Lets be honest, WoW's in its current state is...

[Adlian]

Agree with the OP. I hope they make gearing up abit more challenging. LFR was one of the worst ideas in WoW and i think it should be removed.

[Dvaldin]

I think that most of these posts aren't really about the state of the game, but are about the state of the playerbase - i.e. "I don't like it that people want to do things in really easy modes." That applies to just about (not necessarily all) every argument I've read about things people don't like in WoW.

[Aphrel]

agree iwth op 100%
I miss elite Qeusts... alot, questing as a whole is so much more boring nowdays.. and dont get me started on the soloable heroic dungeons...

[Deleted]

I don't like Call of Duty games, so I don't play them.
You don't like WoW, but instead of just not playing it, you'd rather play it and be grumpy about it and cry.

Yep becous they are some people what care about the game and hope for some changes in future. And best way to change things is talk about them. Sorry but of you think we will just stfu and go away you re wrong. You are maybe one of those what let others to ****on your head but i dont. I loved this game and will keep spaming till something will change. Blizzard alredy admint that theere could be option to remove end game bosses from LFR in future so dont tell me that this will not change anything.

[TrollShaman]

I think this is a bigger problem. Having several max level characters is no longer an achievement or rare, it's expected.

Since when is having a max-level character's an achievement? Altoholic players are most likely already available at the start of any MMO.

Personally speaking, despite some glaring flaws (PvP issues, state of LFR, etc) WoW's not in a horrible state, as I still enjoy the game one way or another.

[DechCJC]

^This.

Once more I'll say it:

WoW is a video game and unfortunately an online video game at that. Since so many people use it, and its numbers have far exceeded what Blizzard ever expected, they have to do what's best for the masses. Not everything they do is for everyone, but it does its job in trying to do so.

WoW is not for everyone. It has never BEEN for everyone. If it was for EVERYONE, EVERYONE would be playing it, no? EVERYONE who's ever tried it would still be playing it, no?

Move on then. Find another video game. WoW isn't suited for you any longer. Sorry to see you go, but once again I'll say it:

It's a video game.

Just because someone dislikes certain aspects of the game doesn't mean they hate it enough to quit; At least for me friends are a large reason why I play nowadays, I could really care less about raiding with my guild at this point (I still raid though), I just think that it's silly to immediately disclose any (potentially constructive, depending on how you look at it) feedback with 'Herp! Don't like it?! Don't play it!!1" <- That line is the most overused thing i've ever seen on this forum, what's wrong with wanting to see the game you used to love return to what you loved about it? We can all dream at least.

Obviously, as you said, they have to appeal to the masses; But is this the right way to do it? Honestly, HONESTLY; Who beats a game and says "Wow, that was fun, let's do it again on a harder difficulty!" - Sure, a few people do it, but most people will know what difficulty they want to play it on before they begin and they'll stick to it, once they beat the game they usually won't return (at least for a while, they may get the urge a few months down the road, kinda like me and skyrim). My point here is that with LFR, you've beaten the content, and for most people it's even further reducing the chance that you'll want to do it on a harder difficulty. I'm currently gauging my eyes out from doing heroic modes, it's not that it's too hard or too boring, I think the boss fights are really fun, but it does get a bit bloody monotonous after 2 months of the same god damn bosses.

Now, the chances are, i've just played the game too much and i'm burned out from it - That's very possible. I mean, i've seen literally EVERYTHING the game has to offer, i've played every class, seen every raid, pvp'd as most classes in different time frames, and i've watched the game evolve into something that is DESPERATELY trying to maintain its sub levels. I understand why they do this stuff, I understand why there's things like LFR in place, I KIND OF understand why leveling is so easy (ok, not really, I can't justify the difficulty of leveling, it used to be fun as hell questing with friends, now it's just a way to slow yourself down cause you 1 hit everything unarmed), but I still don't like it, I still honestly believe that the game would be of better quality if they weren't trying to appeal to everyone - MMO's need progression and something to aim for, you hear about something really cool and you wonder 'woah, how would I get to that place?' or 'How do I get that item?!' and then you go looking for ways to get there, atm, you don't even need to FIND the entrance to a raid, you faceroll to 90, do LFRs, beat the game. You have LITERALLY beaten World of Warcraft at that point, congratulations. Since when does an MMO let you run out of content that bloody fast? Doing the same content on a harder difficulty is not new content, it's boring. It's the same fight with a new mechanic or two and you have to deal with the normal mode mechanics with better execution, it's not that hard, nor fun - Doing it again, even after the first time, is not fun. TBC model master race.

Also, regarding some other posts, you can't compare things like CoD or The Last of Us, to an MMO that people have been playing for nearly 10 years.

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I just wrote the biggest pile of bullshit ever, please forgive me, I just went on a rant and i'm pretty sure what I said makes no sense, but fuck it i'm not proof reading it.

[Trunksee]

Yea I agree with the OP in a few ways. I was a player right up until Firelands came out. I was a heroic raider with a lot of time invested. It wasn't the content that pushed me away, it was good. But I felt no sense of accomplishment anymore. The game became bland as a rice cake with no flavor to me. I came back after a 4 month layoff and wanted to try LFR. I ran it 3 times in the first month, saw the content and was like well I saw all the bosses why continue. After Mists came out I was at a buddy of mines did and LFR for I think if I remember right the second raid. Was like ok I saw the bosses and whats the point?

A month ago I started on a Blizz like private vanilla server. Now I don't have the same amount of time as I did when wow came out because of real life but at least each piece of gear feels like a progression to getting further along. In the first week after I hit 60 I spam ran 5 mans. Each run had a chance to better my character and each dungeon had its wipes and run back but I met new people in the process. Im running MC, BWL, and the first couple of bosses in AQ40 now after a month and a half and the progression was a pain but I met people in the process and now I once again feel a bond to people and a reason to log in other than gear. I get on go do my farming for raids and gear all while actually chatting with people. Yea im forced to but now ive made more of a connection to the game other than gear and content. I want to log in to hang out with the other people in my class and guild.

When the game gets to much in the way of do it all yourself like wow is now, there is no reason why I want to log in and talk to people if I can do it all on my own and see everything. You literally have no need for a guild anymore. If your all about seeing content with progression you can resub a week after a patch comes out play for a month and done, or like I did just do it on a friends account for 2 hours of play time. Back in the day you had to keep progressing with other people and stay subbed. After a while of unsubbing you just stop coming back.

Right now the only way I am ever coming back is if they release true throw back servers. On my main ill log in run a few LFRs and spend the bulk of my time on the Throwback server. There are way more people who once played that no longer do than are subbed now. A lot would love the nostalga of playing what they remember. I love the private vanilla server im on but the bugs are annoying as well as the here and there crash. I as well as many others would love a true throwback server.

Maybe they will surprise me at blizzcon but I doubt it.

[melodramocracy]

I think this is a bigger problem. Having several max level characters is no longer an achievement or rare, it's expected.

A result of leveling, and most other elements of the game being accelerated.

[Deleted]

Even though TBC remains my favorite expansion, I love Pandaria. Sometimes good things have to leave room for better things, and sometimes changes are for the better. I used to be a much bigger hardcore player, and could easily put 10 hours into the game every day back in TBC, but do I really want that now? No, I feel like I've gotten older, and I've realized that there are more important things apart from the game. I still play it a lot, but I'm also happy that I can walk away and log off whenever I want to, for other things. It's not like in TBC where you really had to spend loads of time if you wanted to gear alts, or do anything.

I agree with a few things in the OP though, especially dungeons. Back in TBC and to some extent WotLK, you had reasons for continuing doing the daily heroic even when you didn't need gear. Reputation-factions tied to certain dungeons, and/or rewards from the daily hc quest. It's things like these that I really miss.

I played also WoW hardcore till MOP and end game Cata. Now i jsut play so check content and no becous they are more important thinhs in life. But becous WoW isnt worth my time. I just simple dont see any reason to raid HCs when i can see everything in LFR and spend rest of time in League of Legends. TBC was perfect. You wanted see content? Do something for it. You are too lazy or you dont have time to raid? Your problem your will not see content and people still played game 24/7. Onyl reason why would lot of casuals cry now if LFR would be removed is becous they get used to it. If Blizzard woul never introducted LFR nobady would ever compplain and WoW could have still 10m players.

[Marema]

Yes we all play the same games we've been playing for several years. We never get bored with something. We never get burnt out. I'm sure we all still play with our original <insert gaming console or old computer game> on a daily basis, because, you know, we don't get bored so therefore we must play those.

People really need to get over it. Game is 9 years old. Why on earth people think that somehow they are going to enjoy the game the exact same way today that they did 6+ years ago is absurd.

[Heffladin]

I think what Mists of Pandaria did most poorly was intergrating the new players into it's community in a meaningful manner. It's like they didn't learn from the catastrophy that was dragonsoul looking for raid. I'm not thinking LFR is the sole villain here, but continuosly adding features with the "press this button to get into matchmaking" was just a plainly awful idea. And then we have connected-realms, which is just a more publicly convenient way to say that they're merging select servers, as they cannot un-connect them. I think they focused on trying to do so many things that they thinned out too much, plus that they were doing the standard new race/class again. It's like when you ask of a player, what do you want for next <insert game here>, for example smash bros, "we want this guy as a new character", when they actually could have asked for something way more radical but people are just that conservative, and I think sometimes that, despite how ridicilous it sounds, blizzard listens too much to it's community, maybe indirectly by looking at their numbers. What I mean by that is that many players seem to think that this games decisions is a democracy, and if they complain loud enough they get answers from the dev team.

Other than that, I'd say that if you wanna try something new and be competetive, good luck getting competetive without spamming LFR for legendary quest. In other words a very alt unfriendly expac.

[Marema]

I think this is a bigger problem. Having several max level characters is no longer an achievement or rare, it's expected.

It's never been an achievement or rare.

[Thage]

If Blizzard woul never introducted LFR nobady would ever compplain and WoW could have still 10m players.

If Blizz never introduced LFR, raiding would have continued to look like Dragon Soul every tier due to the slashed budget and all the new art assets would have gone to accessible 5-mans, which would get their own tier approach a la Wrath of the Lich King and Cataclysm. I'd be down with that, sure.

[MrHappy]

few things

1) Questing.

If you wanted to see how bad questing used to be compared to now....go to outland. nuff said. Maybe it is not difficult as it used to be and quicker...but we also have almost a full set of BoA's and 25 more levels above what you used to be in vanila. Also questing SEEMED longer because you had a "wtf am I supposed to do now?" and go read on sites where now you are pointed in general area. Honestly if you take off all BoA's and bother to READ the quest text the story has gotten a hell of a lot better and since re-vamp in Cataclysm there are few quests that are very memorable (Questgiver quest and The day Deathwing came)...I don't remember very memorable quests in vanila except AQ stuff. Vanila was an endless grind fest. Think Shao Hao rep on Timeless island...but for everything.

2) Dungeons.

Yes they were harder and longer but again the difficulty was due to fact we had no BoA's to speak of. Compare the Damage/Healing output to a toon with and without and Dungeons just got a lot harder and longer. Length of time was also because you sat in trade "LFM for RFK need tank and heals" for 2h then had to fly/run there to summon have someone go afk/DC mid instance hearth to trade and repeat the process for 5h till you get the blue ring to replace the copper one you bought from ah/crafted it after 20min of farming ores.

CM were designed to give you a challenge. If you friends/guilds don't want that there is OQ and Openraid. Regular LFG is a break in questing and lore bits. Not meant to pose a level of difficulty

I agree that there should be a level of difficulty that you can scale if you are doing it with friends (kind of like Monster Power in D3) that could give more VP/JP more loot etc that is not just a timed run of CM but time will tell if we see something like that.

3)Personally I prefer hitting 90 and getting a set of epics that would allow me to run current content of LFR (a system like the gear you get from Timeless Island)

If I want my alt to raid I don't want to waste time running previous tiers to catch up to LFR of current content to run that for weeks to get gear so i can be of use in my alt runs on normal. It goes back to the point of vanila being a grindf est and artificial gateways in BC raiding. No I don't want my fresh 90 to take a month to even attempt current shit. Not everyone wants to/capable of getting carried in normals to gear me out (unless they desperately need it) I think catch up system like Timeless Island is a godsend for alts.

4) Personally I love what the game has become and I will continue to play untill I stop having fun. Before things seemed harder due to the time you had to put in not because it was actually required skill.

This game has been out for 8 years....it is only natural that some people get tired of playing the same game for that long and there is only so much that can be done to keep people interested in it. WoW isn't dying...some people's interest in it is...and that is fine. Play other games that make you happy and where you have fun. After all that is what games are about. There is no point in trying to get wow to change with "back in my day" stuff because it will continue to evolve whether you like it or not. Back in my day I had a 128 MB hard drive and saved my Word Docs on a 3.5inch floppy disk. Fact that I had to wait for my PC to display "It is now safe to turn off your PC" did not make it a better PC than what I am using atm. Things change , people grow up and move on. If you are not having fun OP look for something where you would

The game is not perfect but it is sure as hell a lot better than it ever was...by a mile and for a lot of people. If you are not one of them then the problem is your perception and not the game itself. I'm not saying your opinion is not valid ...just different from others who enjoy this game.

My suggestion is to take a break, play something else. We'll leave a light on for you if you decide to come back. I"m having fun in WoW and will stick with it untill I won't be

That is my $0.02

Cheers

[Alvito]

Well then..like..play another game?

It is not like WoW is an endagered species that everybody loves, like the Panda and goes out of their way to protect it. It you find the game so horrible..play sth else. There certainly must be some MMO out there who presses all your buttons.

But he once was willing to pay them around 15 dollars a month to play their game so now they owe him a great game that he will enjoy more and more until the day he dies.

[Orcindauh]

It's not grind. Manageable chunks. And I can avoid most of your steps regarding gear via LFR -> normals.

And you have to grind LFR unless you just get unbelievable lucky on drops. Your argument still stands flawed. You don't even have to run LFR, you can grind VP and JP if you wanted and go directly to flex or something.

There's plenty of grinding still here in the game, you're just looking for small pieces to bitch and complain about.

[Heffladin]

I don't know, I think the game feels a lot better than it did during both WotLK and Cataclysm. The game is still too quick and dirty, but it feels a lot less... Confused? Like the devs actually has a plan and general idea of what they want to do, rather than the little bit of everything mess we had in the past two expansions.

We still have a long way to go to reclaim the glory of old, but I'd say that MoP is a solid step in the right direction. I feel positive about blizzcon, and excited that Rob Pardo is back.

I guess you're right, but I mean, that was one of the things that had me excited. I think it being predictable is just plainly boring. I love surprises. Usually games tend to get more boring when they get more safe about how to do stuff.

[Deleted]

In terms of Subscriber's Population, yes. In terms of content gameplay e.t.c., No.

one is fact and the other is opinion. imho it´s still the best mmo out there by far

[Shiny212]

Completely agree with you.

[Ferocity]

If you make a thread saying that the game is awful because casuals aren't getting enough attention, you get heads nodding in agreement, and well something needs to be done before more folks leave, Blizz.

Problem is, casuals aren't getting enough attention.

Do you think every new player would enjoy starting game and have a feeling of being brutally pushed towards raiding as if there is nothing else to the game? Everything was sacrificed for the sake of raids - leveling, dungeoning, etc. Game eroded into "half-afk your way to max level", then raiding (starting from LFR) is THE only way to move anywhere. Developers are so much focused on arcade PvE arena (aka raids, I can't even call raids as dungeons as they lack proper layout and elements of exploration, not even speaking of anything else - they are just that: glorified arenas), they pretty much destroyed anything outside it.

People keep writing this because they want that Blizzard would finally listen to their common sense and return WoW back to "Game" status instead of "Arcade PvE Arena".

Yes we all play the same games we've been playing for several years. We never get bored with something. We never get burnt out. I'm sure we all still play with our original <insert gaming console or old computer game> on a daily basis, because, you know, we don't get bored so therefore we must play those.

I still regularly play Might and Magic games (RPG, not TBS ones) and some other old games. Games which aren't focused around pushing you to endgame as fast as it is possible. Game, which pushes its players towards its "endgame" at expense of everything else, can hardly be called as game.

I honestly hope that Blizzcon will show that WoW still can get out of that hole, where it is now, probably with help of Rob Pardo. I hope they will show us all their big guns. Because otherwise people won't buy Cata #3 expansion.