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  1. #241
    Elemental Lord Snowraven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    Tell that to the stressed out average and good players trying to gear up alts that sit for hours hitting 4 - 10 stacks on bosses because people can't seem to adapt to the mechanics.
    And this is the issue. It's not that people "can't adapt to the mechanics" but... they don't want to. They don't even try. And yet Blizzard has decided to cater to them even if they show no will to improve and they show they don't even really care about the game and will leave it after they've done the raids in LFR a few times. Horribly business model, but that's only my opinion of course.

  2. #242
    Stood in the Fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    Tell that to the stressed out average and good players trying to gear up alts that sit for hours hitting 4 - 10 stacks on bosses because people can't seem to adapt to the mechanics.
    dumb that is required to run LFR imo

  3. #243
    People seem to forget this but lfr is done by more players then all the other modes combined. So who are they catering to? They are catering to the majority of their players and the idea of telling them to just get better is absurd. The entire problem is and has been for a while that raiding is the entire end game. Not having other options and leaving it as the single option leads to players that should not and maybe even do not want to be raiding to be raiding. Blizzard needs to expand it's ideas and provide more content for players that want to do other things and provide a out for lfr that works.

  4. #244
    All those big nerfs seem a little unnecessary, all the fights were already incredibly easy, even for LFR. Is it really that bad to whipe atleast once or twice in a wing? Especially the later ones?

  5. #245
    Quote Originally Posted by Teebone View Post
    The difficulty comes from encounter mechanics, and exactly how things should be.
    Pompous pronouncements of how things "should" be don't matter much at all. The current design is failing, in execution, to retain interest in the raiding content, independent of your normative biases.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowraven View Post
    And this is the issue. It's not that people "can't adapt to the mechanics" but... they don't want to. They don't even try. And yet Blizzard has decided to cater to them even if they show no will to improve and they show they don't even really care about the game and will leave it after they've done the raids in LFR a few times. Horribly business model, but that's only my opinion of course.
    Blizzard seems to want to make complicated, mechanic-filled fights, with the idea that this would engage and interest their customers. And this just isn't true. Blizzard has assumed the lesser players wanted the same thing the organized higher end raiders did, just in a detuned form, and that isn't working at all.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler

  6. #246
    The Unstoppable Force Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Pompous pronouncements of how things "should" be don't matter much at all. The current design is failing, in execution, to retain interest in the raiding content, independent of your normative biases.
    He's not wrong though. Difficulty may be relative to the user but it doesn't mean he is wrong.



    Blizzard seems to want to make complicated, mechanic-filled fights, with the idea that this would engage and interest their customers. And this just isn't true. Blizzard has assumed the lesser players wanted the same thing the organized higher end raiders did, just in a detuned form, and that isn't working at all.

    That doesn't explain people leaving LFR and doing Flex mode.
    Blizzard do not destroy Jaina Proudmoore's character. Make her who she once was, not full of rage and vengeance.,If you are curious about me or about my writing aspirations, feel free to pst me. Paladin-Sorcerer at your service! http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...htsongg/simple

  7. #247
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    He's not wrong though. Difficulty may be relative to the user but it doesn't mean he is wrong.
    His statement was not even wrong, it was meaningless and irrelevant.
    That doesn't explain people leaving LFR and doing Flex mode.
    Flex mode is, in practice, easier than LFR right now.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler

  8. #248
    november the 4th?

    Quote Originally Posted by V
    Not anymore.

  9. #249
    The Unstoppable Force Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    His statement was not even wrong, it was meaningless and irrelevant.
    I'd say it's exactly relevant. Some people in LFR just are that bad and can't even try to be good. Yeah making it super hard or like normal would be bad yes but it doesn't mean LFR is failing necessarily. I haven't even seen such a thought.

    Flex mode is, in practice, easier than LFR right now.
    I want what you're smoking. Heisenburg Meth is it?
    Blizzard do not destroy Jaina Proudmoore's character. Make her who she once was, not full of rage and vengeance.,If you are curious about me or about my writing aspirations, feel free to pst me. Paladin-Sorcerer at your service! http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...htsongg/simple

  10. #250
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    I want what you're smoking. Heisenburg Meth is it?
    Flex actually IS easier than LFR, because you can create a moron-free group, which is plain impossible in LFR.

  11. #251
    Needs far more nerfs than this. I really think with the queue times that exist now, and with the percentage of people getting quick heal queues that are messing up the overall queue, that they should just take all the mechanics out, or just have the looks of the mechanics. There are few mechanics left as it is. LFR is and should not exist in a way that upsets the target players.

  12. #252
    Quote Originally Posted by thatmikeguy View Post
    Needs far more nerfs than this.
    Depends how bad they nerfed it since they gave no percentages.

  13. #253
    Warchief miffy23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KBWarriors View Post
    Even if you no longer play or don't do LFR, it's just funny to see when they make announcements like this:

    Honestly, just mail people the potential bags/loot they would've won instead of making them do the raid at this point. Siege of Orgrimmar was brilliant, the mechanics were brilliant and it was a great raid. Just because a few bad players who haven't adapted to you know basic concepts such as moving out of AoE started complaining, they felt that these constant barrages of nerfs are necessary...

    LFR isn't difficult and tanks aren't leaving because they're treated like crap in LFR, they're treated like crap after every wipe. They're leaving because would you rather deal with a bunch of AFK DPS and people who for the most part speak no English for a 528 ilvl or would you rather form a group with competent people and be rewarded with ilvl 540 in Flex? The majority of casuals have moved to Flex Finder mode, leaving only the AFKers, the incredibly bad (mostly ungemmed/unenchanted/not reforged) and the Portuguese playerbase to run LFR.

    Nerf it all you want, it's not going to teach players the core fundamentals of raiding or having to actually... God forbid, learn strategy to earn potential loot. I thought that an MMO revolved around hard work, grinding and team work.. apparently Blizzard is trying to re-invent what a MMO means. Oh well, I just enjoy seeing news like this as I occasionally check on MMO-C and Blizzard to see what the latest news is... I'm just waiting for more expansion information to determine whether I'll start a new account or not.
    Why do you care if you don't play LFR? I stay away from it and go Flex instead myself too, but there IS a huge audience that needs this. They will never get the same achievements as you, they will never compete with you, they need this so they can get their own experience too.

    I don't see the issue with LFR nerfs, if anything it makes it more enjoyable for those of us that know what to do and don't have to deal with morons ruining our game time due to overtuning.

  14. #254
    Quote Originally Posted by McNeil View Post
    Is it really that bad to whipe atleast once or twice in a wing? Especially the later ones?
    Emo rage aversion to wipes seems to be a universal thing in this game, for both casual and self-appointed 'hardcore' players alike.

    Rather humorous, really.
    Benevolence is a luxury for the strong - Wrathion

  15. #255
    I think the one thing everyone is forgetting the big picture. LFR is the easy difficulty level with Heroic being the most difficult level. If your doing LFR you don't want to be dying repeatably which obviously is happening since Blizzard can see internally. Yes, they could attempt ways of trying to getting the players to become better but how many are you going to piss off in the process when you already losing subs. Their only way out here is to lower the stats and make LFR easier.

  16. #256
    The Patient Ectothrix's Avatar
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    So what? LFR is for people who are looking for a quick loot run. Most people are just not good players there. I gave up on it due to people not being able to deal with anything at all.

    But thats just me. If someone wants to play LFR to get lesser gear and see the content, nerf away!

  17. #257
    The Insane det's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KBWarriors View Post
    Even if you no longer play or don't do LFR, it's just funny to see when they make announcements like this:

    Honestly, just mail people the potential bags/loot they would've won instead of making them do the raid at this point. .
    Great idea, yes please mail the loot to ppl already. In return, will you folks agree to stop these topics?

    Jeez - be glad LFR exists, it means now even ppl who do flex can feel like they are awesome and have somebody to look down at.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    One cause is a cognitive bias called projection bias. Essentially living inside your own head your entire life makes it exceedingly difficult to understand how others do not also live your same life, think your same thoughts, and hold your same beliefs. In many cases it's quite frustrating to try to empathize and understand why you yourself may not be the center of the universe, which generally results in one 'acting out' in various ways.
    So, in short: the internet.

  18. #258
    OP your name is very apt.

    You assume wrong that an MMO is supposed to be hard and a grind.

    If you want that gamestyle which went out 10 years ago, go and play EQ where you can be leet and grind for ever.

    90% of people want to login and progress while having fun. What you think is the game is not fun for the vast majority of gamers.

    So stop crying and move on

  19. #259
    Quote Originally Posted by sethman75 View Post
    OP your name is very apt.

    You assume wrong that an MMO is supposed to be hard and a grind.

    If you want that gamestyle which went out 10 years ago, go and play EQ where you can be leet and grind for ever.

    90% of people want to login and progress while having fun. What you think is the game is not fun for the vast majority of gamers.

    So stop crying and move on
    Doing LFR does NOT require alot of work. Im happy if players in LFR dont stand in fire or other obvious bad stuff and atleast do more than autoattack the boss. IF every player in a LFR grp worked for this, it would be much easier. I dont ask for high DPS req in LFR, but I do ask for minimum effort in not standing in bad stuff and click some attack buttons that the game gives you and your class.

    I mean come on, people queue for LFR and go AFK the whole run. Same people also come out in chat saying "lol u bad", "lol wtf we wiped". There is a difference between doing bad dps with your class and not moving out of obvious shit, being afk on purpose,being rude. I would bet the LFR experience would be much better if people payed a little attention and think "oh shit, this green shit on the ground, maybe I should not stand in it?" Do you need to be a hardcore gamer to understand that? No. Do you need to watch guides to understand fire=bad ? No.

    I would think that while playing wow in LFR, you would like to USE your character. That means, click buttons to perform offensive spells. Wich again means you do damage. Even if its low, I bet this could be overlooked if people actually moved out of shit and sometimes attacked adds.


    Blizzard should also find other end game activities. At the same time they should either remove LFR or make it piss easy. Since what I wrote above is probably to much for many players(!).
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  20. #260
    Pandaren Monk Redpanda's Avatar
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    I only que blackfuse and paragons for a chance at a pet. makes it easier for me so GG
    Chaos! Madness! Like a hug for your brain!¯\(°_o)/¯
    Quote Originally Posted by Alpheus View Post
    People doing below 200k dps? Ain't nobody got time for that.
    Quote Originally Posted by smartazjb0y View Post
    Why? Why should content be gated behind skill?
    14/14h and finally done

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