AoC 536 vs RsC 549

[Grof]

according to amr I got huge upgrade with 536 aoc over 549 rsc, according with sc with full reforge haste to crit and 536 aoc I got almost same dps. Plz can somone with more exp can check on amr and sc or can give some advice since atm dont know what to do ?

cheers

[Senftw]

Go with aoc.

[Maelstrom51]

Shadowcraft ( http://shadowcraft.mmo-mumble.com/ ) is showing RSC about 4.5k dps above a 536 AoC, assuming Assassination is your main spec.

Also, I would recommend not using AMR as a rogue. Shadowcraft is a much, much better tool.

[Pariah]

Also, I would recommend not using AMR as a rogue. Shadowcraft is a much, much better tool.

No. It's not. SC is a great tool but AMR is as good as your stat weights are. You control how accurate it is. And with that, it's your fault if AMR is not an exceptional tool.

[Maelstrom51]

No. It's not. SC is a great tool but AMR is as good as your stat weights are. You control how accurate it is. And with that, it's your fault if AMR is not an exceptional tool.

AMR does not do any modeling, and has several shortcomings due to this. For example, as Assassination, it will list four set tier and AoC as BiS, regardless of stat weights. Fact of the matter is, as Assassination, neither of these are actually BiS. There is an argument for using AoC as Assassination for the lower cooldown Cloak, but damage wise its inferior to Haromm's and Ticking Ebon Detonator.

For rogues, Shadowcraft is a flat-out better tool.

[Grof]

plz still need help about tinkets guys not debate is amr better or sc xD

[Maelstrom51]

plz still need help about tinkets guys not debate is amr better or sc xD

Renataki's.

[Carp The Fish]

When I plug you into Shadowcraft, your Heroic Thunderforged Renataki's is better than LFR AoC.

My advice, however, is to get any better-ilvl AoC IMMEDIATELY.

The Expertise is the real factor in why Renataki's is valued so high nowadays in these sims (The proc is bad now, folks), but if you take a good look at your gear, you've been reforging out of Expertise elsewhere. Flex AoC, Normal AoC, and Heroic AoC will all beat Renataki's handily.

[Grof]

When I plug you into Shadowcraft, your Heroic Thunderforged Renataki's is better than LFR AoC.

My advice, however, is to get any better-ilvl AoC IMMEDIATELY.

The Expertise is the real factor in why Renataki's is valued so high nowadays in these sims (The proc is bad now, folks), but if you take a good look at your gear, you've been reforging out of Expertise elsewhere. Flex AoC, Normal AoC, and Heroic AoC will all beat Renataki's handily.

well thx m8 for answering like to all others, but main problem is, in my guild is very hard to got agi trinket since in our raid setup we have 2 rogues, 3 hunters , 2 droods, 3 shamnys and 1 monk who uses agi trinkets....

but somehow i have a feelin we will stick with soo atleast 6 or 7 months so... xD

[Artorius]

As a combat rogue you're the top priority in getting AoC, just saying.

Edit: My bad, i did not notice you were Assassination. Nevermind

[Kael]

The Expertise is the real factor in why Renataki's is valued so high nowadays in these sims (The proc is bad now, folks). Flex AoC, Normal AoC, and Heroic AoC will all beat Renataki's handily.

This is just wrong. Any sim or model will value expertise so long as its valuable, then stop. When you reforge the gear appropriately, it is not valuing expertise on a trinket more than the proc. The proc is not bad now. AoC is just unexciting for assassination (in Cronight's case, a 548 AoC is still 300 DPS behind a 549 RSC.

If you play anything besides assassination, get the AoC.

[Sesshou]

No. It's not. SC is a great tool but AMR is as good as your stat weights are. You control how accurate it is. And with that, it's your fault if AMR is not an exceptional tool.

You're contradicting yourself big time. By your own admission AMR is massively inferior because you need to go elsewhere to calculate your stat weights first and then use them in AMR which is clearly inferior to just using the sim / sheet that gave you the weights to calculate for you as it already knows your stat weights. Its like using one calculator for multiplication and a different one for addition when the first calculator can do both and the second calculator can only ever do addition. Clearly the first is the superior tool and using just the first is superior to having to rotate between two.

Also say I give you my stat weights and just that alone, how are you going to valuate something like cooldown reduction?

[straws]

When I plug you into Shadowcraft, your Heroic Thunderforged Renataki's is better than LFR AoC.

My advice, however, is to get any better-ilvl AoC IMMEDIATELY.

The Expertise is the real factor in why Renataki's is valued so high nowadays in these sims (The proc is bad now, folks), but if you take a good look at your gear, you've been reforging out of Expertise elsewhere. Flex AoC, Normal AoC, and Heroic AoC will all beat Renataki's handily.

RSC was nerfed by cutting the duration in half and then proc rate doubled,thereby having same agi uptime but consistant.
Also when using sc for comparison between trinkets , note down the dps with your current trinket, equip the new trinket in sc and click reforge again and see the increase. Do not compare a +secondary stat trinket with a +agi or effect trinket by looking at trinket's list dropdown, that is so wrong on so many levels, hell it goes true for any piece you are replacing, click reforge every time you change a piece of gear.

[Sesshou]

RSC was nerfed by cutting the duration in half and then proc rate doubled,thereby having same agi uptime but consistant.

Thats not really nerfing it. It got nerfed because they didn't actually double the proc rate (was .62 now is 1.21) and it no longer gets increased proc rate from haste.

[straws]

Thats not really nerfing it. It got nerfed because they didn't actually double the proc rate (was .62 now is 1.21) and it no longer gets increased proc rate from haste.

I should have better constructed that sentence,
RSC was nerfed by cutting the duration in half and then buffed by doubling the proc rate ,so in the end it was not really nerfed and it still is a decent trinket.The haste dependency removal was the actual nerf , which hit all the rppm trinkets.

[Sesshou]

I should have better constructed that sentence,
RSC was nerfed by cutting the duration in half and then buffed by doubling the proc rate ,so in the end it was not really nerfed and it still is a decent trinket.The haste dependency removal was the actual nerf , which hit all the rppm trinkets.

No, it was actually a net nerf because the proc chance was not doubled (it was on other trinkets like bad juju though). Its a little less than double the original value (excluding haste).

[Maelstrom51]

The proc rate was not doubled for a good reason - it previously had an artificially high proc rate to make up for the 22 second ICD, which was reduced to 10 seconds when the proc went to 10 seconds. The short term rppm mechanics max out at 10 seconds time between possible procs, so the 22 second ICD basically resulted in 12 seconds of wasted time (not including the long duration mechanic added later).

Really, the only nerf to RSC is that haste doesn't increase the proc rate.

[ymirsson]

well thx m8 for answering like to all others, but main problem is, in my guild is very hard to got agi trinket since in our raid setup we have 2 rogues, 3 hunters , 2 droods, 3 shamnys and 1 monk who uses agi trinkets....

but somehow i have a feelin we will stick with soo atleast 6 or 7 months so... xD

You have that many agi users? That's 8 melees right there, no to mention alot of agi gear to be wished. Or do off specs somehow get priority in loot?

[Grof]

You have that many agi users? That's 8 melees right there, no to mention alot of agi gear to be wished. Or do off specs somehow get priority in loot?

ms>os>sg !!!

[Deleted]

Slight exaggeration unless you're rolling a lot in and out. 1 hunter, 1 enhancement shaman, 2 rogues who are eligible for it.

One hunter has normal warforged version, one enhancement shaman has it. Druid tank doesn't have a use for it as main spec.

No real difference to competing with a hunter and/or another agility user in a 10 man guild.