1. #1

    Will the Rogue Refresh not happen in WoD?

    Generally, I've been happy about the WoD changes (ex. Slice and Dice becoming passive for Mut rogue).
    My only gripe with the entire concept so far is this slide. Does this mean we shouldn't expect the refresh to Combat or Subtlety like we've been asking for for practically the entire expansion?

    (sorry for short post, there's just not that much to my question)
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  2. #2
    Blizzard implied a few times that they weren't sure the lock revamp worked out all that well at least from a player enjoyment perspective. That said those per level ability changes could pretty well change up each spec to a large degree. Until we see the official beta notes its hard to say for sure.
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  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by fierydemise View Post
    Blizzard implied a few times that they weren't sure the lock revamp worked out all that well at least from a player enjoyment perspective. That said those per level ability changes could pretty well change up each spec to a large degree. Until we see the official beta notes its hard to say for sure.
    Well the treatment locks got this expansion sure made a lot of them happy. Locks are pretty much top dps across the board and I know a lot of people who made locks just for the green fire quest line. The revamp seemed pretty successful any way you look at it and warlocks are usually pretty happy with being warlocks right now.

    Wouldn't surprise me if rogues didn't get much work though since everything they've said is that rogues aren't going to get any special treatment like locks did. They've made many references to hunters needing changes so maybe they'll get it but rogues always seem like an after thought to them.

    I don't seem em changing much up between the specs as they are. Combat will probably die again until we can get a butt ton of haste though unless they make a big change to the way that spec works so hopefully they change that up some how that's really the biggest thing I'm hoping for is to not have combat be so bad at low gear levels.

  4. #4
    Its not the just haste that made combat good, it was the set bonus and then the trinket being better for combat than anything else by an absurd amount. Combat was actually fairly decent in t14, probably at least as close as t15. Combat was also better in t11 after that mid tier patch and stayed one of the top tier specs for all of cata.

  5. #5
    Legendary! Ryme's Avatar
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    That trinket does more for combat than the legendary cloak.
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  6. #6
    Blademaster Tkilmer's Avatar
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    But without AoC combat will technically get a nerf next expansion because that trinket was so big. So they will need something.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Tkilmer View Post
    But without AoC combat will technically get a nerf next expansion because that trinket was so big.
    This is complete theory. We are not balanced at 100 yet, so losing AoC isn't a nerf. Besides which, you don't lose it, you upgrade from it. That, or they screw up horribly, and you continue to use AoC for the passive ICDR. We don't get nerfed until they nerf us, and we don't get buffed until they buff us. Everyone will get buffed on the leveling process from 90 to 100. How much our specs are buffed with respect to each other, and every other DPS, is completely unknown.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Kael View Post
    This is complete theory. We are not balanced at 100 yet, so losing AoC isn't a nerf. Besides which, you don't lose it, you upgrade from it. That, or they screw up horribly, and you continue to use AoC for the passive ICDR. We don't get nerfed until they nerf us, and we don't get buffed until they buff us. Everyone will get buffed on the leveling process from 90 to 100. How much our specs are buffed with respect to each other, and every other DPS, is completely unknown.
    How do you mean: getting buffed in the leveling process?
    Going from the previous expansions I dare to predict that we will feel weaker at 100 than at 90.
    Levelling in MoP made me wonder why I did not stay at 85. I did as much dps ending at 85 than starting at 90.
    (Stat percentage devaluation when you level is a bitch)
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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryme View Post
    That trinket does more for combat than the legendary cloak.
    AoC adds no dps to combat at all. Combat was changed this patch substantially, around the assumption that all combat rogues would have AoC- be it in LFR, flex, reg, or heroic. If they had never printed AoC, then combat would not have been trashcanned without it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Carp The Fish View Post
    Does this mean we shouldn't expect the refresh to Combat or Subtlety like we've been asking for for practically the entire expansion?
    The answer is actually, it depends when Wildstar comes out.


    You are likely correct. It sounds like they are pushing as hard as they can right now, and I suspect they plan to stomp on the Wildstar launch date if they can. This means if it launches late, they may have time to push through some spec diversity- but in general, I would say, no, there won't be many changes. Things could change- I would just be surprised if rogue diversity and depth were gonna be high on that list.

  10. #10
    Oh, I didn't say it would necessarily be a DPS increase to go from 90 to 100 ;D but we will not be "nerfed". Otherwise you'd kill L100 mobs at 90 as the best means of leveling.

    But to say we're getting nerfed because we're losing AoC, when we're balanced around AoC and won't be balanced around AoC at 100, is false. To say we'll be nerfed at all (in the sense that we'll be weaker with respect to other class/specs than we are currently) is pure conjecture.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Carp The Fish View Post
    Generally, I've been happy about the WoD changes (ex. Slice and Dice MIGHT be passive for Mut rogue).
    Fixed. At this point theres no clue what kind of things they put in game

  12. #12
    Legendary! Ryme's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Verain View Post
    AoC adds no dps to combat at all. Combat was changed this patch substantially, around the assumption that all combat rogues would have AoC- be it in LFR, flex, reg, or heroic. If they had never printed AoC, then combat would not have been trashcanned without it.
    I don't recall, I only remember that Eviscerate got nerfed but combo point builders got buffed. I assume we are balanced now around the trinket of course, but either way, it still does more for combat than the legendary cloak in the game we play, which is a pretty neat little fact I thought.
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