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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormtrooperz View Post
    Here's another thought.

    If there's no story and no lore, what inspires the character to do anything in the game?

    What creates the world we play in?

    A perfect example of a game that tries to cater to too many and it ends up looking disgusting is Saints Row 4.

    One minute you're a thug, next minute you're on a land speeder that gained lifting abilities shooting aliens and hitting them with giant sex toys.

    I can only see that as being entertaining if you're a child, or intoxicated/tripping hard core.
    Saints Row is meant to be that way, though. I mean, I didn't play SR4, but I played the first couple minutes of 3 and what I experienced was jumping out of a plane to save your hooker/girlfriend or whoever, busting through the front of the plane that is trying to run you out of the sky, and then continuing your descent until you catch your hooker/girlfriend and parachute to safety. (Not even mentioning your floozies and those of your enemies as well, who are there for no other reason than to be floozies.)

    While WoW has had some retcons and such, they usually leave that which has a lot already explained alone. Draenei were pretty mysterious up until TBC, and even now still are. Things like how many Demon Hunters there are in the world (Not many) and which races have been utterly obliterated to the point of near-uselessness are not so mysterious.

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormtrooperz View Post
    that in order for your idea to work, they must disregard lore they've built upon for years, just because you want (insert whatever here)?
    Lemme rant and give you an example:
    They did Night Elf Mages, but they haven't or won't do Blood Elf Druids. The difference? All elves were originally one people, so it's logical sense that they're capable of it, they just stopped and didn't want to because at the time, Azshara's highborne magic was the elite social status, the "thing to be doing", was my takeaway lore summary. The Quel'dorei culture that followed that split gave up druidism not out of malice toward druidism itself, but probably just disuse in favor of "superior" magic.

    By contrast, Night Elves did favor druidism over magic, and obviously saw the repercussions of magic when Azshara summoned Sargeras into the world, so they were predisposed to be a culture primarily of druids and to dislike mages. Which is why it's total tripe that Blizzard permits Night Elf Mages to suddenly pop out of the woodwork like they've been hiding for thousands of years (and didn't lose their purple like the Quel'dorei did, which at least in WC3 they purportedly got their purple hue from infusing themselves with arcane magic from the Well. Which Shendralar wouldn't have had access to.)

    Anyway... On one hand, you've got magic doing bad stuff, and on the other, druidism which hasn't caused bad things. You'd think that after nearly destroying the world and Queen Azshara turning into naga and basically magic being pretty dangerous (and addictive and corrupting, even when it's not demonic) the High/Blood Elves would at some point think... "hey guys, maybe we should reconsider our ways, druidism seems like a source of power that won't screw us up." Especially since their people have been split up and nearly decimated, and we've seen what happens when you're magic-addicted (I'll mention the Wretched, too, etc). How many times does magic need to screw them over for them to be willing to consider changing their lifestyle back to -- not something new, even -- but the way it originally was?

    But no. Night Elf Mage makes total sense, but Blood Elf Druid is clearly too far-fetched. Just my rant on why that example ISN'T disregarding lore built up for years. Blizzard's already done that on their own.
    Last edited by Aerofluff; 2013-11-04 at 06:12 AM.

  3. #123
    The Lightbringer Mokoshne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fleugen View Post
    Draenei were pretty mysterious up until TBC, and even now still are.
    with alot left to explore, there might be enough content there to explain and tell a story that could make up an entire expansion?

    hell... its about time we learned more about these blue guys from space. shouldve been done in TBC ! haha
    My weekly podcast can be downloaded here this week Can a guy and a girl ever have a truly platonic friendship?

  4. #124
    I love lore as much as the next nerd, but

    Doing what they want in the game comes first, 'making the lore fit' is second. They've even said it themselves over the years many times.

    No, it doesnt raise any red flags because this is how it should be.

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by Mokoshne View Post
    with alot left to explore, there might be enough content there to explain and tell a story that could make up an entire expansion?

    hell... its about time we learned more about these blue guys from space. shouldve been done in TBC ! haha
    Hell, I'd be down. I'd love an expansion based solely on the exploration of mysterious races.

    The problem is how. Warlords of Draenor would suggest Draenor being the planet we're going to. Which would be pre-destruction Outland. In which case, implies time travel, which we already know is taboo because of how easily that can throw off the space time continuum.

  6. #126
    My affection and devotion to the lore went out the window the moment they added Haris Pilton, Harrison Jones and the Temple of Uldum, and Tednug with his pet Scratchfever wandering Durotar.

    How do you expect me to take Warcrafts lore seriously when I see shit like that constantly?


    Ooh ooh, and Keanu Reeves in the last raid of Cataclysm. That was a nice touch... -_-
    "It's 2013 and I still view the internet on a 560x192 resolution monitor!"

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by NoiseTank13 View Post
    My affection and devotion to the lore went out the window the moment they added Haris Pilton, Harrison Jones and the Temple of Uldum, and Tednug with his pet Scratchfever wandering Durotar.

    How do you expect me to take Warcrafts lore seriously when I see shit like that constantly?


    Ooh ooh, and Keanu Reeves in the last raid of Cataclysm. That was a nice touch... -_-
    Mine when out the window when Chris Metzen "forgot" the origin of Sargeras during the launch of BC because it was "so long ago", and just told us to accept the new lore as canon.

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by SodiumChloride View Post
    Mine when out the window when Chris Metzen "forgot" the origin of Sargeras during the launch of BC because it was "so long ago", and just told us to accept the new lore as canon.
    I can see why. Though to be honest this was when the lore concerning Outlands was still relatively unknown and there was wiggle room. It didn't look good on Metzen when what basically happened was him not checking his notes/being lazy, however.
    "It's 2013 and I still view the internet on a 560x192 resolution monitor!"

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by NoiseTank13 View Post
    My affection and devotion to the lore went out the window the moment they added Haris Pilton, Harrison Jones and the Temple of Uldum, and Tednug with his pet Scratchfever wandering Durotar.

    How do you expect me to take Warcrafts lore seriously when I see shit like that constantly?


    Ooh ooh, and Keanu Reeves in the last raid of Cataclysm. That was a nice touch... -_-
    Not to mention 'Self-proclaimed Prince' that now sits around Silvermoon with his entourage.

    I liked when characters like Haris Pilton and Harrison Jones were nothing but silly NPCs who did nothing but give non-story driven quests/sell items. Hell, I think Tednug and the Self-proclaimed Prince are pretty funny. But when Harrison Jones became a major figurehead in the story in Uldum, that was a problem. I can't take the Uldum story seriously at all, even the parts that didn't involve Harrison Jones. :/

  10. #130
    Warchief Seefer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoiseTank13 View Post
    My affection and devotion to the lore went out the window the moment they added Haris Pilton, Harrison Jones and the Temple of Uldum, and Tednug with his pet Scratchfever wandering Durotar.

    How do you expect me to take Warcrafts lore seriously when I see shit like that constantly?


    Ooh ooh, and Keanu Reeves in the last raid of Cataclysm. That was a nice touch... -_-
    So you had no issue with Mario and Luigi, Link, The Ninja Turtles, or He-Man?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fleugen View Post
    Not to mention 'Self-proclaimed Prince' that now sits around Silvermoon with his entourage.

    I liked when characters like Haris Pilton and Harrison Jones were nothing but silly NPCs who did nothing but give non-story driven quests/sell items. Hell, I think Tednug and the Self-proclaimed Prince are pretty funny. But when Harrison Jones became a major figurehead in the story in Uldum, that was a problem. I can't take the Uldum story seriously at all, even the parts that didn't involve Harrison Jones. :/
    Link gave a 13 quest chain.
    No child these days ever gets to hear those all-important, character building words: "You lost, Bobby! You lost, you're a loser, Bobby!" They miss out on that. You know what they tell a kid who lost these days? "You were the last winner." A lot of these kids never get to hear the truth about themselves until they're in their twenties. When their boss calls them in and says "Bobby, clean the shit out of your desk and get the fuck out of here, you're a loser."

  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by Aerofluff View Post
    But no. Night Elf Mage makes total sense, but Blood Elf Druid is clearly too far-fetched. Just my rant on why that example ISN'T disregarding lore built up for years. Blizzard's already done that on their own.
    Based on this though, I could totally see High elf Druids. Just not Blood elven Druids.

  12. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by m777 View Post
    the lore is not so important as u may think 95% of the players don't even care only the small group like to RP
    RP has nothing to do with the overall story arc/lore of the game, pretty sure most people are interested in the story of the game.

  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by Seefer View Post
    Link gave a 13 quest chain.
    Which lead to...? Linken's quest was nothing more than filler in a zone with very few quests. Harrison Jones has some quests in Grizzly Hills as well, none of which are important to the story. Linken's quest chain was not important to the story, unless I've missed some major event in which that quest chain stopped the end of the world/added a new neutral faction to the game.

  14. #134
    Dreadlord Manabomb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormtrooperz View Post
    Really tired of seeing speculations all based around the idea of, "Yeah, just bend the lore to have it fit, they've done it before."

    Does that not immediately raise a red flag to you as a person, that in order for your idea to work, they must disregard lore they've built upon for years, just because you want (insert whatever here)?
    I am actually in quite a bit of agreement here. It is annoying when a story has to ret con itself in order to make something work and it's almost as bad when fans make speculations that would break the lore horribly. And while yeah, Blizzard has put it's game's lore on the back burner many of times, I'd like to think there is at the very least 1 intern there that still has passion about writing this game's lore.

    Lord know's it's original writers either give it to said interns or we get story telling like Cata Thrall and MoP Garrosh.
    Reduce- Iconic class abilities, complexity and meaningful rotations, usefulness of any one class in a raid group
    Reuse- A continent from 3 expansions ago, a story arch from 3 games ago, characters that would otherwise be dead
    Recycle- A beaten to death plot-line, the nostalgia goggles for TBC, bossfight mechanics that make patchwerk seem complex
    The three R's of Warlords of Draenor and that doesn't even mention flying, #savekarabor, blizzard store, tier to tier ilvl skips.

  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by Seefer View Post
    So you had no issue with Mario and Luigi, Link, The Ninja Turtles, or He-Man?
    Yeah I did.

    Did you not understand what I wrote?
    "It's 2013 and I still view the internet on a 560x192 resolution monitor!"

  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by TyrianFC View Post
    I love lore as much as the next nerd, but

    Doing what they want in the game comes first, 'making the lore fit' is second. They've even said it themselves over the years many times.

    No, it doesnt raise any red flags because this is how it should be.
    yes game comes first but there should be a limit of how much you butcher the lore especially when you have alot of alternatives; why going back to draenor making time travel for example and just put soo much in bending the lore when you have Azshara, Old Gods, Burning Legion and Titans plots ready to be used?
    How about we let the parenting of kids to... their parents? No, seriously, World of Warcraft is a videogame. Gaming it's supposed to be a fun activity (if you have that fun through challenges, social interactions, etc is completely up to you). Not some kind of "School of Hard Knocks about the Real World".

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