Lets be honest, WoW's in its current state is...

[ManOluck]

I was looking through the first page to see if there was something I could quote that accurately described the OP and man, this short-and-sweet response hit it RIGHT on the head (not to say others didn't, but this one was simple and short).

I mean, if you're sitting there shelling out $15 a month but hating the game, that's a personal problem. Quit playing if you don't like it, plain and simple. Your $15 isn't going to mold the game into what you want it to be to suit you. Sounds like you need to really find something else and cut this self destructive behavior out.

Basically he is saying that if you are paying for mcdonalds you better at least think its fine dining or you are a hypocrite and shouldn't complain because Mcdonalds > fine dining.

[ComputerNerd]

Well, the reason I'm taking those nostalgic/oldschool contents and mechanism into the comparison, is because that's where the game flourished and had the least complaints.As was said "if it's not broken, don't fix it". The game found something in it for the experienced/unexperienced player alike and kept growing all the way without complaints about it taking too long, being too difficult, easy and so on.

I have a lot of friends I know who started WoW from start, some who started at different expansions. Some casual, some hardcore, some in the middle. The people who started in pandaria(or without any prior knowledge of MMO's) and while they admittedly didn't find it as easy as I or my experienced friends did, they still agreed that the linear spoon fed questing was mind numbing and wanted something to break from the boredom. We helped them with showing them the cooler things of higher level, mounts and what not. Had we not, they probably wouldn't have even made it to 90.

The game had bad parts at every given patch and expansion. Doesn't mean the positives of today outweigh the positives of before.

There is no reason to try and defend yourself against nostalgia arguments if you aren't guilty of it.
The game flourished largely due to lack of choice, both in-game and from alternatives.
It also was largely to the community which has gone downhill, most notably in the organised raiding.

Pugs used to be way more flexible, understanding of a real life getting in the way.
Now they aren't and will shove anyone with less convenient circumstances out of the way, treating them as second-rate and telling them to go to LFR "easy mode".

The game has improved, the community which is half of the experience has took a nose-dive.
You keep criticising the game, when the game is not the problem.

And you really do not want to be accused of nostalgia, when you are demonstrating it perfectly.
You present a one-sided positive argument on questing, when there is a lot more to it than that.

The questing then was very linear, but it was way harder to find that missing quest that was otherwise cutting you off from the rest of the chain in that zone.
There were still requirements for obscure or hard to find quests which were pre-requisites for something else.
It suited experienced players again, those who knew the content, knew where to find things which were otherwise not described sufficiently or even not described at all, being pure luck the first time.

If your opinions are so representative as you want us to believe, then the game would have less than a million subscribers by now.

I have been very capable of both supporting and criticising the game at various stages from as far back as vanilla/tbc to the current state.
But too many of the more vocal supporters of the old game are not, and present only a single side.

[Deleted]

Bolded the part there that sort of broke down any chance you had at credibility.. Been playing since the launch of the game myself, still finding it fun, but I remember oh so very well the amount of complaints that came from the BC era due to technical bugs, unbalanced gameplay, so on so on. What you and so many others seem to overlook is just because the game is not what YOU want, does not make it a bad game.

Complaints about bugs, unbalanced gameplay is different than complains about lack of reason to play the game.

[ThunderPussy]

If you're unhappy with the current state of the game then go play another game. Obviously they're doing something right if you're still playing.

[magicric]

I was looking through the first page to see if there was something I could quote that accurately described the OP and man, this short-and-sweet response hit it RIGHT on the head (not to say others didn't, but this one was simple and short).

I mean, if you're sitting there shelling out $15 a month but hating the game, that's a personal problem. Quit playing if you don't like it, plain and simple. Your $15 isn't going to mold the game into what you want it to be to suit you. Sounds like you need to really find something else and cut this self destructive behavior out.

I agree that if you don't like it you should stop playing it. Total agree with you 100%. I for one have stopped subbing to it because i stopped liking it.

I think what a lot of people don't realize is that most of us who have stopped playing the game, LOVED playing it a while ago and wished the game was back to its glory days. Not many games out there have been as huge as WoW has been to a lot of people. I know I definitely wished I could play the game and enjoy it but it has changed so much that a lot of people like myself have unsubbed. A lot of you will say its because the game is old but for me, it definitely wasn't because the game is old it was because the game has spiral downwards to a state that just isn't fun for me just like the OP stated.

[Deleted]

I was looking through the first page to see if there was something I could quote that accurately described the OP and man, this short-and-sweet response hit it RIGHT on the head (not to say others didn't, but this one was simple and short).

I mean, if you're sitting there shelling out $15 a month but hating the game, that's a personal problem. Quit playing if you don't like it, plain and simple. Your $15 isn't going to mold the game into what you want it to be to suit you. Sounds like you need to really find something else and cut this self destructive behavior out.

I am not playing the game. Doesn't stop me from still trying to support the game that I love and voice my opinion about it now does it?

Nostalgia is a big part of it. You found yourself logging into the game in the early days because you were new at the game, so everything was fun and exciting for you. I found BC enjoyable, but looking back on it, you realize there was seriously nothing to do at max level. It was like Cata in terms of, you were bored within a month after hitting max level. At least now there is much more to do.

The thing is, that it's not nostalgia. I can still find the game and it's content enjoyable. The problem is the length of which I'll be able to enjoy it. That has nothing to do with nostalgia.

[reef]

leveling is my favorite part of the game. i hardly spend any time at all with end game compared to the amount i spend leveling. i level classes i've already leveled and delete others. leveling is really where the heart of the game is for me. if that's all there was, i would still enjoy the game just as much.

[Mormolyce]

Could leveling be better? Absolutely. I find it dull as well. But it's not really worth their time to make it more challenging because the vast majority of people are either max level or just want to blast through it ASAP to get to max level. So the problem really is that you're kind of outvoted by the rest of the playerbase.

Vanilla - TBC - Wrath(possibly) : Okay, so at least for me, these were the expansions that I found myself logging on every day for the longest hours until the end of the expansion. Why you might ask? Because I felt an actual sense of progression, difficulty, fun and rewards. Back in TBC, after I hit level 70 on new alts I felt like I had a clear path - to get into Black temple/Sunwell/Kara(you name it). How did I achieve it? By baby steps. Hit 70 -> get all the possible best quest/rep gear(possibly buy something from AH) -> run normals until properly geared - > onto heroics -> get attuned -> run previous raids to get the latest possible gear before I stepped into the current tier. And all this while keeping me entertained also helped me find new people(no dungeon finder), and finally after so much effort help me reach the goal : to see the current tier, it's bosses, mechanics.

Ironically Vanilla and TBC had a tiny fraction of the amount of endgame content we have in MoP. Did you ever consider that you've played this game a long time and have just gotten bored? Grinding new alts to max level over and over might've satisfied you years ago when the game was new but obviously it's boring now.

[Hethiss]

I can't do anything but fully agree with the OP. Great post.

[Orcindauh]

Dungeons(I felt like this needed it's own space)? Oh my fucking god, what have they done? Dungeons used to be meaningful , fun, challenging and a key into the actual endgame. What are they now? Useless and boring. They are now just mass aoe fest, with a straight patern, easy bosses and overall useless(not only the normals, but also heroics). Nowadays, you can realistically, after you hit max level just go to the AH, buy a couple of pieces to raise your iLvl , go do LFR and you're set. Damn.

It's easy now just like it was in wrath.

Sadly majority of these so called "casuals" don't like hard 5 man dungeons. They tried making them hard at the start of Cata but it misfired. Kiss challenging 5 mans goodbye.

[Deleted]

There is no reason to try and defend yourself against nostalgia arguments if you aren't guilty of it.
The game flourished largely due to lack of choice, both in-game and from alternatives.
It also was largely to the community which has gone downhill, most notably in the organised raiding.

Pugs used to be way more flexible, understanding of a real life getting in the way.
Now they aren't and will shove anyone with less convenient circumstances out of the way, treating them as second-rate and telling them to go to LFR "easy mode".

The game has improved, the community which is half of the experience has took a nose-dive.
You keep criticising the game, when the game is not the problem.

And you really do not want to be accused of nostalgia, when you are demonstrating it perfectly.
You present a one-sided positive argument on questing, when there is a lot more to it than that.

The questing then was very linear, but it was way harder to find that missing quest that was otherwise cutting you off from the rest of the chain in that zone.
There were still requirements for obscure or hard to find quests which were pre-requisites for something else.
It suited experienced players again, those who knew the content, knew where to find things which were otherwise not described sufficiently or even not described at all, being pure luck the first time.

If your opinions are so representative as you want us to believe, then the game would have less than a million subscribers by now.

I have been very capable of both supporting and criticising the game at various stages from as far back as vanilla/tbc to the current state.
But too many of the more vocal supporters of the old game are not, and present only a single side.

There were alternatives. Guild wars, everquest, warhammer, aion(possibly). Didn't stop it back then.

On the community part. Yes, the community has largely gone downhill, I can agree with that. But their must be a reason for it? Doesn't the community largely evolve around the game though? Lets look at League of Legends for example, the game which has the regarded "worst community". LoL has a reason for having such a terrible community, due to the nature of the game and how it makes people rage and flame each other.

[Deleted]

Dude its not that the game turned bad it's YOU!! that just got bored of the game that is the only issue here, WoW is and will still be the best mmo out there and the way the game is today is to atract new players that are not so hardcore about griding quests and have houers just to put togheter a group and do dungeons, the same goes for lfr and flex WoW just evolved thats why its still number 1 bro,
So yeah i really sugest you to take a brake from the game or just play something else .

[Orcindauh]

Vanilla - TBC - Wrath(possibly) : Okay, so at least for me, these were the expansions that I found myself logging on every day for the longest hours until the end of the expansion. Why you might ask? Because I felt an actual sense of progression, difficulty, fun and rewards. Back in TBC, after I hit level 70 on new alts I felt like I had a clear path - to get into Black temple/Sunwell/Kara(you name it). How did I achieve it? By baby steps. Hit 70 -> get all the possible best quest/rep gear(possibly buy something from AH) -> run normals until properly geared - > onto heroics -> get attuned -> run previous raids to get the latest possible gear before I stepped into the current tier. And all this while keeping me entertained also helped me find new people(no dungeon finder), and finally after so much effort help me reach the goal : to see the current tier, it's bosses, mechanics.

Also: Nostalgia at it's finest.

Seems like you just love to grind. There's plenty of grinding still here.

[Mormolyce]

Well then..like..play another game?

I hear there's an awesome game you can play called "bitch on the forums for all eternity about the game even though you no longer play, and constantly bore people with your old man stories of how much better things were back in your day". It's a F2P browser game! Runs on any platform!

- - - Updated - - -

Also: Nostalgia at it's finest.

Seems like you just love to grind. There's plenty of grinding still here.

IKR?

Hey OP, go get this achievement:

http://www.wowhead.com/achievement=8728/

If you like grinding, this is something that will sand your scrotum clean off.

[Deleted]

Ironically Vanilla and TBC had a tiny fraction of the amount of endgame content we have in MoP. Did you ever consider that you've played this game a long time and have just gotten bored? Grinding new alts to max level over and over might've satisfied you years ago when the game was new but obviously it's boring now.

The difference is how fast the content can be consumed. More =/= more time spent. You can realistically skip the whole dungeon process(no matter attunements), and just LFR most of it, which cuts the process by a lot. And if you feel the need to do dungeons, they don't take long either now do they?

Let's compare: Do multiple dungeons that can potentially take up to 2-3 hours and then move on to the tiers before the current.

versus

do LFR and a couple of dungeons which take 20-40 minutes.

Which one will net you more game time, regardless of content amount?

- - - Updated - - -

I hear there's an awesome game you can play called "bitch on the forums for all eternity about the game even though you no longer play, and constantly bore people with your old man stories of how much better things were back in your day". It's a F2P browser game! Runs on any platform!

- - - Updated - - -



IKR?

Hey OP, go get this achievement:



If you like grinding, this is something that will sand your scrotum clean off.

You're seemingly getting aggressive, because of the fact that I'm trying to have a discussion on the current state of the game, which undeniably by the amounts of "unsubscribe until patch", "lack of progression" posts is a legitamate concern. I mean, if you don't enjoy the thread, and have beating this topic to death, then by all means, feel free to ignore this thread.

[theburned]

Actually I think the entire problem here could be solved by changing the ilvls of the system

imagine a system where normal dungeons gave 450 loot, you need 445 to get into instances, heroic dungeons were on the level of challenge mode dungeons yes quite hard in 450 ilvl, and gave 476 loot. LFR of the first tier gave 463 loot, the first tiers where 496/502 (509/515 hc) second tier LFR 486, second tier raiding 528 (541 hc)
third tier LFR 499 (potentially 502) and the raiding tier was 559 (572 hc).
flex being 20 ilvls under normal raiding.

in this scenario you can start out with doing normals, then decide to either go LFR until you can either do hc's or flex until you can do normals, or maybe if blizz would add a second tier of normal/ hc dungeons, making the hc dungeons on par with challenge mode content, though aimed at people 13 ilvls below the challenge mode downgrade. giving them an effective 26 ilvl upgrade chance. Thus being a quick way to get gear, though challenging.

[Polarthief]

Expect to get flamed by all the fans here :P

I've played since vanilla and I fully agree with the OP.

The only people who will disagree will be people who joined in Cata/MoP and this is all they know. The sense of adventure and triumph is completely gone when you can get from 1-90 AND geared with little effort.

[Orcindauh]

I've played since vanilla and I fully agree with the OP.

The only people who will disagree will be people who joined in Cata/MoP and this is all they know. The sense of adventure and triumph is completely gone when you can get from 1-90 AND geared with little effort.

Started in 2005 and I don't fully agree. He may have a couple good point but most of it is rubbish and garbage. Majority is pure nostalgia

[Deleted]

Expect to get flamed by all the fans here :P

True Fans would agree. Only a matter of time until the Casuals come in and want to be the Special Snowflake all over again.

[Wildmoon]

WoW must have been terrible since BC because I have seen these kind of thread since then.