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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Potentio View Post
    And Cataclysm was the most successful expansion in terms of copies sold. It worked. They weren't catering the expansion initially to casuals though. In MoP, whereas they were catering to casuals more, they failed with the theme.
    Cataclysm was also advertised as the expansion that will take WoW back to it's roots and does away with excessive catering to casuals. Everything was supposed to be 5 times harder and take 10 times longer than before and they sort of kept their promise before they nerfed everything again.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Sorenthaz View Post
    And by that I mean that they'll hopefully bring the story back to more serious areas (yes, Pandaria was serious, but there was a humorous overtone in most of the zones prior to focusing on the Sha and Horde/Alliance conflict) and possibly do more to bring people back into the game.
    But obviously it backfired and they lost a lot of players instead.

  2. #102
    Legendary! Tommo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lizbeth View Post
    Cataclysm was also advertised as the expansion that will take WoW back to it's roots and does away with excessive catering to casuals. Everything was supposed to be 5 times harder and take 10 times longer than before and they sort of kept their promise before they nerfed everything again.
    Lets however, not fall into the trap of saying Cata suffered due to the (temporary) difficulty increase, Cata was bad just due to its overall design, not because it was slightly less faceroll.

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by Servasus View Post
    This has been the best expansion in all aspects by far since TBC in my opinion. Speak for your fucking self. I'm so tired of people like this.
    Speak for yourself. I enjoyed Wrath of the Lich King. The theme is what kept people going.

  4. #104
    Mop was a terrible xpax for me. All those pandas and casualisation and 0 improvement to pvp.

    Tbh i think they learned the lesson and im confident we ll see some real World of Warcraft soon.


    27y old. French buisness lawyer. Playing what my friends are playing. Destiny and Wod.

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Alienshroom View Post
    Blizzards marketing team really messed up. I mean on the Xbox Dashboard they had pandas all over the WoW ads, the TV ad was not any better. Just everywhere they busted a wow advert, they had pandas on it. Nobody thinks that shits cool.
    100% this. The theme and marketing team are what gave MoP a bad rep. Hands down MoP is better than Cata and even WotLK in most aspects. But let's face it, most young people these days aren't squares, so kung-fu pandas doesn't appeal to them, and looks lame and childish as shit.

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Tommo View Post
    Lets however, not fall into the trap of saying Cata suffered due to the (temporary) difficulty increase, Cata was bad just due to its overall design, not because it was slightly less faceroll.
    Yea it didn't feel like a real expansion at all.. I think most of the effort went into redesigning the old areas and since most players were already at level cap and werent very interested in leveling new alts, it felt like they were charging money for something that should have been free since the new low level content was aimed mostly at new players.

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Tommo View Post
    Lets however, not fall into the trap of saying Cata suffered due to the (temporary) difficulty increase, Cata was bad just due to its overall design, not because it was slightly less faceroll.

    The design of the launch of Cataclysm was actually rather great. What didn't work was the difficulty of the dungeons being almost antipathetic to the LFD feature and Blizzard's eventual giving in to the whinings of the people devoid of time. 4.0 in itself though, was actually amazing as far as the difficulty, immersion and positive surprises went. But by 4.1 they were already in the middle of two worlds, and from there on it started to pale heavily in comparison to whatever they had done before and the expansion become an ignominy and lost a lot of identity in many people's eyes.

    It had a LOT of potential, judging from 4.0 and if they had not lost their nerve, I believe the outcome would be seen up until now - fewer sub losses over the years.

    By virtue of this, I think it is pivotal that if their mind continues to fluctuate with regard to the direction of the game during the next expansion, they implement their plan B with as much care as possible.

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Potentio View Post
    The design of the launch of Cataclysm was actually rather great. What didn't work was the difficulty of the dungeons being almost antipathetic to the LFD feature and Blizzard's eventual giving in to the whinings of the people devoid of time. 4.0 in itself though, was actually amazing as far as the difficulty, immersion and positive surprises went. But by 4.1 they were already in the middle of two worlds, and from there on it started to pale heavily in comparison to whatever they had done before and the expansion become an ignominy and lost a lot of identity in many people's eyes.

    It had a LOT of potential, judging from 4.0 and if they had not lost their nerve, I believe the outcome would be seen up until now - fewer sub losses over the years.
    Agreed. They might have lost more subs initially but I think they would have gained more back and the decline would have at least been slower.

    WoW is an old game already so I have no idea why they want to draw in casuals so much. It's the loyal more serious players that make or break the game at this point and if they keep driving them again, what kind of casual new player would spend $60+ on this game as well as $15 monthly if they have so many free alternatives with better graphics and even better mechanics.

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Lizbeth View Post
    No they weren't even "space goats" and blood elves were original and even if they had some minor connections to existing cultures they weren't stereotypical people from real earth cultures in animal suits.
    orcs tribal nature took a lot from historical references and the human alliance's inner politics was mapped after medieval europe

    after all I mean a nomadic talking cow screams WC, but the beer loving talking pandas, now that isn't WC
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  10. #110
    Titan Frozenbeef's Avatar
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    Instead of trying to place a particular reason why millions left maybe you should consider there was millions of different reasons?

  11. #111
    One thing that is promising is that alot of the devs that worked on vanilla Wow and Tbc and then moved to titan, was moved back to work on this expansion.

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormspellz View Post
    orcs tribal nature took a lot from historical references and the human alliance's inner politics was mapped after medieval europe

    after all I mean a nomadic talking cow screams WC, but the beer loving talking pandas, now that isn't WC
    I think the tauren were just as bad as the pandas but they got maybe 3 zones at most, no tauren specific instances no special treatment and not many players wanted to play them either. I think players would have complained just as much if we would have got an entire expansion with a silly name like "the pastures of cowland" or something focused on tauren.

  13. #113
    One day WoW will die. The issue here, and the issue most people can't or won't understand, is that it's not going to a single thing that kills it... unless that "thing" falls under the definition of "time." WoW is already almost 10 years old, and this strange age of the Internet and the information age, that's basically the equivalent of well past retirement age. WoW's "peak" has come and gone, and while it lasted it was it most definitely a rush to be remembered. These are WoW's twilight years - it's basically cashing in Social Security checks, getting senior discounts at Denny's, and if it hasn't already made the move it's really looking into the real estate market in Florida. But MoP hasn't killed it, and TDB/WoD/Whatever the next expansion is certainly won't kill it. Every expansion and content patch breathes new life into the game, like a dose of blood pressure medication or a vitalizing treatment at a downtown spa. But each of these, over time, will deliver less and less life... until finally WoW settles into the somehow immortal state of torpor achieved by games like EverQuest, Asheron's Call, and Dark Age of Camelot.

    At that time WoW will still be around, still be a thing to be played, just by a whole lot less people. Another game will have taken the crown of "top MMO," perhaps it will be Titan, maybe it'll be something by a new publisher fresh off the presses with new ideas and new technology. I find the bickering and speculating over sub losses to be some strange theater, because we know how its going to go down. Hell, we've seen it go down before with MMO's that have preceded it.
    Last edited by Aucald; 2013-11-06 at 06:11 PM.
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  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by Tolgrim View Post
    Why is swagster not banned already? Just look at his name.
    Fixed that for you

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  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Rizendragon View Post
    The game was shedding subs long before that. It started during the tail end of Wrath, and it hasn't ever recovered. It isn't the content that is driving people away. It's the MMO market in general. The target audience in 2004-2008 is now married with children and jobs. The current gaming consumer doesn't want the old style MMOs they want something that they can pick up whenever they want and put it back down for a while. MMOs aren't that kind of game...
    This sums up my thoughts. I was a junior in college in 2004 when I bought my copy of WoW on release day. My interest in the game peaked right after Uldar, and I suddenly found myself playing less and less because "life" took priority. I completely quit in the first month or two of Cata.

    When I have time to play something, I'm likely to play LoL because the time commitment is so much shorter if you aren't determined to be one of the best. I'm just a casual player and mostly stick to ARAM's now because I might only have less than an hour a night to play.

    Do I sometimes think about WoW? Yes. And there are times when I think... maybe I'd like to revisit it. But then I remember those nostalgic times won't come back, and I'll just be playing a game that I'm not really interested in aside from possibly visiting familiar places (NElf and Draenei starting zones are very dear to me... I think it's the music and the general sense of wilderness/nature that I've always enjoyed).

  16. #116
    The story and depth of meaning in MoP is far superior to any other expansion so far, however the narrative here was hijacked by a bunch of malcontents who misrepresent the entire expansion by relentlessly using the 'panda card.' Are pandas really any less ridiculous than magic space goats or undead vikings or living statue cat people? I think that most of the people who were bashing the game over pandas are self-haters, they are people who are in the proverbial closet because in their hearts they think that 'normal' non-video game playing people would think that playing a game where you slay electronic dragons makes you some sort of man-child.
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  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by goblingirl View Post

    an awful lot of people have voted in the last year via their subscription dollars.
    You may be totally right that Pandaren had something to do with it, but..

    I think it's due to:
    a. culture shift. Many of the youth of today (the people who add new blood in to MMOs) are more in to games like CoD.
    b. The older guys like me (29) are too busy for MMOs or finally have money/families to do other things with.
    -Every single one of my rl friends I once played with quit MMOs altogether. I am the last of the group that still plays a few hours each week.
    c. There are actually other options for good MMOs now, such as: FFXIV ARR (has 1.5 million subscribers now), Rift, TOR, and a slew of other free games.

    WoW is a little tired now. A new expansion not involving "Kung Fu Pandas" may bring back some subscribers, and may even keep a few around until the end because of a more demon/legion based theme. It will not, however, change points a and b.

    I don't think we'll ever see WoW operating with the same power that it once did simply because of time and other factors that are out of Blizzard's control.
    I was excited for MoP, then I got bored in a first few months. I unsubbed because of that, the Pandaren part had no affect on my decision to play at all. I went to ARR when it came out and was really enjoying myself. Unfortunately they randomly banned a bunch of people for RMT, which some of us didn't take part in at all. I couldn't get a hold of customer service so close to launch, so I came back to Wow based on principal. I'm not saying I've never bought gold in a game, I did it quite a bit when I was younger. I haven't in many years though. Maybe the ban was karma, lol.

    Anyway, I'll be playing WoW for a few more years I suspect. I just won't be subbed the whole time, just like many others.

    tldr; Pandas did WoW in for a minority of the previous playerbase, but overall there are many other reasons that people don't play anymore.

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by Gangplank View Post
    This sums up my thoughts. I was a junior in college in 2004 when I bought my copy of WoW on release day. My interest in the game peaked right after Uldar, and I suddenly found myself playing less and less because "life" took priority. I completely quit in the first month or two of Cata.

    When I have time to play something, I'm likely to play LoL because the time commitment is so much shorter if you aren't determined to be one of the best. I'm just a casual player and mostly stick to ARAM's now because I might only have less than an hour a night to play.

    Do I sometimes think about WoW? Yes. And there are times when I think... maybe I'd like to revisit it. But then I remember those nostalgic times won't come back, and I'll just be playing a game that I'm not really interested in aside from possibly visiting familiar places (NElf and Draenei starting zones are very dear to me... I think it's the music and the general sense of wilderness/nature that I've always enjoyed).
    I was 13 or 14 when I started playing and I don't think I want to marry anyone or have children for at least 10 more years Still I guess it's true. I thought about resubscribing for a few months but MoP costs $40 + $30 for 2 months subscription maybe a little more than that because I doubt the next expansion will come out in 2 months, then at least $40 more for the expansion. Thats just too expensive and I dont think the game has enough to offer.

  19. #119
    Mechagnome
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    I honestly enjoyed this expansion on the whole. I never really saw the architecture and cultural elements as Chinese, which is odd because I'm a bit of a sinophile irl. I got a lot of fun out of MoP, but that might be because I'm social and polite, along with not having the incessant need to compare myself to others or worry about what other people are doing in a game.

    And frankly, I don't care that you didn't. End of the day, it's all relative, all opinions.
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