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  1. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaikal21 View Post
    Oh my, THIS a million times this.
    Why all the Alliance heroes have to stay neutral THE ENTIRE TIME? It's okay if they are neutral toward the Horde for an expansion, for the greater good and so on.
    But WHY they have to stay that way until they die? This is what pisses my off.
    Thrall was neutral in Cataclysm. But in MOP, we can clearly see that joined the Horde again.

    At least we got Dalaran back. But still, Rhonin died...
    Think yourselves lucky that your characters live long enough to go neutral.

    Horde NPCs have a nasty habit of getting killed or turning villainous that just pisses us off. Thrall went Neutral in Cata and the backlash was immense as Alliance players finally understood what Horde has suffered since classic.

  2. #202
    I changed my mind. I would not mind if they went neutral. The thing is, they have been on an alien planet for over 25 years(in game) with their own struggles they face on a daily basis, so I highly doubt they care too much about current wow political affiliations, and probably just want what's best for everyone as a whole. They will also more then likely be staying on said alien planet after the expansion, so why even bother staying picking a side?

  3. #203
    The Lightbringer Zuben's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaikal21 View Post
    Answer to me : Why the remaining High Elves at Alleria's Stronghold in Outland are still Alliance members? Why all the living members of Alliance expedition of LORDAERON are STILL Alliance? Have you done the Alliance quests in Outland? Have you meet Danath Trollbane? His home is in ruins (Stormgarde) but he is still a member of the new Alliance.
    To be fair, Auric, Allerian Outpost's commander, is now a diplomat residing in Sunwell's chamber. At the end of the Quel'delar questchain, if the player is a blood elf, Auric joins Lor'themar and Rommath in congratulating the player and referencing both high elves and blood elves as children of Silvermoon. He isn't part of any specific faction that promotes peace, just the Alliance in general, so at least to me this suggests that peace with blood elves is what the regular high elf wants. Only Vereesa's Silver Covenant and some throaway individuals seem to represent a hardline attitude.

    With that in mind, I definitely think Alleria won't be fiercely against the Horde, but more like Anduin: Alliance peace promoter. Only cool at it instead of a boring kid with boring pure heart.

    Turalyon will likely be more Alliance-heavy. In this setting it would fit if Arator was torn between which ideology he should follow.
    Now you see it. Now you don't.

  4. #204
    Titan Kangodo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zuben View Post
    To be fair, Auric, Allerian Outpost's commander, is now a diplomat residing in Sunwell's chamber. At the end of the Quel'delar questchain, if the player is a blood elf, Auric joins Lor'themar and Rommath in congratulating the player and referencing both high elves and blood elves as children of Silvermoon. He isn't part of any specific faction that promotes peace, just the Alliance in general, so at least to me this suggests that peace with blood elves is what the regular high elf wants. Only Vereesa's Silver Covenant and some throaway individuals seem to represent a hardline attitude.
    Hmm, interesting. I forgot about that:

    For blood elf players, Auric joins Lor'themar and Rommath in congratulating the sin'dorei hero who had restored the blade. He states that now is the time to rally behind the bearer of Quel'Delar and avenge the destruction of their lands, referencing the quel'dorei and sin'dorei collectively as the "children of Silvermoon."

  5. #205
    Brewmaster Felarion's Avatar
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    Im not even die hard alliance player (play horde mostly) and i will be mad as hell if A option happend. They are Alliance Heroes, got their statues in stormwind. Just give alliance what is theirs. Horde got their own Heroes that need to be developed and get more important role, like Saurfang or Rexxar.

  6. #206
    Quote Originally Posted by Thassarian View Post
    Would also mention that Tirion was exiled from the Alliance for saving Eitrigg from execution, so he wouldn't even be a part of the Alliance at this point anyway. And don't you mean far more neutral, considering he founded and leads the Cross-faction Druid faction, the Cenarion Circle? Thrall leads the Earthen Ring, but he's already been shown to have returned back to his life with Aggra rather than being a full-time leader.
    Yes, of course. The other way around. Far more neutral ofc. Thanks. :P

  7. #207
    Quote Originally Posted by Ganathar View Post
    Right... this excuse again.
    Except its not an excuse. I can accept the story going places I wouldn't necessarily want it going as long as it equals fun stuff to do in the game. I see some players getting so angry over the faction stuff and for the life of me I don't understand that, I don't relate to the 'omg screw Blizzard, they are totally biased toward horde/alliance' mentality at all. They tell the stories they opt to tell per expansion, I'm pretty sure that they don't sit around in meetings having discussions like 'Hey what we can do to just... effing piss off horde players this patch lolz?' The truth is, they probably never anticipated the degree of fanaticism some people have toward their factions.

    Personally though? I don't play WoW expecting an interactive R.A Salvatore novel, and I don't certainly don't play WoW to keep track of which faction gets more facetime. I play to kill time and have fun with my friends. My point was that in a video game, gameplay should come first. If this was a movie, sure, I'd be up in arms if they didn't put the script/character development/dialogue etc about all else.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganathar View Post
    We can easily have some horde characters like Varok Saurfang, Aethas Sunreaver, BAINE BLOODHOOF and even Garrosh if he can be redeemed. I know that some people don't like Garrosh but I think that he can be developed to real redeemed badass like his father. His father was an idiot but eventually he redeemed himself when he killed Mannoroth.Plus, I do not remember any boss being redeemed so that would be a first!
    Would probably be easy to redeem Garrosh to some horde players. To alliance who have fond memories of Southshore and Theramore, not so much.

  8. #208
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Hmm, interesting. I forgot about that:

    For blood elf players, Auric joins Lor'themar and Rommath in congratulating the sin'dorei hero who had restored the blade. He states that now is the time to rally behind the bearer of Quel'Delar and avenge the destruction of their lands, referencing the quel'dorei and sin'dorei collectively as the "children of Silvermoon."
    I used to like Auric. Now all I want is for someone to shove a fistfull of fel down his throat so that he can't ever again be called a high elf.

  9. #209
    Brewmaster Warlord Booty's Avatar
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    Most of the Horde "heroes" have been punked off the past few expansions, so I expect nothing less than the Alliance heroes to return and further make the Horde look like fools. That said, I'd be a bit sad if these heroes came back and failed straight away. Our side or their side, the world needs heroes.

  10. #210
    Quote Originally Posted by Zuben View Post
    To be fair, Auric, Allerian Outpost's commander, is now a diplomat residing in Sunwell's chamber. At the end of the Quel'delar questchain, if the player is a blood elf, Auric joins Lor'themar and Rommath in congratulating the player and referencing both high elves and blood elves as children of Silvermoon. He isn't part of any specific faction that promotes peace, just the Alliance in general, so at least to me this suggests that peace with blood elves is what the regular high elf wants. Only Vereesa's Silver Covenant and some throaway individuals seem to represent a hardline attitude.

    With that in mind, I definitely think Alleria won't be fiercely against the Horde, but more like Anduin: Alliance peace promoter. Only cool at it instead of a boring kid with boring pure heart.

    Turalyon will likely be more Alliance-heavy. In this setting it would fit if Arator was torn between which ideology he should follow.
    Yeah, but as you said, he joined Lor'themar and Rommath in congratulating the player. Lore'themar congratulated me when i made Quel'Demar and i'm Alliance that doesn't mean he joined the High Elves.
    Auric is there to represent the High Elves, aka Alliance players. Rommath didn't even wanted him in there at first.
    In Cataclysm Veressa wanted to help Vol'Jin to clear Zul'Aman, for the good of Qul'Thalas.
    Why? Because the High Elves still view Silvermoon as their home city, even if they are exiled from there.


    PROOF :


    Outside Zul'Aman
    Silvermoon Messenger says: I bring word from the Regent Lord of Silvermoon.
    Silvermoon Messenger says: Lord Lor'themar demands an explanation for the presence of this... exile in our lands.

    Vereesa Windrunner says: Quel'Thalas is as much my home as it is yours and I would not see it fall to our ancient enemy. Now, you tell your cowardly regent --

    Halduron Brightwing says: Vereesa, please!

    Halduron Brightwing says: She is here at my invitation, courier. Most of my Farstriders are away and cannot be recalled easily. Vereesa's rangers know the land and are experienced combatants.

    Silvermoon Messenger says: Lord Lor'themar does not concur with your reasoning, ranger-general. You have no authority to invite this --

    Halduron Brightwing says: I am the commander of Silvermoon's defenses and I will seek assistance as I deem necessary!

    Halduron Brightwing says: Now, Chieftain Vol'jin, before we were so rudely interrupted, you were telling us of the Zandalari's plans.

    Vol'jin says: Dat I was. Da Zandalari called a meeting 'o all da troll tribes includin' da Darkspears.

    Vol'jin says: King Rastakhan, he be plannin' to unite da troll tribes under his Zandalari.

    Vereesa Windrunner says: Including the Amani?

    Vol'jin says: Da Amani, da Gurubashi, all 'o dem. He be dispatchin' emissaries to every tribe.

    Halduron Bringwing says: My scouts have reported nothing but quiet outside Zul'Aman.

    Vol'jin says: Dey be holed up inside da ruined city, regroupin'.

    Vol'jin says: Rastakhan be callin' me his brother, but da Horde be our true brothers. We gotta stop him before he can sweet-talk the others into joinin' his empire.

    Vereesa Windrunner says: So how are we going to deal with this alliance between the Amani and the Zandalari?

    Halduron Brightwing says: We must prevent it from occurring in the first place.

    Vol'jin says: Dat be da plan. My men be infiltratin' the city and learnin' what dey can about da new Zandalari warlord.

    Vereesa Windrunner says: Halduron, we should combine our forces and make preperations to act on reports from the Darkspear scouts.

    Halduron Brightwing says: Agreed. Messenger, you may carry word of our plans back to Lord Lor'themar, but make it clear that I will not tolerate any further interference.

  11. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    I hate it when people cannot tell the difference between the Alliance of Lordaeron and the Grand Alliance.
    It's the same when people can't keep the demonic invasion legion apart from the Tauren.
    There is no difference. Some new members join, some old members left, new leader, but they didn't changed concept. Thats why they want reclaim Lordaeron, thats why they say "For Lordaeron" in Wrathgate, thats why all members of Lordaeron's Alliance are in Alliance now. Alliance of Stormwind is successor of Lordaron's. And no one says "we are new, different Alliance now" like Horde do since Frozen Throne.
    Last edited by Lins; 2013-11-07 at 04:42 AM.

  12. #212
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    High Elves ARE Blood Elves. For someone who left before the splintering of the race there is no difference!
    Are you saying she is really turning her back on 90% of her people? Really? That is ridiculous!
    For someone who spent a lot of time killing demons on Draenor, I'm pretty sure she'll find it despicable that a majority of her people absorbed demon magic. Her people are the High elves. If you can't see the difference based on political and philosophical differences, then Alleria might as well just be a character with no personality at all and side with the faction that her two most hated races are on.

    Alleria doesn't hate the Horde, she hated the old Orcs.
    Alleria doesn't hate demons and 'killing demons and draining her power' wouldn't be a problem.
    But that would be if you ignore the part about the Blood Elves not doing that any more.
    Alleria hates Orcs in general. Old Orcs, new Orcs, Alleria hates them. The Horde was around when she was, last time I checked, so she still hates the same Orcs. And she hates Trolls.

    The High elves' ways before the Scourge Invasion was focused on being safe with magic (evidenced by the Runestones) instead of trying to gain power through it. Alleria hates demons, as she most likely had to fight some on Draenor, and the whole fel-absorption is something she most likely would never do.

    And whether or not the Blood elves do it anymore or not doesn't mean they haven't done it. So if a pedophile doesn't stalk children anymore, should you invite him over to your kid's birthday party?

    Furthermore, Alleria is an Alliance hero. I couldn't see her as anything but, and asking for her to return would be just a big waste if she were to go Horde or neutral. The only thing I could see is her being neutral to the Blood elves and Sylvanas, while an enemy to everything else on Horde-side.
    High elves can be playable. You have nothing against them except for population arguments (which we have no numbers on), a blue post (which is already retconned based on the fact that Blood elves are playable), and an Encyclopedia (which hasn't been updated since pre-TBC; and the Silver Covenant makes two out of three claims on their status within the Encyclopedia void). So yes, High elves are just as likely as any other race in-terms of playability.

  13. #213
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaikal21 View Post
    Oh my, THIS a million times this.
    Why all the Alliance heroes have to stay neutral THE ENTIRE TIME? It's okay if they are neutral toward the Horde for an expansion, for the greater good and so on.
    But WHY they have to stay that way until they die? This is what pisses my off.
    Thrall was neutral in Cataclysm. But in MOP, we can clearly see that joined the Horde again.

    At least we got Dalaran back. But still, Rhonin died...
    I don't get what all this QQ is about. In TBC we both went to Outland and killed like every member of the old Horde that hadn't already joined the new Horde. The only major Horde lore character that "returned" to WoW was... Zul'jin. Who was just turned into a bad guy we all had to kill. Garona showed up for one questline then disappeared (and seems to have no Horde affiliation at all). Rexxar said "hi, not interested" and we never saw him again. Grom turned out to have a son and shit look at how that turned out. And you complain that your lore characters have to be neutral?

    I actually prefer neutral characters because frankly when lore characters buy into the petty Alliance vs. Horde conflict it kind of portrays them as short-sighted idiots.
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  14. #214
    1) Expecting it, but it'd be annoying.
    2) Yes.
    3) Very yes.
    4) If it's Legion-based, yes. If it's South Seas based, no.

  15. #215
    Banned Wildberry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    I don't get what all this QQ is about. In TBC we both went to Outland and killed like every member of the old Horde that hadn't already joined the new Horde. The only major Horde lore character that "returned" to WoW was... Zul'jin. Who was just turned into a bad guy we all had to kill. Garona showed up for one questline then disappeared (and seems to have no Horde affiliation at all). Rexxar said "hi, not interested" and we never saw him again. Grom turned out to have a son and shit look at how that turned out. And you complain that your lore characters have to be neutral?

    I actually prefer neutral characters because frankly when lore characters buy into the petty Alliance vs. Horde conflict it kind of portrays them as short-sighted idiots.
    Don't forget about:
    -Kargath Bladefist
    -Teron Gorefiend
    -Zuluhed the Whacked
    -Tagar Spinebreaker
    -Prince Kael'thas Sunstrider


    Back in Classic we had:
    -Rend Blackhand

    In Wrath we lost:
    -Varimathras
    -Grand Apothecary Putress

    In Cataclysm we lost:
    -Cho'gall
    -Magatha Grimtotem

    and in Mists we lose:
    -Zaela
    -General Nazgrim
    -Garrosh Hellscream
    -Malkorok
    -Overlord Runthak

    Yeah, please, keep complaining about your neutral characters guys!

  16. #216
    Thats because pre-war 3 horde were bad guys, you can't do much with that.

  17. #217
    Banned Lei Shi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildberry View Post
    Don't forget about:
    -Kargath Bladefist
    -Teron Gorefiend
    -Zuluhed the Whacked
    -Tagar Spinebreaker
    -Prince Kael'thas Sunstrider <Was never part of the Horde>


    Back in Classic we had:
    -Rend Blackhand

    In Wrath we lost:
    -Varimathras <Was never in Horde, always been Burning Legion>
    -Grand Apothecary Putress <Some random guy who didn't even exist before Wrathgate>

    In Cataclysm we lost:
    -Cho'gall <Was never in Horde, existed long before the Horde was even founded>
    -Magatha Grimtotem <Her tribe was never in Horde>

    and in Mists we lose:
    -Zaela <Never did anything useful for the Horde anyway before Galakras>
    -General Nazgrim
    -Garrosh Hellscream
    -Malkorok <Didn't exist before 5.2 either>
    -Overlord Runthak

    Yeah, please, keep complaining about your neutral characters guys!
    Fixed that.

  18. #218
    The Lightbringer Moon Blade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaikal21 View Post
    If one of these happen :
    1) Turalyon and Alleria follow the path of Tirion/Rhonin, and become neutral to the Horde, for the greater good.
    dumb but most likely. All these so-called leaders seem to love the Horde, even when the Horde is busy backstabbing and murdering their own respective people. This is bread n butter for blizz bullshit.
    2) Turalyon is still Alliance but Alleria finds out about what happened to her kingdom and the Blood Elves, and decides to join Lor'themar.
    wouldn't make much sense really.
    3) We find out that one of them is dead, or dies in the process of the expansion.
    /waves
    4) They don't show up at all, for another expansion.
    nothing wrong with this either

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Wildberry View Post
    Don't forget about:
    -Kargath Bladefist
    -Teron Gorefiend
    -Zuluhed the Whacked
    -Tagar Spinebreaker
    -Prince Kael'thas Sunstrider


    Back in Classic we had:
    -Rend Blackhand

    In Wrath we lost:
    -Varimathras
    -Grand Apothecary Putress

    In Cataclysm we lost:
    -Cho'gall
    -Magatha Grimtotem

    and in Mists we lose:
    -Zaela
    -General Nazgrim
    -Garrosh Hellscream
    -Malkorok
    -Overlord Runthak

    Yeah, please, keep complaining about your neutral characters guys!
    way to bolster your "losses" with characters that have nothing to do with Thrall's Horde or the WoW timeline. Cho'gall, Teron Gorefiend, Rend Blackhand. LMAO And really? Putress? Malkorok? Characters designed to be villains from the start? You're taking fanboy to a new level. It's admirable but you aren't making a shit bit of sense with it, so dial it down a few notches.
    If it's not an elf, leave it on the shelf.

  19. #219
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildberry View Post
    Don't forget about:
    -Kargath Bladefist
    -Teron Gorefiend
    -Zuluhed the Whacked
    -Tagar Spinebreaker
    -Prince Kael'thas Sunstrider


    Back in Classic we had:
    -Rend Blackhand

    In Wrath we lost:
    -Varimathras
    -Grand Apothecary Putress

    In Cataclysm we lost:
    -Cho'gall
    -Magatha Grimtotem

    and in Mists we lose:
    -Zaela
    -General Nazgrim
    -Garrosh Hellscream
    -Malkorok
    -Overlord Runthak

    Yeah, please, keep complaining about your neutral characters guys!
    I thought I was the only person still sort of upset about Varimathras.

    RIP you big creepy bastard

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Moon Blade View Post
    way to bolster your "losses" with characters that have nothing to do with Thrall's Horde or the WoW timeline. Cho'gall, Teron Gorefiend, Rend Blackhand. LMAO And really? Putress? Malkorok? Characters designed to be villains from the start? You're taking fanboy to a new level. It's admirable but you aren't making a shit bit of sense with it, so dial it down a few notches.
    Point of order: Alleria and Turalyon have no connection to the Alliance of Stormwind either. If you get to count Alliance of Lordaeron as Alliance of Stormwind, we get to count Old Horde as New Horde
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  20. #220
    Banned Wildberry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lei Shi View Post
    Fixed that.
    -Prince Kael'thas Sunstrider (Until Kael's betrayal, he ruled the Blood Elves alongside Lor'themar, he sent M'uru to Silvermoon while negotiations with the Horde were going on)

    -Varimathras (Was part of the Horde, until he got the Villain bat in WotLK)
    -Grand Apothecary Putress (1 of 2 Forsaken to hold the highest rank in the RAS, was added in the Scourge Invasion event.)

    -Cho'gall (Member of the Old Horde, if the Old Horde doesn't count, then Turalyon and Alleria aren't your heroes, they're Old Alliance Heroes.)
    -Magatha (Friendly to Horde players, resided in Thunder Bluff)

    -Zaela (Responsible for bringing the Dragonmaw into the Horde, spearheaded the Horde offensive in Twilight Highlands alongside Garrosh Hellscream)
    -Malkorok (Has existed since Tides of War, if you want to get technical he was IN-GAME in 5.1, and going off from lore, would have served with the Horde in the First and Second wars, assuming he was alive for both of them.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lei Shi View Post
    Fixed that.
    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Moon Blade View Post
    way to bolster your "losses" with characters that have nothing to do with Thrall's Horde or the WoW timeline. Cho'gall, Teron Gorefiend, Rend Blackhand. LMAO And really? Putress? Malkorok? Characters designed to be villains from the start? You're taking fanboy to a new level. It's admirable but you aren't making a shit bit of sense with it, so dial it down a few notches.
    Aren't you one of the biggest supporters of the argument "There is only 1 Horde, it's a continuation"? Either way:

    -Rend Blackhand (Served Doomhammer during the Second War)
    -Tagar Spinebreaker (Served Ner'zhul, who at the time had the Horde's best interests at heart)
    -Zuluhed The Whacked ("Zuluhed was apparently the last and only shaman to accompany the Horde...Zuluhed was one of the few who refused, out of distrust for Gul'dan and distate for demonic magic".)
    -Kargath Bladefist ("In his prime, Kargath Bladefist was a fine warrior, a hero and example to his people. His death is a blow to us all, but especially to Warchief Thrall. Whatever happened to him in his final days, we should not forget the orc Kargath once was, nor the lessons to be learned from his downfall." [Intended to appear in "Lord of the Clans"])
    -General Nazgrim (Loyal Footsoldier of the Horde, the "Everyman-Orc")
    -Garrosh Hellscream (Son of one of the Most prominent Orcs in History, got beaten to a pulp by the Villain bat)
    -Teron Gorefiend (Served Ner'zhul when he had the Horde's best interests in mind, his motives were questionable, his loyalty, however, was not.)
    -Zaela (Leader of the Dragonmaw Clan after the Fel Orcs from Outland had been taken care of)
    -Zul'jin (Chieftan of the Amani Tribe, not a villain, only wanted his lands back from the Elves.)

    -Magatha Grimtotem (Added political intrigue to the Tauren [Let's face it, Every notable Tauren has the same personality now] was considered a notable Horde friendly Tauren)


    There's that sense you wanted.

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