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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by tumppu View Post
    Any game I deem "pretty horrible", I uninstall/unsub. I suggest you do the same, because you really are beating on a dead horse (for you).

    Personally I still login pretty steadily, to do something here and something there. I never get the people who go on about "progression". Most games I don't play for progression, I play them to be entertained, to pass time and to have fun. As long as I can hit at least two of those, I'm not planning to quit wow.
    Progression can be seen different ways now a days I guess. You could call getting an achievement/getting more battle pets progressing. It depends on the person. But the idea of "progression" I had in my original post, was the reason behind actually having so much time to sink into WoW. You can basically call it a reason to log in. It can vary from person to person, but my reason to log was to do something that day. And it so happens that most of the time, that reason was to get that piece of gear from Mana tombs etc, so I can work my way towards the final goal.

  2. #22
    If you don't want to be accused of nostalgia, then give us a reason to not believe that.
    We call nostalgia when we see it, when there is blind support for earlier content and mechanisms in the game without any consideration for the bad parts, and immediate dismissal of any opinions to the contrary.

    You as a player are more experienced, so you will find content easier over time.
    The game HAS to cater to players reaching that content for the first time, and so will not be an ever increasing challenge for people like you.
    Quests, dungeons or any content for that matter is going to be easier for an experienced player, whether you have seen it a dozen times before or for the first time.
    The learning curve cannot be ever increasing, or it would benefit only long-term players, and would seriously hurt the experience for alts or new players.

    You don't want flamed, but present a narrow-minded, biased opinion with more of the same rubbish which prompts exactly that.
    Present a new and original, and perhaps valid argument and you might get somewhere.

    There are more options than ever for social interaction, but the community doesn't want it.
    They chose not to interact, they chose to exclude themselves and then complain about it.
    They demand excessive gear requirements, and strict schedules for organised groups, and then complain when people favour LFR without either of those.

    A community that chose very intentionally to create problems, but is so full of itself that it will blame anyone else.
    Last edited by ComputerNerd; 2013-11-04 at 12:46 AM.

  3. #23
    Elemental Lord Destil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by magicric View Post
    Spot on. Unfortunately this thread will either get closed cause Moderators don't like anyone bagging this game and or you will get a lot of people flaming you.
    ????

    Please tell me you're joking.
    Quote Originally Posted by Imnick View Post
    Mike Morhaine's definitely been using his body to sell copies of WoW.
    Writer and journalist for Adventures In Poor Taste (http://www.adventuresinpoortaste.com/)

  4. #24
    I keep hearing people complain about how easy the game has become, yet they all seem to ignore the fact that when you've played this game inside and out for the last few years, you'll be hard-pressed to find as much of a challenge in the game as you once did. Think about the inherent knowledge you now have about the game compared to Vanilla/TBC/Wrath. Look at the amount of resources and mods available.

    You complain about how easy it is, but really think about the changes you're proposing. The reason they removed group quests is because rather than doing them, most people just skipped them because they couldn't find someone to help them out until the had already out-leveled the quests. Pre-Cata most low-level dungeons were skipped entirely if they popped (Hello vanilla ST, BRD/Ulda/Mara/etc) due to the length of the dungeons. The majority of people didn't want to slog through Maur for the billionth time and the groups either fell apart before the dungeon was completed if they even attempted them.

    It comes down to the fact that the majority of people still playing the game are veterans. They've done the content many times over. Leveling a new character is a chore, and would be even worse if the content was harder since the majority of players take the path of least resistance. If they're leveling their 10th/12th/etc toon they don't WANT to do a bunch of group quests, or spend hours clearing pre-Cata Sunken Temple. They want to do whatever will level them the fastest.

    This in turn creates a problem for the truly new players (yes there are still some out there. I actually encountered one in Nagrand the other day while doing some Netherwing rep on my main) They don't know all the tricks you do. A brand-new player will try to kill an elite mob a couple of times before the give up and try to find someone to help them or move on all together. If the can't find someone they'll skip it. The person I encountered tried to solo Ring of Blood as a 64 holy priest. They even said that, had I not helped them out they would have skipped the quest.

    This idea that if you make the game harder the player base will miraculously improve is silly. Like it or not, players don't want the hardcore grind-fest experience from Vanilla/TBC that so many long for. If Blizzard actually listened to the vocal minority that clamor for harder content throughout subscription numbers would plummet, which some of you might think is a good thing when it actually means that the budget for WoW would shrink drastically and affect the amount and quality of the content they can produce.

  5. #25
    High Overlord magicric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Destil View Post
    ????

    Please tell me you're joking.
    No i'm not, there are so many posts here that get closed because they are negative about WoW.

  6. #26
    Stood in the Fire Chuckadoodle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Destil View Post
    ????

    Please tell me you're joking.
    Its called the de-evolution of forums..

    1) OP makes a well written post either liking or dis liking the current state of WoW
    2) 1 line respones supporting or not supporting the OP
    3) As the post gains steam, more replies to the OP with valid points either supporting or not supporting the OP
    4) posts continue, forum is civil for the most part, since it is civil OP responds to those who dont support his position
    5) invariably one of 2 things happen which then cause the de-evolution of the forum post
    a) Its all Ghostcrawlers fault and he should be fired..or...
    b) The moderators are all Blizzard Fan Boys/Girls and the thread will be closed because OP doesnt like the current state of the game.
    Ideally no one has ever hit the level cap of the last expansion, looked at their dungeon blues, and thought "I win."

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by ComputerNerd View Post
    If you don't want to be accused of nostalgia, then give us a reason to not believe that.
    We call nostalgia when we see it, when there is blind support for earlier content and mechanisms in the game without any consideration for the bad parts, and immediate dismissal of any opinions to the contrary.

    You as a player are more experienced, so you will find content easier over time.
    The game HAS to cater to players reaching that content for the first time, and so will not be an ever increasing challenge for people like you.
    Quests, dungeons or any content for that matter is going to be easier for an experienced player, whether you have seen it a dozen times before or for the first time.
    The learning curve cannot be ever increasing, or it would benefit only long-term players, and would seriously hurt the experience for alts or new players.

    You don't want flamed, but present a narrow-minded, biased opinion with more of the same rubbish which prompts exactly that.
    Present a new and original, and perhaps valid argument and you might get somewhere.

    There are more options than ever for social interaction, but the community doesn't want it.
    They chose not to interact, they chose to exclude themselves and then complain about it.
    They demand excessive gear requirements, and strict schedules for organised groups, and then complain when people favour LFR without either of those.

    A community that chose very intentionally to create problems, but is so full of itself that it will blame anyone else.
    Well, the reason I'm taking those nostalgic/oldschool contents and mechanism into the comparison, is because that's where the game flourished and had the least complaints.As was said "if it's not broken, don't fix it". The game found something in it for the experienced/unexperienced player alike and kept growing all the way without complaints about it taking too long, being too difficult, easy and so on.

    I have a lot of friends I know who started WoW from start, some who started at different expansions. Some casual, some hardcore, some in the middle. The people who started in pandaria(or without any prior knowledge of MMO's) and while they admittedly didn't find it as easy as I or my experienced friends did, they still agreed that the linear spoon fed questing was mind numbing and wanted something to break from the boredom. We helped them with showing them the cooler things of higher level, mounts and what not. Had we not, they probably wouldn't have even made it to 90.

    The game had bad parts at every given patch and expansion. Doesn't mean the positives of today outweigh the positives of before.
    Last edited by newlineGet; 2013-11-04 at 12:59 AM.

  8. #28
    Elemental Lord Destil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by magicric View Post
    No i'm not, there are so many posts here that get closed because they are negative about WoW.
    You man because 99.9% of the time they're the SAME exact thing whilst another thread is open about it, or nearly every time it ends in a flame war?

    Stand in a position where you hold a lot of responsibility and consider this:

    What'll happen if this thread stays open?
    Is the topic good enough for forum discussion?
    Will this thread end in a flame war?
    Is this thread simply trolling?

    Etc, etc, etc. I could simply go on with the reasons but I'm expecting your response to this being "No, you're still wrong, here's why."

    Tell ya what: if you actually respond to this and continue to not believe me, I'll but up a multitude of threads that are negative about WoW that're either still open or were locked due to it ending in a flame war.

    Sound good? Kay.

    Back on topic.
    Quote Originally Posted by Imnick View Post
    Mike Morhaine's definitely been using his body to sell copies of WoW.
    Writer and journalist for Adventures In Poor Taste (http://www.adventuresinpoortaste.com/)

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuckadoodle View Post
    Its called the de-evolution of forums..

    1) OP makes a well written post either liking or dis liking the current state of WoW
    2) 1 line respones supporting or not supporting the OP
    3) As the post gains steam, more replies to the OP with valid points either supporting or not supporting the OP
    4) posts continue, forum is civil for the most part, since it is civil OP responds to those who dont support his position
    5) invariably one of 2 things happen which then cause the de-evolution of the forum post
    a) Its all Ghostcrawlers fault and he should be fired..or...
    b) The moderators are all Blizzard Fan Boys/Girls and the thread will be closed because OP doesnt like the current state of the game.
    It will get locked because generally in this type of thread everything gets offtopic very fast and people start flaming. So it's easier to lock than try to moderate.

    Also, i'm still enjoying this game.

  10. #30
    Elemental Lord Destil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuckadoodle View Post
    Its called the de-evolution of forums..

    1) OP makes a well written post either liking or dis liking the current state of WoW
    2) 1 line respones supporting or not supporting the OP
    3) As the post gains steam, more replies to the OP with valid points either supporting or not supporting the OP
    4) posts continue, forum is civil for the most part, since it is civil OP responds to those who dont support his position
    5) invariably one of 2 things happen which then cause the de-evolution of the forum post
    a) Its all Ghostcrawlers fault and he should be fired..or...
    b) The moderators are all Blizzard Fan Boys/Girls and the thread will be closed because OP doesnt like the current state of the game.
    And this is a perfect example (including myself for adding fuel to the flames, unfortunately) of why the thread is going to be locked.

    Complete derailment.
    Quote Originally Posted by Imnick View Post
    Mike Morhaine's definitely been using his body to sell copies of WoW.
    Writer and journalist for Adventures In Poor Taste (http://www.adventuresinpoortaste.com/)

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abysal View Post
    There is actually a lot more to do in this game than there's ever been. Challenge modes, pet battles, brawlers guild, proving grounds, arena, battlegrounds, duels, dungeons, lfr/flex/normal/heroic, scenarios/heroic scenarios, leveling, tiller farm, timeless isle farming, world bosses, achievements (did I miss anything?). I suspect many people who are bored with the game barely have spent much time doing challenge modes or pet battles. Maybe they aren't for you. Fine. I agree that the progression model in MoP sucked. The devs have come right out and said they weren't satisfied with it either. But there definitely is lots to do in this game.
    The problem is (I suppose,hadn't invested much time into MoP) that most of what you said is very similar to each other,which is the reason players didn't really pay much attention to it;Challenge modes,pet battles,scenarios,lfr,farming,achievements.
    For example,challenge modes - The same thing as a normal dungeon except that you have a timer which requires you do the exact same dungeon except in less time,competing with yourself (and others on the useless leaderboard) so that you obtain a badly-designed and ugly looking transmog gear no one really cares about.
    Scenarios - Same thing as a dungeon.Enter the instance,go through the unimportant story,kill a load of mobs,get crappy rewards and get out.Except the fact that its 15 minutes long and focuses on a story.No real purpose for you do them.
    Heroic Scenarios - Eeeehh...
    Pet battles - .......
    Tiller farm - Alright I guess,didn't really serve much purpose apart from getting your own mats if I recall correctly.
    World bosses - Serves well for a time,but they were never really that big of a part of the expansion.
    Battlegrounds - Same as always.Apart from a few new designs in the battlegrounds themselves,we have never really seen anything motivating and groundbreaking.
    LFR - Still the Nb.1 thing people rant about since the Cataclysm.
    There wasen't anything especially new,something that players haven't seen before apart from,or something they have a special reason for doing.For example,things like Flex raiding automatically caught people's attention.
    Its the same old stuff just expanded and given a different name.And some old issues from the previous expansions are still present.
    "UFO's are as real as the airplanes that are flying overhead." - Paul Hellyer,former Minister of Defense of Canada

  12. #32
    Stood in the Fire Chuckadoodle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nebmyers View Post
    It will get locked because generally in this type of thread everything gets offtopic very fast and people start flaming. So it's easier to lock than try to moderate.

    Also, i'm still enjoying this game.

    Me too /10chars
    Ideally no one has ever hit the level cap of the last expansion, looked at their dungeon blues, and thought "I win."

  13. #33
    Nostalgia is a big part of it. You found yourself logging into the game in the early days because you were new at the game, so everything was fun and exciting for you. I found BC enjoyable, but looking back on it, you realize there was seriously nothing to do at max level. It was like Cata in terms of, you were bored within a month after hitting max level. At least now there is much more to do.

    Do I miss some of the things back then, absolutely. Do I wish they'd go back to certain things from the early days? Of course. But the game has evolved over the years and rightfully so.

  14. #34
    "Lets be honest" good way to kill a thread before it starts.
    You fucking what mate?
    Quote Originally Posted by Monoxide View Post
    I reported you, btw. Your signature offends me. Hopefully you're forced to change it and get an infraction. I'm going to follow your posting habits and given enough time I'm sure I can report you to the point of a ban. We'll see how you like it.

  15. #35
    High Overlord magicric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Destil View Post
    You man because 99.9% of the time they're the SAME exact thing whilst another thread is open about it, or nearly every time it ends in a flame war?

    Stand in a position where you hold a lot of responsibility and consider this:

    What'll happen if this thread stays open?
    Is the topic good enough for forum discussion?
    Will this thread end in a flame war?
    Is this thread simply trolling?

    Etc, etc, etc. I could simply go on with the reasons but I'm expecting your response to this being "No, you're still wrong, here's why."

    Tell ya what: if you actually respond to this and continue to not believe me, I'll but up a multitude of threads that are negative about WoW that're either still open or were locked due to it ending in a flame war.

    Sound good? Kay.

    Back on topic.
    Its up to the moderators to make sure the topic doesn't go off rail. They can tell people to get back to the topic just like we should be hehe instead of just closing it. closing it just seems more of an 'excuse' or a reason for them to close a threat that they don't like because it bags the game.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by newlineGet View Post
    Well, the reason I'm taking those nostalgic/oldschool contents and mechanism into the comparison, is because that's where the game flourished and had the least complaints.As was said "if it's not broken, don't fix it". The game found something in it for the experienced/unexperienced player alike and kept growing all the way without complaints about it taking too long, being too difficult, easy and so on.

    I have a lot of friends I know who started WoW from start, some who started at different expansions. Some casual, some hardcore, some in the middle. The people who started in pandaria(or without any prior knowledge of MMO's) and while they admittedly didn't find it as easy as I or my experienced friends did, they still agreed that the linear spoon fed questing was mind numbing and wanted something to break from the boredom. We helped them with showing them the cooler things of higher level, mounts and what not. Had we not, they probably wouldn't have even made it to 90.
    Bolded the part there that sort of broke down any chance you had at credibility.. Been playing since the launch of the game myself, still finding it fun, but I remember oh so very well the amount of complaints that came from the BC era due to technical bugs, unbalanced gameplay, so on so on. What you and so many others seem to overlook is just because the game is not what YOU want, does not make it a bad game.

    Every day we get people claiming to be such amazing raiders and WoW is the easiest game to raid in, and when you ask for them to link their armory to show their heroic kills of this expansion, they either stop posting or say 'I didn't do them because I already knew it would be easy.' You have others that only do LFR and claim that's what ruined the game, because clearly if I pick up a standard game, have the choice of 4 difficulties, I pick 'Very easy', then complain the game is too easy for me.

    I, as a player that PvPs, PvEs, RPs, and enjoys the lore, story, and theorycrafting, am greatly enjoying the game as it is today. Is it the best it's ever been? No. Is it enjoyable to the vast majority of people? Yes. You are perfectly fine in stating your opinion that you personally do not like it, , but claiming the game is in bad shape is pushing it.

  17. #37
    Scarab Lord Azutael's Avatar
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    If it is so bad then take a break or quit. I have taken many breaks from WoW myself when I din't find it very fun etc.
    Not everything was better before, not everything is better now. That's the nature of things in life, deal with it in whatever way best suits you.

  18. #38
    This post will probably be deleted because the mods don't allow negative posts about the game. They are all hired to keep selling the image that nothing is wrong with this game and everything blizzard vomits out is gold. Thats why nothing changes because sites like this and fanboys keep getting interviews with devs that dont ask the hard questions and literally just agree with everything that is said by developers. Meanwhile subscribers continue to plummet and most of the player base just jumps around Seven Stars.


    But I completely agree with you.
    Last edited by ManOluck; 2013-11-04 at 01:12 AM.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Brubear View Post

    Pre-Cata most low-level dungeons were skipped entirely if they popped (Hello vanilla ST, BRD/Ulda/Mara/etc) due to the length of the dungeons. The majority of people didn't want to slog through Maur for the billionth time and the groups either fell apart before the dungeon was completed if they even attempted them.
    That's one of the points I tried to address in my post. The "not want" part. I mean sure, we can shorten those couple of hour dungeons to a couple of minutes. Sounds good short term, but in the long term, when you're at the end of the tier with full gear you wished you had something more to do until the next patch comes around.

    As for the easiness part of leveling, I wasn't really trying to say that the game should be harder. Just less mind numbing. This can be done in various ways in terms of changing quest structure, changing the way mobs work etc.

  20. #40
    The Lightbringer Hanto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buxton McGraff View Post
    I don't like Call of Duty games, so I don't play them.
    You don't like WoW, but instead of just not playing it, you'd rather play it and be grumpy about it and cry.
    I was looking through the first page to see if there was something I could quote that accurately described the OP and man, this short-and-sweet response hit it RIGHT on the head (not to say others didn't, but this one was simple and short).

    I mean, if you're sitting there shelling out $15 a month but hating the game, that's a personal problem. Quit playing if you don't like it, plain and simple. Your $15 isn't going to mold the game into what you want it to be to suit you. Sounds like you need to really find something else and cut this self destructive behavior out.

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