Page 19 of 23 FirstFirst ...
9
17
18
19
20
21
... LastLast
  1. #361
    High Overlord titcch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Silvermoon EU
    Posts
    184
    Quote Originally Posted by Ilara View Post
    But why? The only time I've ever hit 3 stacks in SoO was on garrosh the first day it was released. I know you don't go LFR for the challenge but this makes it way too easy.
    "On the first day" usually has heroic players joining in for any loot they miss (tiers/trinkets) where as that starts to die down once progression is over, etc.

    LFR = Tutorial
    Flex = Easy
    Normal = Medium
    Heroic = Hard

    I guess is how it's intended and unfortunately it seems to be Flex before LFR these days. It needs a nerfing.
    WoW Retired (December '13) - Titchy@PS4

  2. #362
    There is no target audience - that's the idea, it's for everyone. As a result, it is at a level where the lowest common denominator can gain something from it.
    It's like a professional footballer moaning that some random 5 a side is playing their sport in the local park. The park is there for everyone, not just 'the top'.
    From my viewpoint, If you want to have a nice community, you should help them. Make a learning curve not too much "hard", but trying to give them to improve when they are just playing a game and having some fun.
    To improve, you need to fail sometimes, and that's something that every game has.
    Maybe, the direction of the game doesn't give anything to player to improve, just build some "walls", and only the people that know how to improve, or just have time and skills can pass that. But that's a design problem.

  3. #363
    Quote Originally Posted by Tikaru View Post
    Why do people who don't participate in LFR care what happens to it?
    Because LFR could be fun if it wasn't filled with so many terrible people.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler

  4. #364
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Because LFR could be fun if it wasn't filled with so many terrible people.
    It is fun with terrible people.

  5. #365
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerraw View Post
    Cataclysm showed that without the easier access to loot that Wrath's heroic dungeons, and now LFR, delivered, people simply quit the game.
    This could only apply to the last tier, since there was no easy access to loot in Cataclysm before that. And do you REALLY think subs would have done better in the last tier without easy access to loot? Most players would have been "done" even earlier.

    Blizzard has always had problems with the last tier of an expansion. MoP is not looking to be an exception. And 60% of players aren't raiding in SoO at all (not even LFR).
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler

  6. #366
    Because LFR could be fun if it wasn't filled with so many terrible people.
    Good point here.
    With some tools to improve and give o this people something to make an step in the right direction [bad people--(learning)--->not that bad ///repeat until being good people.] would be a nice support to the game.

  7. #367
    Stood in the Fire Mcaffee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    494
    LFR is now so bad Blizz should just place a tourguide NPC at the entrance have it walk you through the place and at the end give you a goodie bag with some shinnies in it.

  8. #368
    I am Murloc! Firebert's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Dat Ingurlund, brrrrrap
    Posts
    5,220
    Quote Originally Posted by Zantos View Post
    No. People in lfr can easily get away with not trying and slacking a lot easier then they can in any other mode.
    It's the easiest mode. This is circular logic: people can slack because it's easy, it's easy because people are allowed to slack. The problem here is that there are no checks and balances against this, but Blizzard don't want to exclude anyone from raiding regardless of skill, and it's quite difficult to differentiate between those two situations.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zantos View Post
    No, a ton of players do that in LFR.
    No, very few players do that in LFR. Personal experience vs personal experience, I'm awaiting hard evidence.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zantos View Post
    Ok? I never once mentioned a number. Just that you can easily get away with it in lfr.
    "Most people" implies a majority, which is at least 13 people out of 25.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zantos View Post
    Most LFR runs do fail.
    Proof of this? Also, depends on your definition of fail, does getting one stack of Determination mean a failed LFR run?
    Quote Originally Posted by Zantos View Post
    But there are usually one or two people that Do not care and wont try or will just afk.
    So, a tiny proportion, not "most people".

    Quote Originally Posted by Zantos View Post
    Oh I don't know, the fact that the boss has HP!! And a berserk timer! That is where its listed. The fact that the boss Can enrage if he is not killed fast enough. Then what happens, he wipes.
    That's not a knowledge requirement, that's a damage output requirement. I've been playing my Mage in LFR a lot and I'm using Frostfire Bolt and Fire Blast in my rotation simply because I'm bored of stack four charges Barrage. It's implied that I don't know how to play my class. I still break 100k often, where the enrage timers require an average of 60k per DPS.

    There is no requirement to play your class "correctly" in order to enter LFR. If any wipes happen then I used to say low DPS had to go but with Determination everyone can now get through the bosses with enough wipes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zantos View Post
    Im a tank. The leading cause of me not joining LFR is the poor attitude of players, and the amount of players that will not try and just afk.
    I was a tank, I've stopped simply because of all the blame that's permanently shifted onto me for other players' mistakes. Personal experiece vs personal experience again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zantos View Post
    Typing in all caps so they will see =/= shouting at them. It means they are not paying attention or seeing it otherwise.
    Or they'd much rather concentrate on what's going on on the rest of the screen than a tiny chatbox in the corner constantly spammed with informaton from varying sources.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zantos View Post
    Yes, they can and that is why LFR fails more often then not. That is why I won't do LFR. Because they have the same attitude as you and then fail miserably.
    Source on a <50% LFR completion rate? I think only Blizzard has this information, but again, depends on your definition of "fail". Also, I min-max my character where I can, check me out on Ask Mr Robot, I'm fully optimised. Most of my LFR runs are smooth. My attitude is to do my best. What you extrapolate for the rest of my attitude is simply just me stating the conditions on which LFR is run.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zantos View Post
    LFR is here to stay because removing it would mean that they admit it is bad. If raids are not good, players will not stay. This isn't up for discussion. If they do not make end game content, or good end game content, then people WILL and do quit. LFR will not change the fact that it has to be done if they want players to stay.
    Some would say that Pandora's Box is open and can never be shut again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zantos View Post
    I can see you wont listen. You are the type of people that has ruined LFR. "Its easiy, why should I care?" Because if you don't care the good players won't continue to carry you.
    Lol. I'm one of the few people that's keeping LFR alive. It is easy, but I care because I don't have any other form of raiding to do, LFR is my content. I carry the raids, not the other way around.

    Thanks for the response.
    37 + (3*7) + (3*7)
    W/L/Death count: Wolf: 0/1/1 | Mafia: 0/5/5 | TPR: 0/2/2
    SK: 0/1/1 | VT: 1.5/3.5/5 | Cult: 1/0/1
    Legendary Overlooked

  9. #369
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post
    The thing is that WoW isn't a game that you just learn. It requires constant study to keep up to date. Stat priorities and rotations don't remain steady for the duration of the expansion; they even change from patch to patch. Each raid boss is unique with its own set of mechanics. For enthusiasts that's no big deal. For a casual player who just wants to log in and kill a few bosses before heading off to bed, it's just not worth it. I don't think that players who refuse to min-max are lazy; they just have better things to study than mechanics for a game. If you honestly think that anyone is being handed gear then you should actually give LFR a try. Yes, you can be carried through fights, but you can be carried through heroic fights as well. That doesn't change the fact that someone had to put in significant effort to get that boss to drop their loot. Saying that Blizzard is "handing bad/lazy players nerfs/gear just because they refuse to learn the game" does a disservice to the majority of people in LFR who actually do their best and power through those fights. Maybe you should pay more attention to your own head's whereabouts and less to Blizzard's.
    I can relate to this. Six years ago I knew the mechanics and the numbers just like I know the palm of my hand, I even discussed about with my former college friends. Nowadays I barely have time to play WoW, working so hard on my masters degree, and when I do, I use the tool (LFR) built for people like me. Why should then I be punished for not knowing today which gems are the best or if I don't have the X reforge? Why should anyone be punished on a game, as in an entertainment tool for what was designed, that they pay each month?

    Yes, there are some "bads" that truly refuse to accept that they are bad, but there is a larger number of "hardcores" that are struggling on Normal and yet they cry about something that doesn't affect them.

  10. #370
    Over 9000! Glorious Leader's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    In my bunker leading uprisings
    Posts
    9,407
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerraw View Post
    Cataclysm showed that without the easier access to loot that Wrath's heroic dungeons, and now LFR, delivered, people simply quit the game.
    To be honest I can't understand why they ever moved away from the wrath model. It wasn't broke, didn't need fixing. It was bloody fucking brilliant.
    Last edited by Glorious Leader; 2013-11-06 at 11:45 AM.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  11. #371
    Quote Originally Posted by KBWarriors View Post
    or would you rather form a group with competent people and be rewarded with ilvl 540 in Flex? The majority of casuals have moved to Flex Finder mode, leaving only the AFKers, the incredibly bad (mostly ungemmed/unenchanted/not reforged) and the Portuguese playerbase to run LFR.
    I lol'd , I understand where your coming from making things easier will not make people better Raiders ..If blizzard had a backbone and said no ! we don't raiding Becoming easier for casuals a couple of years ago and stuck to it maybe the skill level across the whole board would have been raised just by simply adapting and learning

  12. #372
    I am Murloc! Firebert's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Dat Ingurlund, brrrrrap
    Posts
    5,220
    Quote Originally Posted by Belisaurio View Post
    With some tools to improve and give o this people something to make an step in the right direction [bad people--(learning)--->not that bad ///repeat until being good people.] would be a nice support to the game.
    Some people would rather quit than be forced through a tutorial session before they got to the same content everyone else did because the game did a poor job at teaching you the "right" way to do things. This is the dichotomy: either they let everyone in and they keep the millions of monies a month because everyone's consuming content or they start gating it more and start losing out on some of the millions of monies a month because people can't experience the content and quit, which has a knock-on effect of reducing the size of the following raid if enough quit.
    37 + (3*7) + (3*7)
    W/L/Death count: Wolf: 0/1/1 | Mafia: 0/5/5 | TPR: 0/2/2
    SK: 0/1/1 | VT: 1.5/3.5/5 | Cult: 1/0/1
    Legendary Overlooked

  13. #373
    Over 9000! Glorious Leader's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    In my bunker leading uprisings
    Posts
    9,407
    Quote Originally Posted by Firebert View Post
    Some people would rather quit than be forced through a tutorial session before they got to the same content everyone else did because the game did a poor job at teaching you the "right" way to do things. This is the dichotomy: either they let everyone in and they keep the millions of monies a month because everyone's consuming content or they start gating it more and start losing out on some of the millions of monies a month because people can't experience the content and quit, which has a knock-on effect of reducing the size of the following raid if enough quit.
    You make it sounds as if the developers would ever do the later. I mean if they wanted to keep their jobs.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  14. #374
    I am Murloc! Firebert's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Dat Ingurlund, brrrrrap
    Posts
    5,220
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    You make it sounds as if the developers would ever do the later. I mean if they wanted to keep their jobs.
    I think Blizzard are scared of doing the wrong thing.
    37 + (3*7) + (3*7)
    W/L/Death count: Wolf: 0/1/1 | Mafia: 0/5/5 | TPR: 0/2/2
    SK: 0/1/1 | VT: 1.5/3.5/5 | Cult: 1/0/1
    Legendary Overlooked

  15. #375
    Moderator LocNess's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Indiana, United States
    Posts
    3,132
    Eh who cares. Yeah it won't fix people not knowing how to play their class or not bothering to learn the fight, but that can't be helped. I think Proving Grounds could be a good way to block off all of the terrible players in LFR, but Blizzard said they wouldn't do that.

  16. #376
    Quote Originally Posted by Flutterguy View Post
    So? Maybe those guilds should advertise more or try their own incentive plans to get new raiders if they're so desperate that they're looking to the LFR crowd for recruits.
    Its harder to offer incentives when LFR gives away for free most of what a low to mid tier raiding guild could offer.
    -regular access to raiding
    -the chance to see and kill bosses
    -shiny epics

    Raiding is what got me hooked on the game and kept me playing for years instead of just weeks or months. And I didn't just wake up one day and decide I was going to a hardcore raider. It was just a gradual progression of wanting to see those cool bosses in the Nihilum kill videos in person.

    And yes, some people probably would need to recruit from the LFR crowd. Everyone has to start somewhere.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by reemi View Post

    Why do tank leave because of wipes, if the game is too easy, when it's easy, you just don't wipe. So it's not easy. You will always need to deal with AFK, bad or whatever you want, so if most LFR failed, Blizzard will reduce the difficulty after a while.
    Being afk wasn't really a regular occurence in raiding prior to LFR, except during trash sometimes. That shit got noticed pretty fast. But then people were more invested in even a pug raid then, because it required more effort to join than pushing a button and waiting for 30 minutes.

  17. #377
    For all we know LFR got nerfed 0.0000001% since Blizzard doesn't put percentages on their shit.

  18. #378
    Good, makes it easier to carry the LFR monkeys. The easier the better, LFR is made so literally every max level character can see the content , some people aren't able to do the simplest of things so LFR should really be easy as hell.

  19. #379
    Quote Originally Posted by Tauror View Post
    I can relate to this. Six years ago I knew the mechanics and the numbers just like I know the palm of my hand, I even discussed about with my former college friends. Nowadays I barely have time to play WoW, working so hard on my masters degree, and when I do, I use the tool (LFR) built for people like me. Why should then I be punished for not knowing today which gems are the best or if I don't have the X reforge? Why should anyone be punished on a game, as in an entertainment tool for what was designed, that they pay each month?
    Punished? Is that really the word you want to use as someone going for their masters?

    It's part of the game to understand how gems and stats affect your output. It's opportunity for maximum output gains. It's slightly more interesting than equipping a piece of gear and never thinking about it again.
    Even if you hated this system, it takes all of about 3 minutes to figure out what is generally used for your class online thanks to guides.

    It's ridiculous what people see as "punishment" today: traveling, leveling, dying, group quests, BoP, professions, etc.

  20. #380
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Because LFR could be fun if it wasn't filled with so many terrible people.
    This is true..

    Last night I just left a LFR not cause people were bad, not because we wiped once but because of THOSE people...and my GF came home..

    THOSE people..ahh yes..Sorry this is long...

    TL;DR The fuck did I just read? cool story bra! It's trying to communicate.

    I can deal with people not knowing fights and not asking, I can deal with people just doing their thing barely paying attention cause I can't blame them. SoO LFR is boring, I always found it more fun raiding with guildies and friends where we would mess around over the actual fights being fun cause tbh I've raided every tier sans FL, Blizzard has run out of fresh new ideas for encounters a looong time ago.

    It's these people..

    The Carebear - I've seen this quite a few times, you'll have some kid trying to wipe the raid at every chance they can and no offense they're USUALLY from Kel'thuzad US, people will attempt to kick the problematic player either cause they're trying to wipe the raid or are just holding the raid back, The Carebear will usually stop the kick claiming that it's "mean" and we're all "a bunch of jerks". Which is the less obnoxious version of...

    The Tank's personal ass cleaner - They usually pretend to know what they're doing and usually are the most vocal. They'll blame ANYONE OR ANYTHING besides the tank. The tank could be removing all their gear, running to the middle of the room keyboard turning in circles spamming trololoololololol and this..person..will say "Why is the DPS so bad!" then follow it up with "why can't you people watch a YT vid it takes 10 mins" or "I've done this before on flex/10/25...on another character (OFC)". Example.. Garrosh. Some hunter took the reins. Typical strat. RDPS goes from Red to purple when axe is tossed, kill axe. TANK GARROSH ON THE GREEN, kill one Engi, blah blah blah.

    5 wipes...

    1- Tank ran to east jesus no where with garrosh. Desecrations all over the place "Why are the RDPS not where I told them to be"
    2- Tank kited Garrosh around the room. Desecrations now in a nice line following him. "WTF RDPS! Why can't you stay where I told you N00bs!"
    3- Tank ran TOWARDS the purple. "Dps is so bad lolol"
    4- Tank tanked Garrosh ON the red. "God you DPS suck, STACK ON THE PURPLE MOVE TO RED!" I noticed the tank was doing it wrong for the 4th time in a row..waited to see how long it would take till someone said something about the tank.
    5- Same EXACT thing as before. "Holy crap it's not that hard! Go watch a yt video or read a start it's quicker than wiping for hours" Then kinda like an "I'm spartacus" the sullen DPS spoke against the almighty tank. "umm how are we supposed to move to the red if the tank is tanking garrosh on the red"

    dead silence..

    Both tanks leave.

    Hunter gets all pissy and says we're mean, that he knows the fights and has done them before. Someone brings up he's only pulling 37k dps..as a hunter...which leads to..

    Mr/Ms. If I make enough noise maybe people won't notice how bad I am AKA it came from XBL - you know them, they're a staple to raiding. They're in your guild. They used to be just rogues now it's mostly mages and hunters. They will NEVER EVER switch targets or move out of stupid. They're always pull big numbers but when you stand in one place doing your rotation it's really not that hard. They are terrible at this game and just FotM class hop. They will be the first to call out people making claims such as "If you have more than 50% damage on Nezgrim you're a n00b" as if they are the only person in the world....of warcraft who has discovered Recount or Skada cause when you look at their damage it's usually 99% Nezgrim. They'll usually die to swelling pride or the big dino's (brain fart) charge. You can speak their language easily randomly replace adjectives or verbs with the words fag, geh and n00b.

    Mr/Ms "my guild did this fight so naturally I can lead a raid!" - usually they too are in your guild. You know them. Best friend of an officer, GF/BF of the MT, Top DPS or healer, the GL's brother. They aren't very good..at all...but you have to raid with them because..well.."guild couples". So they sit in your raids cause you can't have on without the other and no one wants to tell them how bad they are. Then they come to LFR with this false sense of greatness and attempt to tell people how wrong they are doing things when they themselves are just...yeeeah I mean if someone is bad..fine I'm not perfect but there's a difference between being bad and being bad and thinking you're gods gift to WoW. They have this air of elitism, yet they're in LFR with the rest of us "scrubs"

    The "tank" - Note not a Tank but someone who thinks they're a tank cause that what they selected in the queue. Them plus the ass cleaner and the carebear it's just...wow. I've had a tank in a mish mosh of prot and ret PVP gear with a green weapon who was some really random spec. No one wanted to kick them cause they didn't want to wait in the queue. I've had a healer try to blame me for a wipe cause apparently Ret is the new prot and since the OT was off in east jesus nowhere as the Jailer ran to me cause I hit it with a judgement and then well wipe. The garrosh story. It's the "just cause your class can fill a role doesn't mean YOU should be playing said roll" It's like a new breed of Prima Donna Tank Syndrome almost as bad as it was in tera's US launch. "Tanks" don't care they could AFK in fights and people will kick everybody BUT them just cause they don't want to wait in a queue then when they ARE kicked they'll run to a forum and claim that everyone is so mean to the tanks.

    I read the forums so I'm better than you guys aka The Waaaaahbulance chaser - The worst of them all. oh you know them...look around on this very site. They're the same people who will bitch about barrens chat cause of what they read if someone so much as says "lulz" in general. They'll bitch about how easy raiding has become and how progression is a joke but all they do is sit in SW/Org and bitch in trade never having set foot in a raid themselves. They'll make asinine claims of "how things were in classic" cause apparently recounting events of the past makes you more "elite" no matter how wrong they are. It's this weird thing wow has..people read things 4th or 5th hand on the forums and think "if thats how people say things are on the forums I have to act that way in game or people won't think I'm cool!" All they do is bitch and moan and whine in raid cause since they read people suck in LFR they're going to keep saying that people suck in LFR. Had that last night...the tank actually...never did LFR but had no quams telling people how bad they are at it cause it's LFR.

    And if you made it this far...

    After all that crap you put up with in LFR you, well I, more often than not will get the "Everybody wins..but aww we're fresh out of loots so here's the boobie prize. 12-15 gold and 5 motes which with two gathering professions is SO USEFUL!"

    I and others do LFR not cause it's "Easy" cause we don't really want to or can't dedicate the time to raid with a guild but do enjoy raiding...or in this case..we'll call it "large scale group combat". Usually it's a time limitation where RL has gotten in the way of WoW, when you spend a while in the queue only to get into a raid spend as long as you can in there and realize your wow time would have been better spent doing dailies, heroics and scenarios. At least the first heroic and scenario give you bonus rep and trash drops give you enchanting mats which sell for more than you get in the boobie prize bags AND you get Justice points say if you need BoA gear or god knows what seeing how JP is as useless as VP at this point....almost..VP is a bit more useful.

    I forgot where I was going with this.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •