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  1. #261
    Quote Originally Posted by KBWarriors View Post
    LFR isn't difficult and tanks aren't leaving because they're treated like crap in LFR, they're treated like crap after every wipe. They're leaving because would you rather deal with a bunch of AFK DPS and people who for the most part speak no English for a 528 ilvl or would you rather form a group with competent people and be rewarded with ilvl 540 in Flex? The majority of casuals have moved to Flex Finder mode, leaving only the AFKers, the incredibly bad (mostly ungemmed/unenchanted/not reforged) and the Portuguese playerbase to run LFR.
    First people complain about nerfs to normal and heroic. Now they complain about nerfs to LFR. I am not sure what your problem is with Blizzard nerfing LFR.

    If you want a challenge, there are challenges out there. If you are not doing LFR, why are you complaining so much about LFR. And finally, what has the ablitity to speak English got anything to with it. Last time I checked, English is not the only language out there.

  2. #262
    Herald of the Titans Packers01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    His statement was not even wrong, it was meaningless and irrelevant.

    Flex mode is, in practice, easier than LFR right now.
    Flex is not easier then LFR. It's the player that make flex easier. LFR is trash and the is for the LCD of the wow community.

  3. #263
    LFR is really nothing more than an exaggerated version of a heroic dungeon: 25 people and much longer. It shouldn't be any more difficult than a heroic either.

    OK, so it's not raiding. That's fine.

    Blizzard should really think about designing it from this point of view. It might help them to get the difficulty right.

  4. #264
    Quote Originally Posted by l33t View Post
    Flex actually IS easier than LFR, because you can create a moron-free group, which is plain impossible in LFR.
    yeah great logic, might as well say heroic is easier than LFR because you're in Method or blood legion etc.

  5. #265
    I might hold a minority opinion here - but I think progressively nerfing LFR is fine with how low the participation is - not to mention that Flex and Normal raids get a lot easier as the average ilvl of people in those groups continues to increase across the tier - whereas LFR will always harbor players with the bare minimum 496 gear and geared players will graduate onto higher difficulties with no reason to come back (flex at least has a social aspect to tie people in)

    I always thought it was kind of weird that DS got a 5% nerf every month but LFR remained the same throughout the tier. I think they're applying the same philosophy here of progressively nerfing the content to keep participation levels up

  6. #266
    The Insane det's Avatar
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    Well...I notice that players who are deep in normal and even more who are in HMs tend to flash their sig with their toon.

    Don't see much of that on the crowd that pisses on LFR and ppl who do LFR. So...would it be too much to ask to see your character if you are so against LFR and the nerfs, because it would be awesome if at the same time you also don't wear LFR gear. And no..in my book "Oh my guild forces me" - "I only did it for that elusive item" is no excuse.

    You have a guild, you can steamroll flex. You laugh at LFR because irt is no challenge, then do your raids without LFR items if you truly want that challenge.

    At least Blizzard did put some resemblence of a challenge for a group that doesn't communicate into LFR initially. I swear on the day that an x-pac ends without a LFR nerf, there will be people complaining how that shows that LFR was too easy to begin with.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    One cause is a cognitive bias called projection bias. Essentially living inside your own head your entire life makes it exceedingly difficult to understand how others do not also live your same life, think your same thoughts, and hold your same beliefs. In many cases it's quite frustrating to try to empathize and understand why you yourself may not be the center of the universe, which generally results in one 'acting out' in various ways.
    So, in short: the internet.

  7. #267
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    The problem is, Blizzard's answer to players struggling with boss mechanics is simply to nerf them so much that they are so forgiving to the point of being redundant.

    This is bad, because:

    Bosses will all be tank & spank with mechanics you can largely ignore. (Unless you are the tank, where the relative deficit in knowledge, between the tank who needs to know a lot and DPS/Healers who know nothing, will only increase).
    All bosses will therefore be very similar and therefore less interesting and more boring.
    LFR will be less useful as a tool to learn the boss fights. I found doing LFR was a good preliminary way of learning boss fights ready for flex. When no one pays any attention to the mechanics, you don't learn anything.

    Instead of nerfing the mechanics to the point where they can be ignored, Blizzard need to find new ways of demonstrating to players what it is that killed them or forced them to wipe, and what they should do differently. We need better warnings, a built in DBM (some people still don't have it!). These things would make a better difference, and rather then removing obstacles, you are equipping people with dealing with them.

    Cheers.
    "If you look out of the window as a human being, at nature, all of nature is unconditionally and absolutely beautiful wherever it is. Whether it's a jungle. Whether it's a desert. Whether it's the Arctic wastes. Or even your own back garden. The only ugly things you will ever see when you look out of the window are things made by man." - Stephen Fry

  8. #268
    Quote Originally Posted by Tamerlane2 View Post
    And yet its the LFR defenders who say LFR is literally designed for bad players who don't want to get better. Its not elitist to just recruit a team of players who are capable of beating Flex bosses, its just common sense. Like if you were picking players for a weekend bowling league you'd pick people who can get more hits than gutter balls.
    No LFR player ever said that. Most say that they like LFR because they can play without a schedule. Hop in when they want and drop out if something comes up, even in the middle of a fight. Thats why many like it. And easy loot of course.

    And you are right, it's not elitist to recruit good players but it is elitist to come to the forum and say "You know, only baddies play LFR. Us really good players, we play flex".

  9. #269
    The Insane det's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by l33t View Post
    Flex actually IS easier than LFR, because you can create a moron-free group, which is plain impossible in LFR.
    You can run it with your guild? Unless your guild has morons, which would explain why also Flex runs can and do fail.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    One cause is a cognitive bias called projection bias. Essentially living inside your own head your entire life makes it exceedingly difficult to understand how others do not also live your same life, think your same thoughts, and hold your same beliefs. In many cases it's quite frustrating to try to empathize and understand why you yourself may not be the center of the universe, which generally results in one 'acting out' in various ways.
    So, in short: the internet.

  10. #270
    Pandaren Monk Faithshield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by l33t View Post
    Flex actually IS easier than LFR, because you can create a moron-free group, which is plain impossible in LFR.
    Flex runs can and do fail, and when wipes happen loosely made flex groups quickly disband. Unlike LFR where it can take a long time, but you will eventually succeed no matter what.
    "If you look out of the window as a human being, at nature, all of nature is unconditionally and absolutely beautiful wherever it is. Whether it's a jungle. Whether it's a desert. Whether it's the Arctic wastes. Or even your own back garden. The only ugly things you will ever see when you look out of the window are things made by man." - Stephen Fry

  11. #271
    The problem is that already most people in LFR play semi afk giving 50% if not less and knowing that every week bosses are even easier won't help in changing that behavior.

  12. #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faithshield View Post
    Flex runs can and do fail, and when wipes happen loosely made flex groups quickly disband. Unlike LFR where it can take a long time, but you will eventually succeed no matter what.
    The chance of failing is quite low with people asking 540+ just to get into it

  13. #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    Tell that to the stressed out average and good players trying to gear up alts that sit for hours hitting 4 - 10 stacks on bosses because people can't seem to adapt to the mechanics.
    And there lies the problem.

    Everyone's undergeared, unenchanted alts are part of problem as well.

    LFR should not be required to gear up an alt in preparation for an alt run, and myself aside, I know many people who have stopped putting much time into gearing alts to get ready for flex solely because of having to do it in LFR.

  14. #274
    So how many people, exactly, would be torn up about LFR going away and Flex raids taking their place?
    If you are particularly bold, you could use a Shiny Ditto. Do keep in mind though, this will infuriate your opponents due to Ditto's beauty. Please do not use Shiny Ditto. You have been warned.

  15. #275
    The level of pretentious in these threads is disgusting. If you're commenting on this subject, or made this thread, and have any thought along the lines of "it's only LFR", then you're the problem. Saying LFR is only for bads is myopic and daft, I consider myself better than the average player yet I LFR it up all the time, why? Because I have a wife, a child, a job and triple major BUT I still need some down time (or I'll lose it, holy shit). LFR fits perfectly. If you don't like it, or if "it's only LFR", then stick to your challenge modes, flex runs, normal or heroics and leave the rest of populace alone. It's not that hard.

  16. #276
    Quote Originally Posted by l33t View Post
    Flex actually IS easier than LFR, because you can create a moron-free group, which is plain impossible in LFR.
    It is not about creating a moron-free group, it is about a higher likely hood of gathering team oriented players who are willing to pull their own weight instead of being selfish dbags passing the buck to others.
    Quote Originally Posted by LilSaihah View Post
    So how many people, exactly, would be torn up about LFR going away and Flex raids taking their place?
    I personally dont have an issue as I stopped both now and it might shift more development back to five mans. Given that LFR is already in place I see more of a reason to further gut it and maybe even kill the raiding aspect of it as it just doesnt work out with players who have no interests in working together as a team and learning mechanics. If that is Blizzards target audience then the developers need to cater to it directly instead of shoving the burden on those who are trying and team players. LFR shouldnt be stress less for only those who pass the buck to others.
    Last edited by nekobaka; 2013-11-05 at 07:15 PM.

  17. #277
    Quote Originally Posted by Faithshield View Post
    Bosses will all be tank & spank with mechanics you can largely ignore.
    There are people who enjoy tank and spanks and zerging down bosses. Maybe more than you imagine. Agree that there should be more internal use of raid warnings in LFR with short but specific instructions. LFR doesn't need to be a mystery. Eventually Blizzard will figure this out.

  18. #278
    Titan Kangodo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LilSaihah View Post
    So how many people, exactly, would be torn up about LFR going away and Flex raids taking their place?
    As long as Flex comes down to "Link heroic achievement and 550-gear" I have a problem with that -_-'

  19. #279
    Quote Originally Posted by bewsh View Post
    LFR should not be required to gear up an alt in preparation for an alt run, and myself aside, I know many people who have stopped putting much time into gearing alts to get ready for flex solely because of having to do it in LFR.
    If it wasn't a significant step in the gearing process for a lot of folks, queue times would be even higher. Causing even fewer people to bother with it.

    Which kind of defeats the purpose of it existing to begin with.

    And again, the community talks out both sides of its mouth, by getting on forums and saying "LFR needs to go away / shouldn't be mandatory / L2P bads", and then getting in chat and requesting 540+ for flex run candidates.
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  20. #280
    Quote Originally Posted by LilSaihah View Post
    So how many people, exactly, would be torn up about LFR going away and Flex raids taking their place?
    My guess would be : Everyone who runs LFR now instead of flex.

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