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  1. #1

    PvP in this game is atrocious.

    Discuss your thoughts on just how bad the PvP has gotten in WoW, and how you think it's gotten this way.

    Disclaimer: It's fine if you still LIKE the PvP (I dunno why you would, but whatever), but there's really no argument that it's terrible. It was dropped from MLG circuits a couple years ago (Which is bad enough as it is. That's like saying you're too shitty for the toilet bowl), and now the PvP has gotten so far out of hand that even after a major debuff to healing in BGs and Arenas, they still needed to implement something (First it was the Crowd Chose You but that was so stupid and poorly designed they quickly had to amend it to something equally as silly and bad) to combat how powerful healing is. I don't think it's applicable, at this point in time, to try defending the PvP. It's dead, Jim.

    So, anywhos, let's hear some thoughts.

  2. #2
    Field Marshal Divinexve1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImportantLoreInformation View Post
    Discuss your thoughts on just how bad the PvP has gotten in WoW, and how you think it's gotten this way.

    Disclaimer: It's fine if you still LIKE the PvP (I dunno why you would, but whatever), but there's really no argument that it's terrible. It was dropped from MLG circuits a couple years ago (Which is bad enough as it is. That's like saying you're too shitty for the toilet bowl), and now the PvP has gotten so far out of hand that even after a major debuff to healing in BGs and Arenas, they still needed to implement something (First it was the Crowd Chose You but that was so stupid and poorly designed they quickly had to amend it to something equally as silly and bad) to combat how powerful healing is. I don't think it's applicable, at this point in time, to try defending the PvP. It's dead, Jim.

    So, anywhos, let's hear some thoughts.
    Awwww did someone get graveyard farmed... dawwww look at him guys

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Divinexve1 View Post
    Awwww did someone get graveyard farmed... dawwww look at him guys
    Thank you for this incredibly valid and intelligent post.

  4. #4
    The Lightbringer MasterHamster's Avatar
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    Doesn't sound like you want a discussion at all.
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  5. #5
    PvP's (mostly arena's) main problem is that it is far too comp-biased. You have a little leeway in 5s and even more in RBGs, but if you're trying to go for Gladiator/Hero, get the FotM comp, buy a carry, or go home.

  6. #6
    Warchief MrApple's Avatar
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    Its all about stacking the few op classes as much as possible and facerolling until something dies.
    Warrior ang mage comes to mind. Really bad balance for a select few classes but overall i kind of like how the system looks right now.
    Just nerf the retardedly op classes and its the best season so far
    Heard on the forums regarding Warriors in 5.4;
    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    YOU'RE the problem if you're having trouble with warriors, not warriors being overpowered.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by MasterHamster View Post
    Doesn't sound like you want a discussion at all.
    Discuss what you think lead to the current state of PvP. That's what I want.

    Of course it's not "Do you think PvP has gotten bad?" that's not even a question anymore. The second they included "The Crowd Chose You" they basically admitted they fucked up big time and anything short of massive re-scaling and editing of stats and classes is going to change it.

    Personally I think the issue all stems from stat inflation. Healing has become nanners, cast-juking barely seems to matter anymore, 2v2 is more or less dead, and in general, not much seems to make sense anymore.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImportantLoreInformation View Post
    Thank you for this incredibly valid and intelligent post.
    and thank you for making a thread about something that has been discussed into the ground already.
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  9. #9
    PvP by itself is pretty good in this game.
    Arena is another matter entirely. It was broken since day one and they just cant fix 2v2 and 3v3 no matter how hard they try.
    RBG was a step in the right direction, but about 4-5 years too late.

  10. #10
    Warchief MrApple's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bramickias View Post
    RBG was a step in the right direction, but about 4-5 years too late.
    The mistake they made with RBG was that they made it mandatory to get the best gear the fastest.

    Also letting people buy rating-gear by facerolling rbgs was insanly retarded.

    RBG is shit in my book.
    Heard on the forums regarding Warriors in 5.4;
    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    YOU'RE the problem if you're having trouble with warriors, not warriors being overpowered.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Bramickias View Post
    PvP by itself is pretty good in this game.
    Arena is another matter entirely. It was broken since day one and they just cant fix 2v2 and 3v3 no matter how hard they try.
    RBG was a step in the right direction, but about 4-5 years too late.
    I disagree completely.

    in TBC arenas were concise, to-the-point and made sense. It was all about how quickly you used CDs to stun or lock down a target, interrupt them, and then switch back to your main target to burn them down.

    Sure, it wasn't perfect, and there were always things unbalanced and wrong with it (like Rogue/Rogue/Rogue teams just chain blinding a target before the Blind DR nerf), but it made a hell of a lot of sense than it does now.

    Healers especially. Druids were always annoying, but in general, healers were mobility-based and went OOM fast, and it was all a game of the healer keeping away from the DPS while still healing. Now a healer can just stand there and spam massive heals, never going out of mana (even if they do, they keep casting anyways so why Mana even bothers to exist in the game at this point I am uncertain) and just basically takes not even a fraction of the thought or ability to play like it did back in Burning Crusade.

    WotLK, in my opinion, was pretty bad. Self-heals became incredibly rampant and this is where we first really began to see the whole "it takes 4 dps to take down a healer". But even then, the bare-bones of TBC was still there. Arena matches were still all about proper, break-neck reactions to interrupt/CC someone and then properly take down the main target.

    I didn't PvP at all in Cataclysm, but it's removal from gaming circuits and the fact the general populace recognized how bad it was getting pretty much let me know I wasn't missing anything.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by ImportantLoreInformation View Post
    I disagree completely.

    in TBC arenas were concise, to-the-point and made sense. It was all about how quickly you used CDs to stun or lock down a target, interrupt them, and then switch back to your main target to burn them down.

    Sure, it wasn't perfect, and there were always things unbalanced and wrong with it (like Rogue/Rogue/Rogue teams just chain blinding a target before the Blind DR nerf), but it made a hell of a lot of sense than it does now.

    Healers especially. Druids were always annoying, but in general, healers were mobility-based and went OOM fast, and it was all a game of the healer keeping away from the DPS while still healing. Now a healer can just stand there and spam massive heals, never going out of mana (even if they do, they keep casting anyways so why Mana even bothers to exist in the game at this point I am uncertain) and just basically takes not even a fraction of the thought or ability to play like it did back in Burning Crusade.

    WotLK, in my opinion, was pretty bad. Self-heals became incredibly rampant and this is where we first really began to see the whole "it takes 4 dps to take down a healer". But even then, the bare-bones of TBC was still there. Arena matches were still all about proper, break-neck reactions to interrupt/CC someone and then properly take down the main target.

    I didn't PvP at all in Cataclysm, but it's removal from gaming circuits and the fact the general populace recognized how bad it was getting pretty much let me know I wasn't missing anything.
    I dunno man, RNG stuns were pretty lame.

  13. #13
    It was dropped from MLG circuits a couple years ago
    but it's removal from gaming circuits and the fact the general populace recognized how bad it was getting pretty much let me know I wasn't missing anything.
    Just because the game got worse post-WOTLK (which it did) isn't the reason why it was dropped from MLG circuits and various other events (IEM ect).

    Its fairly common knowledge that it was dropped because Blizzard were too lazy to make a LAN client/tournament UI for them to use, they didn't make one until the regionals in June 2011.

    If I recall correctly, during TBC and WOTLK Blizzard handed out special accounts that only had access to tournament servers which were utilized for tournaments, also some tournaments were done via LAN.

    TBC/WOTLK was good, but not because it was balanced or w/e, but because everyone was so bad compared to today (even R1 players) that whatever comp you went against it was always beatable as there was room to outplay your opponents.

    In MoP/Cata various mechanics became so dumbed down lowering the skill-cap, so the feeling that 'I could have done this differently' is diminished.
    Last edited by Champxoxo; 2013-11-05 at 10:32 PM.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Raintola View Post
    I dunno man, RNG stuns were pretty lame.
    Well, sure. Mace Rogues and Bladetwisting was always stupid. There's not a single point in the game's history where PvP hasn't been stupid, and arguably, it's always been just varying degrees of terrible, but PvP as a whole in TBC was much more concise and knew what it was supposed to be. Stuff made sharp, easy sense.

    Now it's just turned into... I don't know. It's just kind of there. It's on par with playing some weird fan mod of a Source engine game or something.

    Just because the game got worse post-WOTLK (which it did) isn't the reason why it was dropped from MLG circuits and various other events (IEM ect).

    Its fairly common knowledge that it was dropped because Blizzard were too lazy to make a LAN client/tournament UI for them to use, they didn't make one until the regionals in June 2011.

    If I recall correctly, during TBC and WOTLK Blizzard handed out special accounts that only had access to tournament servers which were utilized for tournaments, also some tournaments were done via LAN.
    That's a nice official reason, but people were beginning to just see WoW as a game not meant to be taken seriously. It was dropped for a combination of equally good reasons.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by ImportantLoreInformation View Post
    Thank you for this incredibly valid and intelligent post.
    Well, I mean, that's kind of what I get out of it, too. It seems like the people who perform poorly in PvP are the most vocal about how bad it is.

    You made a thread saying that PvP is bad. Some people don't think it's bad. Where's the discussion? Your intention for this thread is the equivalent of a circle-jerk.

  16. #16
    That's a nice official reason, but people were beginning to just see WoW as a game not meant to be taken seriously. It was dropped for a combination of equally good reasons.
    Yep, that's also true. But I did read somewhere and Azael has also said that MLG originally intended for Cata to be in the circuit still.

    I'm sure that without Blizzards investment in the PvP scene WoW would have been inevitably dropped by MoP either way.

    - - - Updated - - -

    It seems like the people who perform poorly in PvP are the most vocal about how bad it is.
    Maybe on the WoW forums that's true, a myriad of people complaining that got ice lanced for 100k or w/e.

    But just go look on arenajunkies.com, take your pick of the 1000+ threads of multiple R1 glads complaining/actively coming up with ideas to fix the terrible state of the game since early Cata.

    The entire first season of MoP was ruined by RNG 300k heroic strike crits and BM hunters globalling people with stampede. Its not really a subjective issue.
    Last edited by Champxoxo; 2013-11-05 at 10:46 PM.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Belloc View Post
    Well, I mean, that's kind of what I get out of it, too. It seems like the people who perform poorly in PvP are the most vocal about how bad it is.

    You made a thread saying that PvP is bad. Some people don't think it's bad. Where's the discussion? Your intention for this thread is the equivalent of a circle-jerk.
    I'm not debating the issue. I don't need to debate it. If PvP was still any good, why did they have to implement The Crowd Chose You? Are you seriously going to try to make a claim that it's a good thing the PvP is at a point where they need to actually put in a time-limit buff to MAKE an arena match end?

    I need to say nothing nor make any case for myself. The hard evidence is very evident in itself.

  18. #18
    This expansion is all about fotm.

  19. #19
    pvp is shit because of kalgan and arena. get rid of both asap!

  20. #20
    Just bring back mace stuns and everyone will be happy.

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