Page 18 of 22 FirstFirst ...
8
16
17
18
19
20
... LastLast
  1. #341
    Bloodsail Admiral reemi's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Montreal
    Posts
    1,034
    Quote Originally Posted by KBWarriors View Post
    LFR isn't difficult and tanks aren't leaving because they're treated like crap in LFR, they're treated like crap after every wipe.
    One thing I noticed, everyone on WoW fansite are pro and think this game is too easy, but in-game is SO different.

    Why do tank leave because of wipes, if the game is too easy, when it's easy, you just don't wipe. So it's not easy. You will always need to deal with AFK, bad or whatever you want, so if most LFR failed, Blizzard will reduce the difficulty after a while.

    P.S. If you think a player is bad because he don't watch and know the fight, you are wrong. What's the point of doing raids when you know everything before doing it? I remember I had difficulty killing ACT2 boss in Diablo 3, and I killed him by myself without the help of internet. Maybe just because when I started playing videogames I didnt had internet to tell me what to do.

  2. #342
    Deleted
    I haven't stepped a single foot into SoO lfr this tier (Mainly due to raiding heroics) but I could see straight away that the numerous mechanics on the bosses WOULD be an issue in LFR. You look at something like VoA in WoTLK - each boss would have 1 or 2 mechanics that once you learned the first time, you wouldn't forget about.

    There are WAY too many mechanics in SoO, you can't expect people to go in LFR and want to learn every single mechanic. Most people who go into LFR are there to "experience" the content or generally just want some easy loot with minimal effort and this is fine. I'm not saying Blizzard should remove the mechanics but unfortunately unless most of the major mechanics are nerfed to the point they won't cause wipes, then LFR will be a massive problem until the end of expansion.

    I don't run LFR but I'm happy to see the nerfs in here, keep the nerfs in lfr/flex/normals and leave our heroics alone!

  3. #343
    But why? The only time I've ever hit 3 stacks in SoO was on garrosh the first day it was released. I know you don't go LFR for the challenge but this makes it way too easy.

  4. #344
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Ilara View Post
    But why? The only time I've ever hit 3 stacks in SoO was on garrosh the first day it was released. I know you don't go LFR for the challenge but this makes it way too easy.
    "On the first day" usually has heroic players joining in for any loot they miss (tiers/trinkets) where as that starts to die down once progression is over, etc.

    LFR = Tutorial
    Flex = Easy
    Normal = Medium
    Heroic = Hard

    I guess is how it's intended and unfortunately it seems to be Flex before LFR these days. It needs a nerfing.

  5. #345
    There is no target audience - that's the idea, it's for everyone. As a result, it is at a level where the lowest common denominator can gain something from it.
    It's like a professional footballer moaning that some random 5 a side is playing their sport in the local park. The park is there for everyone, not just 'the top'.
    From my viewpoint, If you want to have a nice community, you should help them. Make a learning curve not too much "hard", but trying to give them to improve when they are just playing a game and having some fun.
    To improve, you need to fail sometimes, and that's something that every game has.
    Maybe, the direction of the game doesn't give anything to player to improve, just build some "walls", and only the people that know how to improve, or just have time and skills can pass that. But that's a design problem.

  6. #346
    Quote Originally Posted by Tikaru View Post
    Why do people who don't participate in LFR care what happens to it?
    Because LFR could be fun if it wasn't filled with so many terrible people.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
    "Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"

  7. #347
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Because LFR could be fun if it wasn't filled with so many terrible people.
    It is fun with terrible people.

  8. #348
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerraw View Post
    Cataclysm showed that without the easier access to loot that Wrath's heroic dungeons, and now LFR, delivered, people simply quit the game.
    This could only apply to the last tier, since there was no easy access to loot in Cataclysm before that. And do you REALLY think subs would have done better in the last tier without easy access to loot? Most players would have been "done" even earlier.

    Blizzard has always had problems with the last tier of an expansion. MoP is not looking to be an exception. And 60% of players aren't raiding in SoO at all (not even LFR).
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
    "Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"

  9. #349
    Because LFR could be fun if it wasn't filled with so many terrible people.
    Good point here.
    With some tools to improve and give o this people something to make an step in the right direction [bad people--(learning)--->not that bad ///repeat until being good people.] would be a nice support to the game.

  10. #350
    LFR is now so bad Blizz should just place a tourguide NPC at the entrance have it walk you through the place and at the end give you a goodie bag with some shinnies in it.

  11. #351
    Legendary! Firebert's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Essex-ish
    Posts
    6,075
    Quote Originally Posted by Zantos View Post
    No. People in lfr can easily get away with not trying and slacking a lot easier then they can in any other mode.
    It's the easiest mode. This is circular logic: people can slack because it's easy, it's easy because people are allowed to slack. The problem here is that there are no checks and balances against this, but Blizzard don't want to exclude anyone from raiding regardless of skill, and it's quite difficult to differentiate between those two situations.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zantos View Post
    No, a ton of players do that in LFR.
    No, very few players do that in LFR. Personal experience vs personal experience, I'm awaiting hard evidence.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zantos View Post
    Ok? I never once mentioned a number. Just that you can easily get away with it in lfr.
    "Most people" implies a majority, which is at least 13 people out of 25.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zantos View Post
    Most LFR runs do fail.
    Proof of this? Also, depends on your definition of fail, does getting one stack of Determination mean a failed LFR run?
    Quote Originally Posted by Zantos View Post
    But there are usually one or two people that Do not care and wont try or will just afk.
    So, a tiny proportion, not "most people".

    Quote Originally Posted by Zantos View Post
    Oh I don't know, the fact that the boss has HP!! And a berserk timer! That is where its listed. The fact that the boss Can enrage if he is not killed fast enough. Then what happens, he wipes.
    That's not a knowledge requirement, that's a damage output requirement. I've been playing my Mage in LFR a lot and I'm using Frostfire Bolt and Fire Blast in my rotation simply because I'm bored of stack four charges Barrage. It's implied that I don't know how to play my class. I still break 100k often, where the enrage timers require an average of 60k per DPS.

    There is no requirement to play your class "correctly" in order to enter LFR. If any wipes happen then I used to say low DPS had to go but with Determination everyone can now get through the bosses with enough wipes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zantos View Post
    Im a tank. The leading cause of me not joining LFR is the poor attitude of players, and the amount of players that will not try and just afk.
    I was a tank, I've stopped simply because of all the blame that's permanently shifted onto me for other players' mistakes. Personal experiece vs personal experience again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zantos View Post
    Typing in all caps so they will see =/= shouting at them. It means they are not paying attention or seeing it otherwise.
    Or they'd much rather concentrate on what's going on on the rest of the screen than a tiny chatbox in the corner constantly spammed with informaton from varying sources.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zantos View Post
    Yes, they can and that is why LFR fails more often then not. That is why I won't do LFR. Because they have the same attitude as you and then fail miserably.
    Source on a <50% LFR completion rate? I think only Blizzard has this information, but again, depends on your definition of "fail". Also, I min-max my character where I can, check me out on Ask Mr Robot, I'm fully optimised. Most of my LFR runs are smooth. My attitude is to do my best. What you extrapolate for the rest of my attitude is simply just me stating the conditions on which LFR is run.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zantos View Post
    LFR is here to stay because removing it would mean that they admit it is bad. If raids are not good, players will not stay. This isn't up for discussion. If they do not make end game content, or good end game content, then people WILL and do quit. LFR will not change the fact that it has to be done if they want players to stay.
    Some would say that Pandora's Box is open and can never be shut again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zantos View Post
    I can see you wont listen. You are the type of people that has ruined LFR. "Its easiy, why should I care?" Because if you don't care the good players won't continue to carry you.
    Lol. I'm one of the few people that's keeping LFR alive. It is easy, but I care because I don't have any other form of raiding to do, LFR is my content. I carry the raids, not the other way around.

    Thanks for the response.
    37 + (3*7) + (3*7)
    W/L/T/Death count: Wolf: 0/1/0/1 | Mafia: 1/6/0/7 | TPR: 0/4/1/5
    SK: 0/1/0/1 | VT: 2/5/2/7 | Cult: 1/0/0/1

  12. #352
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post
    The thing is that WoW isn't a game that you just learn. It requires constant study to keep up to date. Stat priorities and rotations don't remain steady for the duration of the expansion; they even change from patch to patch. Each raid boss is unique with its own set of mechanics. For enthusiasts that's no big deal. For a casual player who just wants to log in and kill a few bosses before heading off to bed, it's just not worth it. I don't think that players who refuse to min-max are lazy; they just have better things to study than mechanics for a game. If you honestly think that anyone is being handed gear then you should actually give LFR a try. Yes, you can be carried through fights, but you can be carried through heroic fights as well. That doesn't change the fact that someone had to put in significant effort to get that boss to drop their loot. Saying that Blizzard is "handing bad/lazy players nerfs/gear just because they refuse to learn the game" does a disservice to the majority of people in LFR who actually do their best and power through those fights. Maybe you should pay more attention to your own head's whereabouts and less to Blizzard's.
    I can relate to this. Six years ago I knew the mechanics and the numbers just like I know the palm of my hand, I even discussed about with my former college friends. Nowadays I barely have time to play WoW, working so hard on my masters degree, and when I do, I use the tool (LFR) built for people like me. Why should then I be punished for not knowing today which gems are the best or if I don't have the X reforge? Why should anyone be punished on a game, as in an entertainment tool for what was designed, that they pay each month?

    Yes, there are some "bads" that truly refuse to accept that they are bad, but there is a larger number of "hardcores" that are struggling on Normal and yet they cry about something that doesn't affect them.

  13. #353
    The Insane Glorious Leader's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    In my bunker leading uprisings
    Posts
    19,214
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerraw View Post
    Cataclysm showed that without the easier access to loot that Wrath's heroic dungeons, and now LFR, delivered, people simply quit the game.
    To be honest I can't understand why they ever moved away from the wrath model. It wasn't broke, didn't need fixing. It was bloody fucking brilliant.
    Last edited by Glorious Leader; 2013-11-06 at 11:45 AM.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  14. #354
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by KBWarriors View Post
    or would you rather form a group with competent people and be rewarded with ilvl 540 in Flex? The majority of casuals have moved to Flex Finder mode, leaving only the AFKers, the incredibly bad (mostly ungemmed/unenchanted/not reforged) and the Portuguese playerbase to run LFR.
    I lol'd , I understand where your coming from making things easier will not make people better Raiders ..If blizzard had a backbone and said no ! we don't raiding Becoming easier for casuals a couple of years ago and stuck to it maybe the skill level across the whole board would have been raised just by simply adapting and learning

  15. #355
    Legendary! Firebert's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Essex-ish
    Posts
    6,075
    Quote Originally Posted by Belisaurio View Post
    With some tools to improve and give o this people something to make an step in the right direction [bad people--(learning)--->not that bad ///repeat until being good people.] would be a nice support to the game.
    Some people would rather quit than be forced through a tutorial session before they got to the same content everyone else did because the game did a poor job at teaching you the "right" way to do things. This is the dichotomy: either they let everyone in and they keep the millions of monies a month because everyone's consuming content or they start gating it more and start losing out on some of the millions of monies a month because people can't experience the content and quit, which has a knock-on effect of reducing the size of the following raid if enough quit.
    37 + (3*7) + (3*7)
    W/L/T/Death count: Wolf: 0/1/0/1 | Mafia: 1/6/0/7 | TPR: 0/4/1/5
    SK: 0/1/0/1 | VT: 2/5/2/7 | Cult: 1/0/0/1

  16. #356
    The Insane Glorious Leader's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    In my bunker leading uprisings
    Posts
    19,214
    Quote Originally Posted by Firebert View Post
    Some people would rather quit than be forced through a tutorial session before they got to the same content everyone else did because the game did a poor job at teaching you the "right" way to do things. This is the dichotomy: either they let everyone in and they keep the millions of monies a month because everyone's consuming content or they start gating it more and start losing out on some of the millions of monies a month because people can't experience the content and quit, which has a knock-on effect of reducing the size of the following raid if enough quit.
    You make it sounds as if the developers would ever do the later. I mean if they wanted to keep their jobs.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  17. #357
    Legendary! Firebert's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Essex-ish
    Posts
    6,075
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    You make it sounds as if the developers would ever do the later. I mean if they wanted to keep their jobs.
    I think Blizzard are scared of doing the wrong thing.
    37 + (3*7) + (3*7)
    W/L/T/Death count: Wolf: 0/1/0/1 | Mafia: 1/6/0/7 | TPR: 0/4/1/5
    SK: 0/1/0/1 | VT: 2/5/2/7 | Cult: 1/0/0/1

  18. #358
    The Lightbringer LocNess's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Indiana, United States
    Posts
    3,623
    Eh who cares. Yeah it won't fix people not knowing how to play their class or not bothering to learn the fight, but that can't be helped. I think Proving Grounds could be a good way to block off all of the terrible players in LFR, but Blizzard said they wouldn't do that.

  19. #359
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Flutterguy View Post
    So? Maybe those guilds should advertise more or try their own incentive plans to get new raiders if they're so desperate that they're looking to the LFR crowd for recruits.
    Its harder to offer incentives when LFR gives away for free most of what a low to mid tier raiding guild could offer.
    -regular access to raiding
    -the chance to see and kill bosses
    -shiny epics

    Raiding is what got me hooked on the game and kept me playing for years instead of just weeks or months. And I didn't just wake up one day and decide I was going to a hardcore raider. It was just a gradual progression of wanting to see those cool bosses in the Nihilum kill videos in person.

    And yes, some people probably would need to recruit from the LFR crowd. Everyone has to start somewhere.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by reemi View Post

    Why do tank leave because of wipes, if the game is too easy, when it's easy, you just don't wipe. So it's not easy. You will always need to deal with AFK, bad or whatever you want, so if most LFR failed, Blizzard will reduce the difficulty after a while.
    Being afk wasn't really a regular occurence in raiding prior to LFR, except during trash sometimes. That shit got noticed pretty fast. But then people were more invested in even a pug raid then, because it required more effort to join than pushing a button and waiting for 30 minutes.

  20. #360
    For all we know LFR got nerfed 0.0000001% since Blizzard doesn't put percentages on their shit.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •