Who has said raiding is easy now? Apart from LFR (which isn't even raiding) and Flex, which is intended to be easy, I've seen no complaints about raiding being easy, or easier than it used to be. If anything, I see people noting all the time that raids are much more complicated now than they used to be.
I'm just unsure where this is coming from...
Those people ran LFR once.
People that complain that LFR is too easy and claim it as raiding have probably never stepped foot in a HM raid or even cleared a Normal raid. There's no legitimacy in their claims. They're just uneducated attempts to feign elitism, not realizing that they just look foolish.
Not really worth a thread, but hey, whatever works I guess
A lot of people consider boss mechanics when talking about difficulty, this is a big mistake. Raid mechanics are only a part of the difficulty. Arguments like "blah this is not hard, it just takes time and it's boring" are stupid. Mechanics are part of the difficulty. Willingness to tackle and overcome a tedious task is part of the difficulty. Commitment is a part of the difficulty.
Boss mechanics are harder nowadays than in the past. However everything else has been made trivial (the only exception about that being if you play in a world class guild and have to play, gear and farm for multiple characters, it may be more hardcore than in the past). A great deal of difficulty has been removed from the game, and raiding mechanics being a bit more evolved does not compensate for it in my opinion.
It must suck for those who have downed Garrosh on heroic or even normal mode, knowing that some scrub has gotten the same gear as you (with a slightly different colour glow) from just wiping their way through lfr - Talking aesthetically obviously. I remember when I first started raiding in TBC and getting some of my first tier pieces and thinking I'm awesome - Only to see someone roll by wearing the latest tier and thinking "One day that will be me!"
I understand Blizzards POV though - why waste money creating content that only 0.1% of the player base will see. But for me (as a semi casual raider/wannabe hardcore) I would much prefer to still be working on old content with the goal of completing the content. Then trying to do it on a harder difficulty.
Raiding isn't difficult today. There is a lot more stuff going on during a boss fight, yes, but once you see through all that visual noise, it's still just don't-stand-in-fire tactics with way more clutter. Additional mechanics like iron prison on shamans, eating bombs on juggernaut and stuff like that don't really push the bosses way ahead of what we had in bc or wotlk. So it's still just don't-stand-in-shit + x.
Also, you can't really blame Blizzard for classic raids, as they were based a lot on classic RPGs, which by nature required a lot of preperation. Now we have a more action-based game. Choose whatever you like more, but I don't think preparing for raids or specific bosses was a bad thing from an RPG perspective. This also made gearing a lot more interesting as you had more than one goal to achieve, because next to BiS gear, you also needed resistance gear.
Also remember, Blizzard got rid of this preperation stuff because people complained it consumes so much time to do all that stuff. And now people want actually stuff to do outside of raids. I know, those will most likely be different persons who complain here, but still this shows there is no perfect path for Blizzard to take. And if there is, the chances are it's not the current path.
Last edited by Efrye; 2013-11-04 at 06:37 PM.
I have been playing since vanilla closed beta. I must agree with the OP about the preparation part. And that is what brought fun and challenge to the game. About easy encounters - not so sure. Razorgore fight still brings some painful memories =) TBC was hardcore and epic at the same time. Lich king was ok but at that point most player base got older and split into two groups: hardcore raiders required challenge and hm.. hardcore, and forums whiners getting owned by the game in both pvp and pve. Since then, closely to the end of LK the nerfbat brought down the game to the casual level we all know. I dont do raids anymore, only lfg. And, being a 32 years old person I am still having fun in the game. I guess its just the way things work...
Likewise, I played since vanilla, and I remember farming Felwood for raid consumables. Not sure it was better, but it certainly felt like I was contributing to the raid success outside of the raid.
One of the hardest things in Vanilla was managing a group of 40 people and actually gearing them up through each raid tier in order to advance to the next, without people quitting for other raidgroups and forcing you to take a few steps back again. I've seen raids who could take down Nefarian forced to go back to struggling on bosses in Molten Core simply because too many people stopped showing up or jumped to a different raidgroup.
So yeah, aside from the actual bosses everything else about raiding was so much harder back then. And I honestly don't agree that bosses were easy in Vanilla either, yeah perhaps Molten Core. But I think Chromaggus, Nefarian, Twin Emperors, C'thun and Four Horsemen were quite difficult for their time, to name a few.
What people are also forgetting about Vanilla is that you had a LOT less situational abilities, so the game was much less forgiving if you made a mistake or if you didn't maximize efficiency. A few healers throwing their heals at the same time and overhealing would result in a short period of time where the tank got 0 heals, this often meant a wipe. Now all classes have a lot of situational abilities in order to overcome these problems, more instant heals, more shields, more things like Cloak of Shadows and whatnot. These abilities make raiding now easier than Vanilla.
Last edited by Hardstyler01; 2013-11-04 at 06:48 PM.
Damaging objects or abilities that should be avoided to decrease player manageable damage to the raid
Unavoidable damage in some form to either tank or raid that must be healed.
Do x amount of damage to hostiles during the encounter in y amount of time.
Things that must be crowd controlled, kited, or dealt with in some manner other than damaging them.
Anything else is just a combination of the above.
Where players start to feel overwhelmed is when they get hit by (must position the boss here and not dps him so he doesn't heal while not standing in the stuff right where the boss should be while climbing up on a platform and popping a cooldown for the known damage burst coming to the tanks while healing avoidable damage that the raid is running through during a non avoidable raid wide aoe burst), and forget that it is just a string of simple raid mechanics that they are in some way in control of managing the outcome following that chain of events by handling them AS the single individual events that they are.
Obviously some aspects are "easier" because we have 4 difficulties, The HM rankings tend to suggest raiding is not easier
"It’s not the job of the artist to give the audience what the audience wants. If the audience knew what they needed, then they wouldn’t be the audience. They would be the artists. It is the job of artists to give the audience what they need."
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My conclusion is that the game is different. Good or bad? Up to the player. I like WoW's current state, but also liked it in the past just as much, for different reasons. I changed, the game changed - I'm one of the lucky people who has gotten mostly what they wanted out of the game when it was available at most points in time. Other people haven't been so lucky. WoW may not be their game any longer. That is all.
Last edited by Dat Guy; 2013-11-04 at 07:31 PM.
In my opinion like other ppl said is that the hardest bosses are the ones that have:
1) A lot of mechanics together (Multitasking, aka: Paragons of the Klaxxi can be an example)
2) A combination of mechanics, dmg and movement.
3) Extremly high raid dmg.
4) Long fights with many phases that has different mechanics, raid dmg, movement.
5) All of the above getting executed by a medium large/large number of people without flaws or minimun quantity of flaws.
But overall I think Multitasking is the hardest part when it comes to a boss so IMO Blizzard should do more Paragons of the Klaxxi bosses if they want to keep the progression slow or relatively slow.
Last edited by Xeh.-; 2013-11-04 at 07:30 PM.
I group the people saying "raiding is easy now" to the same group of stupid fucking idiots as I do the people who say "lol it was just tank&spank before"
Last edited by Gehco; 2013-11-05 at 12:22 AM.
Modern gaming apologist: I once tasted diarrhea so shit is fine.
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