Paragons of the Klaxxi Heroic 25

[Deleted]

It ignores a major mechanic in the fight and removes the initial DPS check. It needed to be fixed. IMO they also need to fix the Disengaging on the belt as well. Your other examples are not "ignoring" any major part of those particular fights.

Have to agree with this and if I made the impression that I think this exploit is okay I'm sorry because I dont think it is. The only point I was trying to make is that Mione is hypocritical.

[cFortyfive]

I think it's pretty dumb personally how after that long thread that Blizzard hotfixes this, after numerous weeks of this being in affect and guilds using it to their advantage.

That's definitely true as well.

[Dawnrage]

It ignores a major mechanic in the fight and removes the initial DPS check. It needed to be fixed. IMO they also need to fix the Disengaging on the belt as well. Your other examples are not "ignoring" any major part of those particular fights.

That's not the problem. The problem is that right now we use "scopes" to determine if something is an exploit or not, when an exploit is pretty much something that bypasses a game mechanic by it's very definition. How is it alright for anything that lets you bypass a raid mechanic - no matter how small, ok to do? You get into situations like that where people have to second guess themselves and decide if something is going to be hotfixed later on or not and risk having their guild suffer for it - either by using it or not using it.

We play the game to raid, not to work around what Blizzard changes on a whim. They give us the initial rules, then changes those rules so randomly and infrequently, with no real rhyme or reason.

Whatever. Would be pointless to argue this. Like I said it doesn't affect me, but to put up with Blizzard's way of "raid testing" after the tier has been out for so long is dumb - even when they do that as guilds progress on fights live on week one, it's already stupid.

[EvilFunky]

Just like kiting adds on H:Garrosh in 25.
Just like tanking Dark Shamans apart.
Just like using HoP to make a healer immune on Thok (which is pretty much in the same vein).
Just like hunters disengaging onto siegecrafter belt.

They need to nerf am allowing you to cast on thok too...

Thanks i needed a good laugh today

[Tiberria]

I think it's pretty dumb personally how after that long thread that Blizzard hotfixes this, after numerous weeks of this being in affect and guilds using it to their advantage. It wasn't until it was widespread that they hotfixed it. At this point I won't be surprised if the people in said thread simply bitched at blizzard to fixed it and they did. Makes me wonder if they really didn't know about this, because if they didn't, they probably don't realize the several other "exploits" as well on most of the SoO fights.

Really makes you wonder what Blizzard condones and doesn't. Isn't the first time this happened though, probably won't be the last.

The more appropriate approach IMO would be to strip the kill from Tyranny and other guilds who did this (if not outright ban them too). Hot fixing it while letting the kills stand isn't really fair to the guilds who were using the same strat and close to a kill. At least they will get punished by being forced to relearn the fight to even get back to Garrosh this week, but an outright ban was probably more appropriate.

[Dawnrage]

They need to nerf am allowing you to cast on thok too...

Thanks i needed a good laugh today

I know the morons will line up and say stupid shit like the above, but really, AM at least has a component to it that says it prevent spells from being interrupted. HoP is simply something that prevents physical damage - it works in the exact same vein as how it worked on skeer's bloodletting on thok. If you don't see them as both being exploits, well, I don't know what to tell you then. Keep being delusional.

[Reqlol]

I know the morons will line up and say stupid shit like the above, but really, AM at least has a component to it that says it prevent spells from being interrupted. HoP is simply something that prevents physical damage - it works in the exact same vein as how it worked on skeer's bloodletting on thok. If you don't see them as both being exploits, well, I don't know what to tell you then. Keep being delusional.

Difference being that BoP prevents things like kick and doesn't prevent deathstrike healing while it does prevent the damage from deathstrike...

[Nique]

The more appropriate approach IMO would be to strip the kill from Tyranny and other guilds who did this (if not outright ban them too). Hot fixing it while letting the kills stand isn't really fair to the guilds who were using the same strat and close to a kill. At least they will get punished by being forced to relearn the fight to even get back to Garrosh this week, but an outright ban was probably more appropriate.

I agree, at least you guys will be happy with 13th place instead of 14th place without all these cheaters!

[Dawnrage]

Difference being that BoP prevents things like kick and doesn't prevent deathstrike healing while it does prevent the damage from deathstrike...

The hell does this have to do with anything? So you are equating two player skills to two npc skills?

Thok's screech causes physical damage, and interrupt because of said damage.
Skeer''s bloodletting causes physical damage, and spawns blood adds because of said damage.

HoP prevents both physical damage, which causes neither of the second part to happen. Let's be honest here, we all know that it's simply because Skeer's component is more damaging to the encounter as a whole which is why it got hotfixed (or maybe because of that thread, who knows since they didn't fix it for weeks before that thread). Thok's screech favors paladins strongly for multiple HoP and while it also trivializes the encounter, it's not in the same scope as Klaxxi, which is my problem with Blizzard. That's how they've been doing things - just hotfixing based on what is a bigger detriment as opposed to being consistent.

How are guilds suppose to determine that though? You can say, "common sense" but they have also been far bigger things that haven't been fixed, like last tier's bullshit with paladins HoPing debuffs off on Durumu/Iron Qon for example. That breaks the encounter in the same scope that you can just bring one tank at that point and have an extra DPS (which is a huge boon for 10 man). Where do you draw the line here with what's ok to use and what's not ok?

[Deleted]

How are guilds suppose to determine that though? You can say, "common sense" but they have also been far bigger things that haven't been fixed, like last tier's bullshit with paladins HoPing debuffs off on Durumu/Iron Qon for example. That breaks the encounter in the same scope that you can just bring one tank at that point and have an extra DPS (which is a huge boon for 10 man). Where do you draw the line here with what's ok to use and what's not ok?

You know when you're doing something that you shouldn't be able to do and is no way intended.

[Troyan]

Is this true or is the OP just messing with a bunch that got hotblooded over this issue over the past few days?

[Dawnrage]

You know when you're doing something that you shouldn't be able to do and is no way intended.

Like all the examples I gave then? Or are you telling me that those are things that are OK to do simply because Blizzard hasn't touched them yet? Hey, the first kill with this "exploit" happened the first week SoO heroics were out and didn't get fixed till now. Do you think those guilds that did it thought it wasn't something ok to do?

Obvious stuff like blowing up Lich King's platform or evading adds in Yogg's final phase is of course, obvious. Stuff like Skeer's shit, not so much when it's been happening all tier (I.E. HoPing all kinds of shit off in ToT).

[Deleted]

Is this true or is the OP just messing with a bunch that got hotblooded over this issue over the past few days?

It's true, we got fucked mid attempt. Literally MID ATTEMPT.

[Deleted]

It's true, we got fucked mid attempt. Literally MID ATTEMPT.

Big red button strikes again!

[Dawnrage]

And this is where you're wrong and this has been explained a million times in the other thread.

Can you BoP the reaction 1? Of course you can.
Can you BoP the reaction 2? Err, excuse me, why should being BoP'd prevent some guy from summoning some adds?

Compare that to



Hence, BoP is completely fine here.

The effect2 is not related to effect1 being successful or not - at least, not in these cases. It's related to the ability itself being casted, and it does end up being casted in both cases. Bypassing the secondary effect by immuning the first effect is nothing short of a bug and/or a coding/design mistake.

Really, I read this the first time in that thread and still thought it was stupid, and here you are bringing it up again. Read it yourself and think about how stupid that sounds. Firstly, to even compare NPC abilities to player abilities is retarded. Let me just bring up one small example to counter that - why are there physical damage done by NPCs that is not counteracted by armor? Clearly everything that's physical when you bring players into it works with armor, why not NPC shit? Not talking about bleeds by the way.

Secondly, why are you arguing semantics on how they are worded? Like really, you are gonna sit there and say, "Err, excuse me, why should being BoP'd prevent some guy from summoning some adds?". What the fuck? Is there a rulebook about this somewhere? The most obvious thing here when you read them is that both deal physical damage, and thus because the damage is dealt, that the ability happens. If you want to sit there and twist the wording and roleplay some garbage about how a guy should spawn adds because it makes no sense otherwise, then this isn't going to lead anywhere. Ask anyone who isn't some heavy theorycrafting/reads-too-much-in-between-the-lines guy to read both wording and they will tell you the same answer I did.

Anyway, whatever. You already have your say just because Blizzard hotfixed this in your favor from the previous thread. I don't want to argue about shit with you since you have a bigger fanboy base that will come in here and defend you anyway, you being a girl and all. I will just say that Blizzard sucks shit at doing this for as long as I've played the game, and they still do. Anyone who says otherwise is just a blind fanboy who likes it up the ass from Blizzard.

[Deleted]

You exploited the boss with an unintended side-effect from Hand of Protection. Most of the idiotic counter-arguments in the other topic was, 'If it's an exploit then blizzard will hotfix it'. They have. Deal with it.

[Zurick]

The more appropriate approach IMO would be to strip the kill from Tyranny and other guilds who did this (if not outright ban them too). Hot fixing it while letting the kills stand isn't really fair to the guilds who were using the same strat and close to a kill. At least they will get punished by being forced to relearn the fight to even get back to Garrosh this week, but an outright ban was probably more appropriate.

Because all of us care about being 12th loser...

We're not bothered by it being hotfixed. We'll just kill it another way which like I said in the previous topic I don't mind mixing things up and keeping encounters fresh. We're going to be on this tier for a long time so get the most out of it.

Don't be mad at Tyranny and guilds like ours for being open to new ideas. Put your anger where it belongs... On yourself. What could you have done to help your guild kill the encounter quicker since ranks matter to you?

Do however do me a favor and rage as much as you'd like on this forum, or even send me a Private message or in game tell. I do quite enjoy your furious posts. To quote a famous man...

Give in to your anger. With each passing moment you make yourself more my servant.

[Dawnrage]

You exploited the boss with an unintended side-effect from Hand of Protection. Most of the idiotic counter-arguments in the other topic was, 'If it's an exploit then blizzard will hotfix it'. They have. Deal with it.

If you are replying to me, I guess you didn't read the entire thread. My guild doesn't use this at all. We didn't even know about this when we killed it. When that thread popped up last week, the only thing that crossed my mind was that it was a clever strat. It's an exploit in the same sense that a lot of things are an exploit but alas, it's not up to any of us to decide that but Blizzard.

My problem is with Blizzard, not anyone else. How they have gone about hotfixing certain things over the years have always got on my nerves and this is another one to add to the list. There's nothing I can really do in the end, but that doesn't mean it doesn't make me mad whenever they pull one of these stupid stunts with their inconsistent hotfixes. To me there is no difference between three tanking dark shamans and this (unless you are going to tell me that it's totally intended to trivialize a fight to the extent 3 tanking dark shaman does, and also for 10s and 25s to have bring 3 tanks on one encounter in the entire zone - well, two for 25 mans with H:garrosh).

I think people are being hypocrites in regards to what is an exploit personally, but that's just how things are I guess.

[Zurick]

Blizzard's method of Hotfixing is a lot like the tide...

Tide goes in, tide goes out. Never a miscommunication. You can’t explain that. You can explain why the tide goes in…

[Gliff]

Good luck with your repeat kills now.

They will just extend until they kill Garrosh.