that the speed of upgrades is where they want it to be. The number of drops per boss comes from the same source. There is no reason they can't do the same for casuals. Yes, maybe they won't get it right the first one or two times, but as they get more data, their numbers will get better and the tuning will be better as well.

  4. #1184
    Quote Originally Posted by Otiswhitaker View Post
    and in many cases, it'd seem, a lot of people just flat out don't want to.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I don't think that'd work. But maybe successive difficulties of 5 mans could, though. Sort of how there's a LFR/Flex/Normal/Heroic of raids. Plus, also, lots of 5 mans. Who knows what all they could do. Clearly, there should be a more compelling endgame for other people, don't you think? Or no?
    I am fine with more end game for "casuals" but as I said. There must be a distinction in rewards for effort it takes to complete. You should not get raid quality items for anything that takes less effort and time than raids. If a 5 man dungeon is just as hard as a raid sure give them the rewards. but if it is not the same level of difficulty than it should not drop the same level of gear. so have a 5 man dungeon that has 2 mini bosses and a "raid" boss that is the same difficulty as a raid that is out and let the end raid boss of the 5 man drop equivalent gear. I am perfectly fine with this.

    But once again....the DIFFICULTY MUST be the same. Scaled to 5 man proportion with help and what not but the same degree of difficulty to down in retrospect.
    Last edited by pallyopness; 2013-11-04 at 05:30 PM.

  5. #1185
    If you don't want to raid, then pvp.

    If you don't want to pvp, then pet battle.

    If nothing like that interests you, what are you doing playing this game?

    I currently raid, but if I find that my schedule changes where I can't have set times, I'll still have loads of crap to do casually.

    I don't get it. You can't expect 9/24 other people to just pop online like magic, you need to set times, like any other activity that's done with several people. I don't go to my friends and say "yeah when we're all awake and not in work lets play board games!" no, it's on a day at a time.

    Really really don't get it.

  6. #1186
    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    Yeah, I'd quite like to see stuff like 8-set bonuses again too lol Beaststalker Armor FTW!
    Seriously just bring back dungeon tier sets sure make them 5 set like raid sets are now. But make it upgradable through a good quest line (unlocked at say 2 piece/4 piece)

    That along with some profession recipes dropping in dungeons along with forges/anvils/alchemy labs used for specific crafting items that are only located in dungeons would be a pretty cool change. Just make those crafting areas after the end boss in a dungeon so the person who wants it completes the dungeon in LFD first.

  7. #1187
    Quote Originally Posted by topcatti View Post
    Why cant casuals raid normal, or even heroic? Really tell me. Play the game for 3 hours, 2 or 3 times a week? jesus
    Why is raiding, regardless of difficulty pretty much the only end game content? I raid heroic and find the content outside of that completely lacking.

  8. #1188
    Warchief Seefer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    Yeah, I'd quite like to see stuff like 8-set bonuses again too lol Beaststalker Armor FTW!
    If they could make 5 mans like in Classic/TBC (with the armor sets), put in world bosses like that, make questing like TBC..........Yeah I would love it.........sadly for as much as the casual wants it they WILL bitch like they do about how hard it is and wanting nerfs etc, or the gear isn't good enough, or they don't get to see the end cinematic or whatever else they wish to bitch about.
    "Of all the animals, man is the only one that is cruel. He is the only one who inflicts pain for the pleasure of doing it." - Mark Twain

  9. #1189
    Quote Originally Posted by Seefer View Post
    Honestly? If that is how many want solo content? Yes. People who want solo content should go play solo games, if the MMO market crashes because of it then the game genre is dead like Pong and Pacman, but based on the influx of MMORPGs out there I doubt it would die.
    Not only for that but I actually think as well that it is quite likely. While I don't think this exactly is the case I definitely feel that a lot of people would be better off with small scale coop games.
    Quote Originally Posted by rda View Post
    Well, I disagree.
    Yeah sure tell me once you get the math done on how much more effort it takes to get x people together doing shit in comparison to you doing it just on your own. And rewards should be related to effort.
    Quote Originally Posted by Otiswhitaker View Post
    Based on the sheer amount of MMOs crashing and burning, actually, I'd say that the genre is headed into some dark territory, and has really lost almost all of it's mainstream luster. (Though, to be equally fair, this guy isn't entirely JUST demanding solo content, now, is he?)
    I agree on this. MMOs aren't the call of duties, lols, whatever people perceived them to be because of wow.
    Last edited by cFortyfive; 2013-11-04 at 05:36 PM.

  10. #1190
    Quote Originally Posted by Xiun View Post
    If nothing like that interests you, what are you doing playing this game?
    This sort of argument presumes that what "this game" is, is fixed. But it often comes with howls of protest when the devs change the game to try to appeal to some of the people you're telling to go away.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler
    I hate these casual Fridays ruining it for real Fridays.

  11. #1191
    Pit Lord Odina's Avatar
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    To be honest whatever blizz comes up wit it wont matter! The same that flame there is nothign for them will still flame and not behappy with it.

    Lets say they made it so once a week from Prooving grounds you could get a top tier item guaranteed if you did something (say as a tank get to 30 rounds of endless without interupting any casters) just soemthing challenging for solo but just as rewarding as raiding and no RNG just guranteed drop. Many on here woudl still complain it's not enough not enguaging enough they ran it did it or is too hard etc

    Then when you ask what blizz SHOULD do to keep there attention you get "I don't know thats there job" ... it's like being in a relationship where you don't like the sex and then your partner asks "what do you like/ what can I do better" and you respond "dunno it's your job to please me I have no idea what i like in bed"! It makes 0 sense to toss hands in air and say "not my job to know what I like but you should figure it out" and actually expect them to figure out with all the things they could possible come up with what you will like! Not sure what most do for jobs but immagine a boss coming up to you going "you fucked this project up fix it" and when you asked what needed fixing they just looked at you and said 'I don't knwo that's your job fix it" how frustrated / lost you would be!

  12. #1192
    Epic! schwank05's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by topcatti View Post
    Why cant casuals raid normal, or even heroic? Really tell me. Play the game for 3 hours, 2 or 3 times a week? jesus
    I actually play for 4-5 hours 2-3 nights a week. But the time I can log on is never the same and may vary by as much as 2-3 hours day to day. I cannot commit to the schedule of any guild because of this. So I just log on and run LFR and Flex when I can and do some PVP here and there.

  13. #1193
    Scarab Lord UnifiedDivide's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by khalltusk View Post
    Seriously just bring back dungeon tier sets sure make them 5 set like raid sets are now. But make it upgradable through a good quest line (unlocked at say 2 piece/4 piece)

    That along with some profession recipes dropping in dungeons along with forges/anvils/alchemy labs used for specific crafting items that are only located in dungeons would be a pretty cool change. Just make those crafting areas after the end boss in a dungeon so the person who wants it completes the dungeon in LFD first.
    I'd quite like that, tbh. I miss when I had to do stuff like BRD to get my engineering recipe in one of the rooms. Or I had to kill a boss to get the recipe that was behind him. Hell, you even had the special anvil in there that let you smelt the Dark Iron ore.

    It's stuff like that that I miss quite a lot tbh. Just little details that make things feel more... RPG-like. WoW is meant to be an RPG afterall xD

    Quote Originally Posted by Seefer View Post
    If they could make 5 mans like in Classic/TBC (with the armor sets), put in world bosses like that, make questing like TBC..........Yeah I would love it.........sadly for as much as the casual wants it they WILL bitch like they do about how hard it is and wanting nerfs etc, or the gear isn't good enough, or they don't get to see the end cinematic or whatever else they wish to bitch about.
    As sad as it is, I can honestly see the forum QQ already... Even if forums are a minority, people still listen to them and assume everyone thinks the same. I think Blizzard do this too, sadly.

    Sometimes updated...

  14. #1194
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    This sort of argument presumes that what "this game" is, is fixed. But it often comes with howls of protest when the devs change the game to try to appeal to some of the people you're telling to go away.
    they try to compromise.....they won't ever give you what you are fully demanding and that is where the issue is. That is why they CREATE new things instead of changing existing. They don't want to change the game to the ideals of the complaining they try to minimize the bitching by trying to compromise....example lfr and flex

    People wanted to see the content within a certain amount of time...they created lfr...they can't be blamed for the skill of players that go into it. They created easily cleared content so that it can be seen....that wasn't enough because people didn't want it so face roll, so they created flex as an alternate thing while also trying to help the guilds that normal was to hard for and didn't want to bench their friends. now that isn't good enough? where does it end?
    Last edited by pallyopness; 2013-11-04 at 05:39 PM.

  15. #1195
    Quote Originally Posted by pallyopness View Post
    they try to compromise.....they won't ever give you what you are fully demanding and that is where the issue is. That is why they CREATE new things instead of changing existing. They don't want to change the game to the ideals of the complaining they try to minimize the bitching by trying to compromise....example lfr and flex

    People wanted to see the content within a certain amount of time...they created lfr...they can't be blamed for the skill of players that go into it. They created easily cleared content so that it can be seen....that wasn't enough because people didn't want it so face roll, so they created flex as an alternate thing while also trying to help the guilds that normal was to hard for and didn't want to bench their friends. now that isn't good enough? where does it end?
    I think history tells another story, the development of this game from patch to patch has been built on knee jerk u turns since day one.

  16. #1196
    Warchief Seefer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    I'd quite like that, tbh. I miss when I had to do stuff like BRD to get my engineering recipe in one of the rooms. Or I had to kill a boss to get the recipe that was behind him. Hell, you even had the special anvil in there that let you smelt the Dark Iron ore.

    It's stuff like that that I miss quite a lot tbh. Just little details that make things feel more... RPG-like. WoW is meant to be an RPG afterall xD


    As sad as it is, I can honestly see the forum QQ already... Even if forums are a minority, people still listen to them and assume everyone thinks the same. I think Blizzard do this too, sadly.
    Nice to see we agree, I honestly miss going after dungeon sets in a challenging 5 man, the class quests, the world pvp at a world boss, the rush I got exploring new places.........people say it's because I have been playing the game so long, but really, Blizzard destroyed all of that for the sake of "convenience" because people bitched and complained.
    "Of all the animals, man is the only one that is cruel. He is the only one who inflicts pain for the pleasure of doing it." - Mark Twain

  17. #1197
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    This sort of argument presumes that what "this game" is, is fixed. But it often comes with howls of protest when the devs change the game to try to appeal to some of the people you're telling to go away.
    The thing is, people are saying "give me more casual content"

    There's a TON of it, when someone says "well you can do this" they respond with "I don't wanna".

    So really, if none of the vast amount of casual content out there doesn't interest someone, then what more can you do?

  18. #1198
    Quote Originally Posted by Xiun View Post
    The thing is, people are saying "give me more casual content"

    There's a TON of it, when someone says "well you can do this" they respond with "I don't wanna".

    So really, if none of the vast amount of casual content out there doesn't interest someone, then what more can you do?
    No feedback from customers can ever be taken as a complete requirements document for what is needed to satisfy them. No one who asked for casual content has any obligation to be satisfied by something the devs label as casual content.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler
    I hate these casual Fridays ruining it for real Fridays.

  19. #1199
    Scarab Lord UnifiedDivide's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seefer View Post
    Nice to see we agree, I honestly miss going after dungeon sets in a challenging 5 man, the class quests, the world pvp at a world boss, the rush I got exploring new places.........people say it's because I have been playing the game so long, but really, Blizzard destroyed all of that for the sake of "convenience" because people bitched and complained.
    Honestly, I think it's a mixture of both. At least for me.
    Having played since (roughly) 5 months into the EU Vanilla release, there isn't really anything now that can excite me as it used to. It's a case of "been there, done that". But I do also think that Blizzard ruined any chance of it maybe happening again with the removal of such things.

    I'd love to see all the things the both of us listed in the game again, tbh. Especially the PvP we got with world bosses. I've never really liked PvP but there was something about trying to both beat the opposite faction to the boss by killing them and then the feeling of actually beating them and getting that world boss kill.

    As I said, it's the little things that I miss ^^

    Sometimes updated...

  20. #1200
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    No feedback from customers can ever be taken as a complete requirements document for what is needed to satisfy them. No one who asked for casual content has any obligation to be satisfied by something the devs label as casual content.
    LOLOLOL.....seriously....just quit.....guess what I sure the fuck don't like leveling I fucking HATE leveling with a passion...but guess what...I have NO CHOICE but to level every new expansion. Why? Because to get what I want I HAVE NO CHOICE but to level. But since I really WANT and DESIRE to raid and get the gear.....I do it because I enjoy the reward. You are no different than anyone else. You are the one trying to be "special" here. You are just another customer. The sooner you accept it the better you can enjoy what you have in front of you and if you can't enjoy it you don't need to stay. You can say blizzard wouldn't stand by that statement but what you want is the impossible and that is to be satisfied.

    The constant bitching is really really getting old....there is nothing more to say to you except this isn't the game for you. whether or not you want to accept it is another story but that is how it is. So you can either keep giving blizzard money monthly for a game you don't enjoy or you can stop playing it. and if you already stopped playing it then quit bitching and get on with your life.

    Infracted.
    Last edited by Gehco; 2013-11-04 at 09:01 PM.

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