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  1. #301
    Quote Originally Posted by LeperHerring View Post
    I have bolded the key point for you. That was Blizzard's first massive mistake and what started the steady slide of WoW into failure.
    Attunments were pointless and not fun in the first place. I don't see how Blizzard "failed" when removing them.

  2. #302
    Quote Originally Posted by Orcindauh View Post
    Why do you want it to be one difficulty? You do realize you never have to step foot in flex/LFR? You can spend weeks wiping on heroic SoO, nothing is stopping you.
    Funnily enough I am aware of that. And I tried it. And it doesn't work and it's not enjoyable.

    You bitch about not being able to progress in raids yet you have yet to step foot in heroic content.
    You bitch about multiple modes in raids yet you don't even have to step foot in half of them.
    You bitch about not being able to spend weeks wiping on a boss yet you have yet to step foot in heroic content.
    I cleared almost all heroics from WotLK to Cata when I was playing.

    You're just complaining just to complain.
    Complaining just to complain? Why would I do that? I'm not playing the game, I'm just explaining why I (along with most of my friends) left the game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Orcindauh View Post
    Attunments were pointless and not fun in the first place. I don't see how Blizzard "failed" when removing them.
    They made the progression linear. Removing them removed that linearity, meaning that you no longer had to clear end bosses. The immediate effect was that most guilds that hadn't killed Vashj and Kael by that point just skipped them entirely, and missed out on the two best fights in TBC.

  3. #303
    Quote Originally Posted by LeperHerring View Post
    I have bolded the key point for you. That was Blizzard's first massive mistake and what started the steady slide of WoW into failure.
    Please don't pretend that anyone liked atunements or that they were good for the game. Story can be told a number of different ways.

  4. #304
    Quote Originally Posted by mightyshaman View Post
    http://wowsnatch.com/wp-content/plug...%2Byounkin.jpg

    Just check the link. It's more than obvious how Cata/Mop destroyed the game.
    Based on that Wrath made it better then anything before, yet when people bring up issues of the game they were features of Wrath.
    Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before... He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. -Kurt Vonnegut, "Cat's Cradle"
    "Not everything on the internet is true." -- Abraham Lincoln
    Good is the enemy of great.

  5. #305
    Quote Originally Posted by LeperHerring View Post
    You don't like that kind of raiding? That's fine, you don't have to do it. But why do you not want to let me and my friends have that kind of content? And the WoW audience has decidedly regressed, not grown up. It seems to be a bunch of kids throwing crying fits if they are not handed everything for no effort.
    You do have that kind of raiding. Heroic raiding. You and your friends can do that content all you want.

  6. #306
    Is there a chance closing this thread? I would like to see the heads of idiots explode here. The whole discussion is based on an asshole who can not raid. Why dont you Idiots raid Siege of Orgrimmar?

    There is zero chance that the game will change in your favor. Iam sorry.

  7. #307
    Quote Originally Posted by fengosa View Post
    Ok, join a heroic raiding guild? There's no reason you can't have that experience just don't expect Blizzard to force your expectations on flex quality raiders.
    I was running a heroic raiding guild. It died, just like every other 25 man guild on my realm due to Blizzard idiotic "hey let's give the same rewards for half the effort" raid model in Cata. Heroic raiding does not give the same progression experience as TBC raiding did. It's challenging, sure, but it's not linear progression and just feels like a boring grind.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Marema View Post
    You do have that kind of raiding. Heroic raiding. You and your friends can do that content all you want.
    No. How many time do I need to explain the difference between heroic raiding and TBC raiding? Seriously, try reading and spend a few minutes trying to comprehend what you've read instead of trolling.

  8. #308
    Quote Originally Posted by LeperHerring View Post
    I have bolded the key point for you. That was Blizzard's first massive mistake and what started the steady slide of WoW into failure.
    That was the best thing they did to this game you mean. Do you want to go back and do heroic MSV/TeS before you can go into heroic SoO? No? Didn't think so.

  9. #309
    Quote Originally Posted by LeperHerring View Post
    I was running a heroic raiding guild. I died, just like every other 25 man guild on my realm due to Blizzard idiotic "hey let's give the same rewards for half the effort" raid model in Cata. Heroic raiding does not give the same progression experience as TBC raiding did. It's challenging, sure, but it's not linear progression and just feels like a boring grind.
    Realistically if you're playing the game the entire expansion you do the raids in order anyways? I don't see why forcing some people to do what most are already doing matters.

  10. #310
    Stood in the Fire
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    I agree mostly with the OP. And to the people that say 'if you don't like it, why don't you play another game?' , I can say, there are a number of good reasons why WoW's been losing subs over the last couple of years. I see those kind of remarks quite a lot, similar one is 'How does it affect you when someone else stops playing?'. If enough people stop playing, it does affect me.
    The opening post contains some of those reasons I think the sub numbers are down.

    Blizzard has said that the game starts at level cap and that levelling shouldn't be hard. Should it be mind-numbingly easy then?
    Last edited by Raysz; 2013-11-04 at 04:33 PM.

  11. #311
    Field Marshal leelad's Avatar
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    Not reading through 11 pages of arguments and counter arguments but i'd say (and i'm convinced that i am correct) that it's because you're nearly 10 years older and mentally and socially you're not in the same place you where all that time ago.

    I know i'm not. I have 2 kids and am 31 in a few days. I still get my kicks playing a month at a time and I can't praise the LFR feature enough for allowing me to still raid when it suits me and in small chunks and not have a group of other people depend on me to log at a certain time.

    Yeah my gear isn't amazing but an adult mind would accept that the game will likely grow and the gear I currently wear will be replaced by questing greens before long.

  12. #312
    Titan Kangodo's Avatar
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    Lets be honest, WoW in its current state is...

    Amazing, awesome, are those the words you are looking for?
    pretty horrible. Now I know that I'm just beating a dead horse here, and that this has been discussed a million of times, but what the hell, seems to be the go to topic nowadays, so I guess I'll drop my views on the problem and possible fixes to them.
    1. If the thread is beating a dead horse, maybe you shouldn't start it or post this in an already existing thread.
    2. "Possible fixes"? Don't fix it if it isn't broken.
    Difficulty.
    Group quests were also known as "invite your high level friend and get free awesome gear", good thing they got rid of that.

    Can I ask you what spec you were playing if you didn't have life-tap on your bars?
    Because my heirloom-geared Demonology alt goes out of mana quickly while leveling.

    All I see is one big rant about linearity and the removal of group-quests. What does that have to do with difficulty?
    And do you call it difficult because you have to find a class trainer because your abilities are 10 levels behind the zone you are running?
    If you really want to get into that "Classic feeling", you could just ask a random thug to break your mouse-arm. That's the same 'Classic feeling'.

    "Nowadays, you can realistically, after you hit max level just go to the AH, buy a couple of pieces to raise your iLvl , go do LFR and you're set. Damn."
    Really? Are you serious on that?

    Progression.
    Your view is really tainted, so don't complain when people call you nostalgic.
    Do you want to know my TBC path? Ding 70 > few heroics > Karazhan > Black Temple > Top DPS > SWP.

    "You doing LFR means, that you already fought the bosses, saw their mechanics, dialogues, lore in the LFR."
    Simple solution: DO NOT DO LFR!
    Why are people so blind to that simple solution to ALL of your problems? It's no freaking rocket science!
    You don't hit yourself on the head and then complain that the hammer hurts, this is exactly the same!

  13. #313
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Do you want to know my TBC path? Ding 70 > few heroics > Karazhan > Black Temple > Top DPS > SWP.
    Everyone posting on these forums is always "Top DPS". And what you described there is either getting carried or playing after the attunement removal, i.e., when Blizzard changed the model away from linear to their current failing model.

  14. #314
    The biggest Problem in this thread is: The OP trys to make his statement believable. And people actually believe in this bullshit.

  15. #315
    Funnily enough I am aware of that. And I tried it. And it doesn't work and it's not enjoyable.
    Many of the hardcore raiders today who have been raiding since the start disagree and still find it enjoyable.

    I cleared almost all heroics from WotLK to Cata when I was playing.
    Link me the armory of the toon you cleared every heroic raid from wrath- cata while they were current. Because I'm just going to take a wild guess and say you've only cleared LFR and based your opinion off of that.

    Complaining just to complain? Why would I do that? I'm not playing the game, I'm just explaining why I (along with most of my friends) left the game.
    You're bitching just to complain. You say "this game has no more progression raiding" <--- yeah okay, someone obviously has never cleared a heroic raid while it was current.

    They made the progression linear. Removing them removed that linearity, meaning that you no longer had to clear end bosses. The immediate effect was that most guilds that hadn't killed Vashj and Kael by that point just skipped them entirely, and missed out on the two best fights in TBC.
    Vashj? Best fight in TBC? Not even close lol. If they wanted to experience those fights, they would do so. You're just looking for ways to force players to do what you want them to do. The fights were old content, doing old content while it is old will never be as rewarding and satisfying as doing them when it was current.

  16. #316
    Mechagnome Kanariya's Avatar
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    As expected, the Blizz-can-do-no-wrong fanboys are in full force here.

  17. #317
    Bloodsail Admiral ShadowForge's Avatar
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    the reason for wow's downfall from previous expansions before cata is the fact that wow is gettingm ore console gamers on it and if they ccant 1 shot something or do something they bitch on the forums and ask blizz to fix it i mean look at how many times LFR bosses have been nerfed and LFR isnt even hard

  18. #318
    Quote Originally Posted by LeperHerring View Post
    No. How many time do I need to explain the difference between heroic raiding and TBC raiding? Seriously, try reading and spend a few minutes trying to comprehend what you've read instead of trolling.
    Pretty sure you're the one that is trolling now. TBC raiding was hard. Heroic raiding is hard. The only difference is the name it is given. You're too hung up on the words 'normal' and 'heroic'.

    While you and your friends are off playing candycrush me and my friends are having a good time and very glad that the BC days are over.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by LeperHerring View Post
    Everyone posting on these forums is always "Top DPS". And what you described there is either getting carried or playing after the attunement removal, i.e., when Blizzard changed the model away from linear to their current failing model.
    Just like everybody on this forum leads 25 man hardmodes until 'Blizzard' does something to screw it up.

  19. #319
    High Overlord Pippo89's Avatar
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    They need to stop such huge raids, better split up those number of bosss in different raids, not wings and much less linear!

    I'm playing since Classic, and yes I also admired Ulduar, but come on Throne hat 13 non-linear bosses on heroic and after that we get another non-linear 14 boss-raid. WTF???

    The only way to choose boss order in this gigantic raid is: Siegecrafter or Spoils. That's so lame. Every week the same "shit" in the same order.
    Ulduar just did it damn right! Blizzard said they'll make another like Ulduar and then they released Throne. Good joke blizzard...
    Ulduar had a great environment, good fights, hardmodes, it had optional bosses and a questline/hardmode-only boss.
    Even the teleporter system felt more logic, because you at least had to choose where to get teleported. T
    he new teleport system in ToT and now SoO just does not contribute to a good atmosphere imo... But that's not as important as the other things.

    Throne heroic: 13 bosses, 100% non-linear
    Siege of Orgrimmar heroic: 14 bosses, 90% non-linear

    The raids as a whole were not bad, I'm not saying that. But I don't understand why two big raids are released with almost no way to choose boss order.

    As someone said, 1 raid with 4 difficulties is just lame after a while.
    The first three raids were cool. Small, different themes and with delayed releases, yet ilvls not too far away from each other.
    They were non-linear too, yes. But at least you could choose which raid to enter!

    Vale of Eternal Sorrow could've been an extra raid, with the bosses slighty more tuned on Normal, especially the Sha of Pride. He's just too damn weak on Normal. Heck, I would've been happy if it's Terrace 2.0 (4 bosses, and they're easier than the other content - at least on Normal :P).

    After that, the real Siege of Orgrimmar raid could have started. But with more non-linear bosses like Siegecrafter or Spoils.. Galakras or Juggernaut first? Why not?

    I'm just a huge fan of alternation. I hate doing the same order over and over again. Especially within those huge raids.
    The roots of evil are deep. Irreversibly so in the hearts of men.

  20. #320
    Quote Originally Posted by LeperHerring View Post
    I was running a heroic raiding guild. It died, just like every other 25 man guild on my realm due to Blizzard idiotic "hey let's give the same rewards for half the effort" raid model in Cata. Heroic raiding does not give the same progression experience as TBC raiding did. It's challenging, sure, but it's not linear progression and just feels like a boring grind.
    Yeah, I'm just going to take a shot out of the can and say you never raiding heroics and if you did, you killed the first few bosses after the next tier had already came out and based your opinion off of that.

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