To Alliance players : Will you get upset if...

[Deleted]

To be fair, Auric, Allerian Outpost's commander, is now a diplomat residing in Sunwell's chamber. At the end of the Quel'delar questchain, if the player is a blood elf, Auric joins Lor'themar and Rommath in congratulating the player and referencing both high elves and blood elves as children of Silvermoon. He isn't part of any specific faction that promotes peace, just the Alliance in general, so at least to me this suggests that peace with blood elves is what the regular high elf wants. Only Vereesa's Silver Covenant and some throaway individuals seem to represent a hardline attitude.

With that in mind, I definitely think Alleria won't be fiercely against the Horde, but more like Anduin: Alliance peace promoter. Only cool at it instead of a boring kid with boring pure heart.

Turalyon will likely be more Alliance-heavy. In this setting it would fit if Arator was torn between which ideology he should follow.

Yeah, but as you said, he joined Lor'themar and Rommath in congratulating the player. Lore'themar congratulated me when i made Quel'Demar and i'm Alliance that doesn't mean he joined the High Elves.
Auric is there to represent the High Elves, aka Alliance players. Rommath didn't even wanted him in there at first.
In Cataclysm Veressa wanted to help Vol'Jin to clear Zul'Aman, for the good of Qul'Thalas.
Why? Because the High Elves still view Silvermoon as their home city, even if they are exiled from there.


PROOF :


Outside Zul'Aman
Silvermoon Messenger says: I bring word from the Regent Lord of Silvermoon.
Silvermoon Messenger says: Lord Lor'themar demands an explanation for the presence of this... exile in our lands.

Vereesa Windrunner says: Quel'Thalas is as much my home as it is yours and I would not see it fall to our ancient enemy. Now, you tell your cowardly regent --

Halduron Brightwing says: Vereesa, please!

Halduron Brightwing says: She is here at my invitation, courier. Most of my Farstriders are away and cannot be recalled easily. Vereesa's rangers know the land and are experienced combatants.

Silvermoon Messenger says: Lord Lor'themar does not concur with your reasoning, ranger-general. You have no authority to invite this --

Halduron Brightwing says: I am the commander of Silvermoon's defenses and I will seek assistance as I deem necessary!

Halduron Brightwing says: Now, Chieftain Vol'jin, before we were so rudely interrupted, you were telling us of the Zandalari's plans.

Vol'jin says: Dat I was. Da Zandalari called a meeting 'o all da troll tribes includin' da Darkspears.

Vol'jin says: King Rastakhan, he be plannin' to unite da troll tribes under his Zandalari.

Vereesa Windrunner says: Including the Amani?

Vol'jin says: Da Amani, da Gurubashi, all 'o dem. He be dispatchin' emissaries to every tribe.

Halduron Bringwing says: My scouts have reported nothing but quiet outside Zul'Aman.

Vol'jin says: Dey be holed up inside da ruined city, regroupin'.

Vol'jin says: Rastakhan be callin' me his brother, but da Horde be our true brothers. We gotta stop him before he can sweet-talk the others into joinin' his empire.

Vereesa Windrunner says: So how are we going to deal with this alliance between the Amani and the Zandalari?

Halduron Brightwing says: We must prevent it from occurring in the first place.

Vol'jin says: Dat be da plan. My men be infiltratin' the city and learnin' what dey can about da new Zandalari warlord.

Vereesa Windrunner says: Halduron, we should combine our forces and make preperations to act on reports from the Darkspear scouts.

Halduron Brightwing says: Agreed. Messenger, you may carry word of our plans back to Lord Lor'themar, but make it clear that I will not tolerate any further interference.

[Lins]

I hate it when people cannot tell the difference between the Alliance of Lordaeron and the Grand Alliance.
It's the same when people can't keep the demonic invasion legion apart from the Tauren.

There is no difference. Some new members join, some old members left, new leader, but they didn't changed concept. Thats why they want reclaim Lordaeron, thats why they say "For Lordaeron" in Wrathgate, thats why all members of Lordaeron's Alliance are in Alliance now. Alliance of Stormwind is successor of Lordaron's. And no one says "we are new, different Alliance now" like Horde do since Frozen Throne.

[cmats4020]

High Elves ARE Blood Elves. For someone who left before the splintering of the race there is no difference!
Are you saying she is really turning her back on 90% of her people? Really? That is ridiculous!

For someone who spent a lot of time killing demons on Draenor, I'm pretty sure she'll find it despicable that a majority of her people absorbed demon magic. Her people are the High elves. If you can't see the difference based on political and philosophical differences, then Alleria might as well just be a character with no personality at all and side with the faction that her two most hated races are on.

Alleria doesn't hate the Horde, she hated the old Orcs.
Alleria doesn't hate demons and 'killing demons and draining her power' wouldn't be a problem.
But that would be if you ignore the part about the Blood Elves not doing that any more.

Alleria hates Orcs in general. Old Orcs, new Orcs, Alleria hates them. The Horde was around when she was, last time I checked, so she still hates the same Orcs. And she hates Trolls.

The High elves' ways before the Scourge Invasion was focused on being safe with magic (evidenced by the Runestones) instead of trying to gain power through it. Alleria hates demons, as she most likely had to fight some on Draenor, and the whole fel-absorption is something she most likely would never do.

And whether or not the Blood elves do it anymore or not doesn't mean they haven't done it. So if a pedophile doesn't stalk children anymore, should you invite him over to your kid's birthday party?

Furthermore, Alleria is an Alliance hero. I couldn't see her as anything but, and asking for her to return would be just a big waste if she were to go Horde or neutral. The only thing I could see is her being neutral to the Blood elves and Sylvanas, while an enemy to everything else on Horde-side.

[Mormolyce]

Oh my, THIS a million times this.
Why all the Alliance heroes have to stay neutral THE ENTIRE TIME? It's okay if they are neutral toward the Horde for an expansion, for the greater good and so on.
But WHY they have to stay that way until they die? This is what pisses my off.
Thrall was neutral in Cataclysm. But in MOP, we can clearly see that joined the Horde again.

At least we got Dalaran back. But still, Rhonin died...

I don't get what all this QQ is about. In TBC we both went to Outland and killed like every member of the old Horde that hadn't already joined the new Horde. The only major Horde lore character that "returned" to WoW was... Zul'jin. Who was just turned into a bad guy we all had to kill. Garona showed up for one questline then disappeared (and seems to have no Horde affiliation at all). Rexxar said "hi, not interested" and we never saw him again. Grom turned out to have a son and shit look at how that turned out. And you complain that your lore characters have to be neutral?

I actually prefer neutral characters because frankly when lore characters buy into the petty Alliance vs. Horde conflict it kind of portrays them as short-sighted idiots.

[Skeppio]

1) Expecting it, but it'd be annoying.
2) Yes.
3) Very yes.
4) If it's Legion-based, yes. If it's South Seas based, no.

[Wildberry]

I don't get what all this QQ is about. In TBC we both went to Outland and killed like every member of the old Horde that hadn't already joined the new Horde. The only major Horde lore character that "returned" to WoW was... Zul'jin. Who was just turned into a bad guy we all had to kill. Garona showed up for one questline then disappeared (and seems to have no Horde affiliation at all). Rexxar said "hi, not interested" and we never saw him again. Grom turned out to have a son and shit look at how that turned out. And you complain that your lore characters have to be neutral?

I actually prefer neutral characters because frankly when lore characters buy into the petty Alliance vs. Horde conflict it kind of portrays them as short-sighted idiots.

Don't forget about:
-Kargath Bladefist
-Teron Gorefiend
-Zuluhed the Whacked
-Tagar Spinebreaker
-Prince Kael'thas Sunstrider


Back in Classic we had:
-Rend Blackhand

In Wrath we lost:
-Varimathras
-Grand Apothecary Putress

In Cataclysm we lost:
-Cho'gall
-Magatha Grimtotem

and in Mists we lose:
-Zaela
-General Nazgrim
-Garrosh Hellscream
-Malkorok
-Overlord Runthak

Yeah, please, keep complaining about your neutral characters guys!

[Lins]

Thats because pre-war 3 horde were bad guys, you can't do much with that.

[Deleted]

Don't forget about:
-Kargath Bladefist
-Teron Gorefiend
-Zuluhed the Whacked
-Tagar Spinebreaker
-Prince Kael'thas Sunstrider <Was never part of the Horde>


Back in Classic we had:
-Rend Blackhand

In Wrath we lost:
-Varimathras <Was never in Horde, always been Burning Legion>
-Grand Apothecary Putress <Some random guy who didn't even exist before Wrathgate>

In Cataclysm we lost:
-Cho'gall <Was never in Horde, existed long before the Horde was even founded>
-Magatha Grimtotem <Her tribe was never in Horde>

and in Mists we lose:
-Zaela <Never did anything useful for the Horde anyway before Galakras>
-General Nazgrim
-Garrosh Hellscream
-Malkorok <Didn't exist before 5.2 either>
-Overlord Runthak

Yeah, please, keep complaining about your neutral characters guys!

Fixed that.

[Mormolyce]

Don't forget about:
-Kargath Bladefist
-Teron Gorefiend
-Zuluhed the Whacked
-Tagar Spinebreaker
-Prince Kael'thas Sunstrider


Back in Classic we had:
-Rend Blackhand

In Wrath we lost:
-Varimathras
-Grand Apothecary Putress

In Cataclysm we lost:
-Cho'gall
-Magatha Grimtotem

and in Mists we lose:
-Zaela
-General Nazgrim
-Garrosh Hellscream
-Malkorok
-Overlord Runthak

Yeah, please, keep complaining about your neutral characters guys!

I thought I was the only person still sort of upset about Varimathras.

RIP you big creepy bastard

- - - Updated - - -

way to bolster your "losses" with characters that have nothing to do with Thrall's Horde or the WoW timeline. Cho'gall, Teron Gorefiend, Rend Blackhand. LMAO And really? Putress? Malkorok? Characters designed to be villains from the start? You're taking fanboy to a new level. It's admirable but you aren't making a shit bit of sense with it, so dial it down a few notches.

Point of order: Alleria and Turalyon have no connection to the Alliance of Stormwind either. If you get to count Alliance of Lordaeron as Alliance of Stormwind, we get to count Old Horde as New Horde

[Wildberry]

Fixed that.

-Prince Kael'thas Sunstrider (Until Kael's betrayal, he ruled the Blood Elves alongside Lor'themar, he sent M'uru to Silvermoon while negotiations with the Horde were going on)

-Varimathras (Was part of the Horde, until he got the Villain bat in WotLK)
-Grand Apothecary Putress (1 of 2 Forsaken to hold the highest rank in the RAS, was added in the Scourge Invasion event.)

-Cho'gall (Member of the Old Horde, if the Old Horde doesn't count, then Turalyon and Alleria aren't your heroes, they're Old Alliance Heroes.)
-Magatha (Friendly to Horde players, resided in Thunder Bluff)

-Zaela (Responsible for bringing the Dragonmaw into the Horde, spearheaded the Horde offensive in Twilight Highlands alongside Garrosh Hellscream)
-Malkorok (Has existed since Tides of War, if you want to get technical he was IN-GAME in 5.1, and going off from lore, would have served with the Horde in the First and Second wars, assuming he was alive for both of them.)

Fixed that.

- - - Updated - - -

way to bolster your "losses" with characters that have nothing to do with Thrall's Horde or the WoW timeline. Cho'gall, Teron Gorefiend, Rend Blackhand. LMAO And really? Putress? Malkorok? Characters designed to be villains from the start? You're taking fanboy to a new level. It's admirable but you aren't making a shit bit of sense with it, so dial it down a few notches.

Aren't you one of the biggest supporters of the argument "There is only 1 Horde, it's a continuation"? Either way:

-Rend Blackhand (Served Doomhammer during the Second War)
-Tagar Spinebreaker (Served Ner'zhul, who at the time had the Horde's best interests at heart)
-Zuluhed The Whacked ("Zuluhed was apparently the last and only shaman to accompany the Horde...Zuluhed was one of the few who refused, out of distrust for Gul'dan and distate for demonic magic".)
-Kargath Bladefist ("In his prime, Kargath Bladefist was a fine warrior, a hero and example to his people. His death is a blow to us all, but especially to Warchief Thrall. Whatever happened to him in his final days, we should not forget the orc Kargath once was, nor the lessons to be learned from his downfall." [Intended to appear in "Lord of the Clans"])
-General Nazgrim (Loyal Footsoldier of the Horde, the "Everyman-Orc")
-Garrosh Hellscream (Son of one of the Most prominent Orcs in History, got beaten to a pulp by the Villain bat)
-Teron Gorefiend (Served Ner'zhul when he had the Horde's best interests in mind, his motives were questionable, his loyalty, however, was not.)
-Zaela (Leader of the Dragonmaw Clan after the Fel Orcs from Outland had been taken care of)
-Zul'jin (Chieftan of the Amani Tribe, not a villain, only wanted his lands back from the Elves.)

-Magatha Grimtotem (Added political intrigue to the Tauren [Let's face it, Every notable Tauren has the same personality now] was considered a notable Horde friendly Tauren)


There's that sense you wanted.

[Grand Phoenix]

1. It doesn't matter to me. I'm cool with neutrality.

2. I'm a bit skeptical, so I'll just wait and see what happens. In my opinion I can see Alleria staying neutral, while Vereesa stays in the Alliance and Sylvanas in the Horde. Even things out.

3. I would rather have either one/both die during the expansion than off-screen. It kind of defeats the purpose of building up their appearance if they die and we don't see them.

4. I will save up my Ironpaw tokens, buy a Flippable Table, and abuse the hell out of it for what it's worth.

[Lothaeryn]

Point of order: Alleria and Turalyon have no connection to the Alliance of Stormwind either. If you get to count Alliance of Lordaeron as Alliance of Stormwind, we get to count Old Horde as New Horde

Except Stormwind was and has always been a part of the Alliance since its inception.

Stormwind was destroyed during the First war and was being rebuilt the entire time between the second and third wars. While it had no direct influence in Alliance politics at the time, it always was held as a part of Alliance Territory.

The Old Horde has no Affiliation with the new one, Thrall deliberately made that note of distinction when creating his Horde, he wanted to not be associated with the likes of Blackhand and Gorefiend, and wanted a better start overall for his people.

The Old Horde was disbanded after its defeat on Azeroth, Thrall simply took the name and reshaped it to fit his image of a united people. Anyone in outland who still claims to be a part of the Horde represents the Old Horde and no one else, they lost their ties to what the Horde represented when the Dark Portal closed.

I know alot of Horde players complain that Alliance has alot of heroes left, but tell me, which ones aside from faction leaders get any character development? Which ones helped us during this new war? Which ones were on the battlefield on the front lines with us? Mekkatorque? Genn? or maybe Danath?

Blizzard made the decision to make the Old Horde irredeemable, don't use the Alliance as a scapegoat as to why their heroes should be cut down to be on par with yours, whom for the most part get better character development on an expansion basis than most leaders of the Alliance have for the entire history of the game.

I want to see new heroes for the Horde, ones who are self made and Identifiable, but don't make this about the Alliance having too many heroes, you guys already say 'deal with it' to Alliance players on every other fucking occasion when it comes to this game, you should be able to 'suck it up' when it comes to lore characterization.

[Evilfish]

So, the old Horde and the new Horde are two different things. Fine.

The old Alliance is still pretty much the same Alliance but without Lordaeron.

So why the fuck would Alleria join the Alliance when they were the ones that drove her people into the Horde in the first place? Cause if you claim the Alliance is one and the same with the one she was in, in order to "claim" her as an Alliance hero, then be aware that you also agree to the fact that it was the same Alliance that tried to eliminate the Belfs WHILE they were still members of that Alliance and WHILE they were assisting that Alliance. Add that on top of the recent Belf massacre in Dalaran and hello Horde Alleria.

[Wildberry]

The Old Horde has no Affiliation with the new one, Thrall deliberately made that note of distinction when creating his Horde, he wanted to not be associated with the likes of Blackhand and Gorefiend, and wanted a better start overall for his people.

The Old Horde was disbanded after its defeat on Azeroth, Thrall simply took the name and reshaped it to fit his image of a united people. Anyone in outland who still claims to be a part of the Horde represents the Old Horde and no one else, they lost their ties to what the Horde represented when the Dark Portal closed.

You forgot the part where Doomhammer (Warchief of the "Old Horde") Was originally the one liberating the camps, and made Thrall Warchief with his dying breath, it IS a continuation.

The "Horde of Draenor" was the same Horde that Kargath Bladefist, Grom Hellscream, AND Teron Gorefiend served following the Horde's defeat in the Second War. It was basically an offshoot of Doomhammer's Horde, which Thrall's Horde is a continuation of.

Keep in mind that Kargath is a cultural icon, having multiple locations named after him (Bladefist Bay, Keep in the Warsong Logging camp, Badlands Horde post..) And being spoken of favorably in Horde Quest text ("In his prime, Kargath Bladefist was a fine warrior, a hero and example to his people. His death is a blow to us all, but especially to Warchief Thrall. Whatever happened to him in his final days, we should not forget the orc Kargath once was, nor the lessons to be learned from his downfall.")

So it's safe to say that characters from the Horde of Draenor are fair game.

Also, Thrall's Horde never mentioned "Gorefiend" as someone they wanted to stay away from, really the only difference between Thrall's Horde and Doomhammer's Horde, is that Doomhammer relied on Warlocks and Demon Magic out of necessity, Thrall's Horde swept it under the rug. Hell, Garrosh has a more appropriate stance on Warlocks than Thrall does...

you guys already say 'deal with it' to Alliance players on every other fucking occasion when it comes to this game, you should be able to 'suck it up' when it comes to lore characterization.

We wouldn't have to say "deal with it" if you guys didn't bitch about every single fucking thing in this game (Malfurion's aggro table!)

[Salted Beef]

If Turalyon and Alleria aren't crushing every Orcish, Forsaken, or Demonic skull in sight with great vengeance and furious anger, then this game can go fuck itself.

[Lothaeryn]

So, the old Horde and the new Horde are two different things. Fine.

The old Alliance is still pretty much the same Alliance but without Lordaeron.

So why the fuck would Alleria join the Alliance when they were the ones that drove her people into the Horde in the first place? Cause if you claim the Alliance is one and the same with the one she was in, in order to "claim" her as an Alliance hero, then be aware that you also agree to the fact that it was the same Alliance that tried to eliminate the Belfs WHILE they were still members of that Alliance and WHILE they were assisting that Alliance. Add that on top of the recent Belf massacre in Dalaran and hello Horde Alleria.

First, two things about trying to demonize the Alliance for destroying Quel'Thalas:

1. if you are trying to argue that Arthas was representing the Alliance when he marched up and raised Kel'Thuzad through the Sunwell, killed everyone not Undead in sight, and raised Sylvannas as the Banshee Queen. Then you should walk out this thread right now.

2. If you are arguing Garithos sending the Blood Elves to their deaths, you have some merit in that argument. But you should also consider that Garithos was a lord of Lordaeron's hierarchy, and thus represented the Alliance as a regent in place of the Absence of authority in the area.

Ultimately however, Garithos, as Grand Marshal, was the only person representing the Alliance forces at the time, no one in the south knew what became of Lordaeron when he sent the Blood Elves on their suicide mission, Stormwind was not represented in the decisions he made up north, and had they known what that racist bigot was doing they would have recalled him from his line of duty immediately for questioning.

If Stormwind had known about the conditions in Lordaeron, they would have sent a contingent of troops to help secure territory before the Scourge could regroup effectively. More commanders would have been sent to assess the situation and Garithos would not have been directly in charge of every soldier there.

Garithos represented the Alliance because he was a political figure in Lordaeron, and being the only person of standing rank in the north only made him a political despot trying to seize power while no one was looking, and being the racist he was, nothing else could have been expected of him when he tried to kill the Blood Elves to secure his authority.

[Evilfish]

I know alot of Horde players complain that Alliance has alot of heroes left, but tell me, which ones aside from faction leaders get any character development? Which ones helped us during this new war? Which ones were on the battlefield on the front lines with us? Mekkatorque? Genn? or maybe Danath?

When you are willing to get your asses handed to you Horde style then we may talk about faction leader "screen time". As it stands, it was your lame whining that created the MOP story, but you are still whining cause the Alliance didn't get enough face time in an expansion where the Horde loses their Warchief (the second time).

You say you want character development, but cry every time Blizz puts one of "your" lore characters in danger.

[Deleted]

If one of these happen :


1) Turalyon and Alleria follow the path of Tirion/Rhonin, and become neutral to the Horde, for the greater good.
2) Turalyon is still Alliance but Alleria finds out about what happened to her kingdom and the Blood Elves, and decides to join Lor'themar.
3) We find out that one of them is dead, or dies in the process of the expansion.
4) They don't show up at all, for another expansion.


If you want my personal opinion on this, i'd like both of them to show up and join the Alliance. Damn, they even have their own statues in Stormwind, to me they are two important heroes of the Alliance.
But i have this feeling...that Alleria will choose to protect her kingdom, Quel'Thalas.
I guess it'll be a tough decision for her : To stay with her husband and her sister Vereesa , or fight for Quel'Thalas...and join her other sister, Sylvanas.

1. yes but i`m certain it will happen
2. no but i dont think it will be the case
3. no , heroes need to start dying to make the lore interesting and plausible. We had several world threats , fought countless world threatening villains yet our leaders are unscratched, and keep multiplying

[Darmalus]

I know alot of Horde players complain that Alliance has alot of heroes left, but tell me, which ones aside from faction leaders get any character development? Which ones helped us during this new war? Which ones were on the battlefield on the front lines with us? Mekkatorque? Genn? or maybe Danath?

Blizzard made the decision to make the Old Horde irredeemable, don't use the Alliance as a scapegoat as to why their heroes should be cut down to be on par with yours, whom for the most part get better character development on an expansion basis than most leaders of the Alliance have for the entire history of the game.

I want to see new heroes for the Horde, ones who are self made and Identifiable, but don't make this about the Alliance having too many heroes, you guys already say 'deal with it' to Alliance players on every other fucking occasion when it comes to this game, you should be able to 'suck it up' when it comes to lore characterization.

I can't say what it is for other players, but for me, I'm still kind of stinging from killing off half the familiar faces in Org. After killing off Nazgrim and Thathung and all the rest... what were we fighting for again? Because it feels like there's no one left.

I've just never connected to leaders, Thrall, Varian, Baine, Tyrande, etc. the way I connect to the little NPCs. The ones that kinda feel like their on my level, Cho, Nazgrim, Taylor.

[Lothaeryn]

You forgot the part where Doomhammer (Warchief of the "Old Horde") Was originally the one liberating the camps, and made Thrall Warchief with his dying breath, it IS a continuation.

The "Horde of Draenor" was the same Horde that Kargath Bladefist, Grom Hellscream, AND Teron Gorefiend served following the Horde's defeat in the Second War. It was basically an offshoot of Doomhammer's Horde, which Thrall's Horde is a continuation of.

Keep in mind that Kargath is a cultural icon, having multiple locations named after him (Bladefist Bay, Keep in the Warsong Logging camp, Badlands Horde post..) And being spoken of favorably in Horde Quest text ("In his prime, Kargath Bladefist was a fine warrior, a hero and example to his people. His death is a blow to us all, but especially to Warchief Thrall. Whatever happened to him in his final days, we should not forget the orc Kargath once was, nor the lessons to be learned from his downfall.")

So it's safe to say that characters from the Horde of Draenor are fair game.

Also, Thrall's Horde never mentioned "Gorefiend" as someone they wanted to stay away from, really the only difference between Thrall's Horde and Doomhammer's Horde, is that Doomhammer relied on Warlocks and Demon Magic out of necessity, Thrall's Horde swept it under the rug. Hell, Garrosh has a more appropriate stance on Warlocks than Thrall does...



We wouldn't have to say "deal with it" if you guys didn't bitch about every single fucking thing in this game (Malfurion's aggro table!)

you do realize that Doomhammer was also responsible for most the crimes the Old Horde is associated with? In that case, Thrall can be held accountable for the Genocide of the Draenei AND the High Elves, as the Horde is a continuation right?

If you want to go that route, then you damn better well be ready to atone for a fuckton of crimes you now claim responsibility for.

- - - Updated - - -

When you are willing to get your asses handed to you Horde style then we may talk about faction leader "screen time". As it stands, it was your lame whining that created the MOP story, but you are still whining cause the Alliance didn't get enough face time in an expansion where the Horde loses their Warchief (the second time).

You say you want character development, but cry every time Blizz puts one of "your" lore characters in danger.

in what danger was varian? what danger was Tyrande? I didnt see any danger associated with them? Thats not MY fault if BLIZZARD decides to be bad at writing conflict for both sides.

Every time the Alliance player base makes a complaint, they are complaining to BLIZZARD, not the Horde player base. It is ultimately Blizzard who makes the shots, who writes who lives and dies, we simply make our voice known about those decisions.