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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by Wheeler View Post
    You must have been stuck in Molten Core, or you're just fabricating something you think would have sucked to bolster your argument. Sure, it was stressful - But it was also fresh and exciting, because nothing else at the time held a candle to the experience.

    Also, there wasn't much in the way of "Attunements" in Vanilla that were difficult. Ony and BWL? Those were done easily, and on ones own time.

    Also, the gear was incredibly easy to farm outside of Nature Resist, and even that was simply purchased off the AH. Blizzard made Frost Resist gear attainable through Naxx itself, so that was a cakewalk.
    Spending many hours total in 5mans farming FR is easily done? It was a pure RNG nightmare in vanilla. I killed the same bosses in BRD 10-15 times before getting 1 item from them, it got so bad we ended with running through about 20 different people over one day (I spent over 12 hours in game that day, almost entirely in BRD except for vendoring/repairs), and I still fell short of the required fire resist for my guilds MC runs (I got in because they were so short on people).

    BWL was easy enough attunement, problem was people not knowing if they had done it or not prior to raids, then holding a raid while 5-10 all of sudden realised they hadnt done it yet. Then factor in the Onyxa Cloak problem meaning progress was delayed for so many ony kills before you could continue in BWL. Vanilla was really just a farm/grind though to get into raiding, not overly hard just long or boring.
    Edit : I didnt make it to Naxx vanilla so cant comment on that part of vanilla.

    Problem with both Vanilla and TBC was poaching of players for other guilds. lower guilds geared/attuned them and then they hopped ship so quick and often it became a problem and guilds disbanded over it. Another big problem was how prized some items were (Dragonspine throphy, Aldori Legacy defender (gruuls shield?)) that people made too much of a deal over them, but there was no real alternatives available. Atleast now there is alternatives available even if a little below BiS.
    Last edited by Dazu; 2013-11-04 at 08:20 AM.

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by Dazu View Post
    Vanilla was really just a farm/grind though to raid, not overly hard just long or boring.
    The team didn't hit their PvE design stride until Naxx. A lot of the mechanics developed and used in that instance are basically copies of just about every fight in-game today.

    Mind controls, add control, add priority, void zones, burn phases, positioning phases.

    None of this really existed until Naxx. While I'm happy I'm part of the infinitesimal amount that cleared it pre-BC, it's unfortunate that a larger portion of the community doesn't realize how ground-breaking Naxx 1.0 really was at that time in WoW's life. Up until Cata the fights were basically the same mechanics. Now it's just those mechanics + extra action button.
    Last edited by Wheeler; 2013-11-04 at 08:17 AM.

  3. #123
    Dreadlord Winterstrife's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wheeler View Post
    You must have been stuck in Molten Core, or you're just fabricating something you think would have sucked to bolster your argument. Sure, it was stressful - But it was also fresh and exciting, because nothing else at the time held a candle to the experience.
    Cleared up till Heigen in Vanilla & Muru in TBC. Of course not much to boast seeing as how the guilds I lead never managed to clear the end bosses while it was the hardest content.
    But still I said it was bitch to raid lead back then, but doesn't mean I didn't enjoyed playing Vanilla/TBC, I'm just done with those expansions & never want to see the game go back into that direction.
    Last edited by Winterstrife; 2013-11-04 at 08:32 AM.
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  4. #124
    ...is still the best MMORPG out there by far.

    end of discussion

  5. #125
    Something has to be done with leveling, too easy, offers no challange which makes it feel too long (which is not, leveling is really fast in wow), since nothing can actually kill you during leveling, you never ever feel yourself in danger, thus making the entire process frickin pain in the ass.

    I was such a noob back then in Vanilia, died dozens of times to elites, too many mob pulls or that fucking windfury hitting raptors in Arathi, DAMN YOU ALL, but i never ever tought of "oh shit this is too hard, better go play some more Hello Kitty Online", i cant get my head around why the Devs think easy leveling is what newcomers want to see in the game.
    Last edited by Darksoldierr; 2013-11-04 at 08:33 AM.
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  6. #126
    Bloodsail Admiral dacoolist's Avatar
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    Good thread. A lot is being stated here, and a LOT of people aren't even going to read it, or even ENTER the thread because of the topic, and how many we get on MMO-C.

    The reality of this is though, Every single damn person who's played for 5+ years has thought the same way you do. You have to either change something up, or quit like the rest.

    I TBH, am LOVING wow. The amount of QQ, the amount of people quitting, the sheer amount of quality left is AWESOME!

    It's almost like the terrible people left, and Wow's left with people who: Make-It-Happen. (Oh unless they are bots.. hate bots )

  7. #127
    Did the OP not consider that the game today is focused around end game content, and not leveling, which is why leveling happens so fast and is so easy these days?
    Just wondering.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Darksoldierr View Post
    Something has to be done with leveling, too easy, offers no challange which makes it feel too long (which is not, leveling is really fast in wow), since nothing can actually kill you during leveling, you never ever feel yourself in danger, thus making the entire process frickin pain in the ass.

    I was such a noob back then in Vanilia, died dozens of times to elites, too many mob pulls or that fucking windfury hitting raptors in Arathi, DAMN YOU ALL, but i never ever tought of "oh shit this is too hard, better go play some more Hello Kitty Online", i cant get my head around why the Devs think easy leveling is what newcomers want to see in the game.
    I remember the feeling of playing a dorf hunter, and kill the level 5-7 elite wendigo in Dun Morough. Why was this awesome? Because it had a golden dragon around it's portrait, it didn't drop anything special, but was cool to best it!

    However, the game has changed. To the better, IMO.
    Quote Originally Posted by vep View Post
    Are you really looking for logic in a game that sends you dragons via the mail service?...

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by LeperHerring View Post
    Exactly! There is no progression in the current model. It makes no difference what you do in this patch because the next patch you will get a free ride and free loot anyway. As a result there is no meaningful progression, just continuous free rides and free loot. I just look at the game now and I ask myself: "Why would I want to pay for that?" And the answer is, I wouldn't, which is why I'm not subbed.

    What creates a sense of progression is knowing that what you're doing actually counts, because you can't just skip over it in the next patch. It doesn't matter if it's raid, 5 man or solo content. If you know that in order to get to the next 5 man you actually have to clear this one, and to get to the next raid you need to clear all the previous ones, and you know you won't be just handed a free ride and free loot in the next patch, then suddenly the content becomes much more meaningful.
    ^

    The rise of WoW started to end when they decided that everyone should see the same content at the same pace in the exact same patch. I'm personally completely fine with everyone having something to do (when you have nothing left to do it's obvious that you're going to quit), but I disagree fundamentally with this something having to be the same. When you have nothing to strive for and look forward to, you quit (at least until the next content patch), it's that simple.

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by newlineGet View Post
    I am not currently playing wow, and haven't been so since pretty much the start of pandaria.
    And yet you feel qualified to speak about what's wrong with it's current state? Get over yourself and play something else. Your wall of text is no different to any other boring bastards.

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    Yeah, yeah..yeah..this game is almost 10 years old. This is why it is dying. Flog a dead horse, tell us how it is dying. Show me another 10 year old game that didn't decline. Show me agame that from day 1 on...never lost subs or players, but increased and increased and increased...In fact..show me another MMO that has been going so strong over 10 years.
    EvE Online has been around longer than wow. It's never had millions of subs but has been slowly increasing over the past decade. It hit 500k subs last February, and has only ever been going up. Just wanted to throw that out there.

  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymfomania View Post
    Leveling is why people bot.
    Gold is also a reason

    And rep

    Or we can just make it simple: "Lazy people that want something for nothing is why people bot!"
    You cannot trust, nor take seriously, an adult male without facial hair.Boys have no facial hair and boys are not men.
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  12. #132
    I am Murloc! Fenixdown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by newlineGet View Post
    I am not currently playing wow, and haven't been so since pretty much the start of pandaria. You could say that I "moved on", but I still keep trying at the start of every expansion, oh well.

    I am not trying to imply that the game is for everyone, or will fit everyones needs. It just seems that people are more dissatisfied with the game than ever before, and possibly for legitamate reasons reasons at that. I'm just expressing my feelings towards the game that I love current state and how it might impact future gamers, games. I mean, the reasons behind the "unsubscribe until new patch comes out" is pretty plain obvious and so far to everyone that I've spoken has the unsubscribe or sit in stormwind/ogrimmar feeling more often than before. And no, it's not cause of burn out.
    No, it seems that more people are willing to post gripes on MMO-Champion. That does not mean more people are dissatisfied. In fact, many of the gripe threads are the same like, five or six people every single week.

    People that are happy with the game don't tend to start topics saying they are happy. However, that said, they will post in threads like yours. I would go on the record as to say in threads just like this, you'll see at least a 50/50 approval rating of MoP's design. Quite possibly higher.

  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by Mionelol View Post
    ^

    The rise of WoW started to end when they decided that everyone should see the same content at the same pace in the exact same patch. I'm personally completely fine with everyone having something to do (when you have nothing left to do it's obvious that you're going to quit), but I disagree fundamentally with this something having to be the same. When you have nothing to strive for and look forward to, you quit (at least until the next content patch), it's that simple.
    The rise or WoW ended when they made the game more difficult(cata), the peak was late wrath(and first few weeks of cata, which can be explained by people wanting to try the new xpack, sub numbers wont drop before game time expires)

    And before people say vanilla and tbc was difficult: the most difficult mechanic in vanilla was "walk away from the raid", tbc had some, but like vanilla, it was also mostly about gear
    You cannot trust, nor take seriously, an adult male without facial hair.Boys have no facial hair and boys are not men.
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  14. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by ldev View Post
    ...is still the best MMORPG out there by far.

    end of discussion
    I gotta agree with this. While there is plenty of room for improvement in WoW, most of it's competition just can't keep up.

    There are worthy mentions like GW2 which really kills it in the leveling department but shoots itself in the foot when it comes to endgame. This is the case with most other MMOs iv'e played. They are excellent in one department while being pretty mediocre in the rest.

    WoW manages to be good in just about everything it does, and it does this by copying the excellent features of all it's competitors, often refining them to be even better than the original.

    So while i agree with most of what the op says i don't see any drastic changes coming anytime soon. Even if it drops to 5 mil subs it'll still be the king of the hill as far as MMOs that require a subscription go.

  15. #135
    The game has died, to me (I no longer play WoW), when we lost the emersion of our character... Now we all have 4-10 characters on our character select screen, which makes it difficult to want to progress that 1 character and "bond" with it, but rather just a main with a slightly few more iLvl than our alts.

    I havne't felt attached to one of my characters since vanilla. It's been Alt central, and thats a problem that I think a lot of people overlook. Instead of making 1 character superior id rather just have half a dozen mediocre characters now, which led me away from the game.
    Free-To-Play is the future.

  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by Polarthief View Post
    The sense of adventure and triumph is completely gone when you can get from 1-90 AND geared with little effort.
    I lost my sense of adventure about the 14th time I leveled through Outland. I like leveling despite that but the only adventure you really find in leveling is at the start of an expansion.

  17. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by zoomgpally View Post
    The rise or WoW ended when they made the game more difficult(cata), the peak was late wrath(and first few weeks of cata, which can be explained by people wanting to try the new xpack, sub numbers wont drop before game time expires)

    2 seconds in paint so excuse the lazyness, but I'm too lazy to check the actual graphic. Personally, the blue circle is way more alarming than the green one (which is just a continuation of what happened in blue). Feel free to decipher it otherwise if it pleases you more, but that doesn't change what I said aka: it started to end.

  18. #138
    The best thing to do for you its just simply unsubscribe for some time and move on. After a year or more come back and see what has happened. Maybe you get a fresh vision for what the game has become then and, you start to enjoy it again. I did it. Skipped Cataclysm until Dragon Soul was half way through and I quite enjoyed it. I agree that alts have become a problem though. Too many alts ruin gameplay. At least for me. I've 11 90s on Alliance but only play 2 chars seriously.

  19. #139
    Stood in the Fire The King in Yellow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    Well then..like..play another game?

    It is not like WoW is an endagered species that everybody loves, like the Panda and goes out of their way to protect it. It you find the game so horrible..play sth else. There certainly must be some MMO out there who presses all your buttons.
    This exactly.
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    Stranger: Indeed?
    Cassilda: Indeed, it's time. We have all laid aside disguise but you.
    Stranger: I wear no mask.
    Camilla: (Terrified, aside to Cassilda.) No mask? No mask!

  20. #140
    You dislike the game, therefore the game is universally bad. Hooray for logic!
    Its as if I would say that I like the current state of the game( I really do actually ), therefore its universally good and everyone must like it. Logic?
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