1. #1

    Resto: Nature's Vigil vs HotW

    I just moved from a 10m group to a 25m H group and I have been using nature's vigil only. I'm looking at logs and I see that some druids are running Hotw instead (Some only in certain situations depending on fight, and some are just straight up running it on all).

    After looking through the logs, I'm deducing that I should be switching out for some fights, if not all fights to HoTw. If someone could shine a light on this issue for me I would appreciate it. Please include what fights/situation/etc.

    Thanks.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by bwab View Post
    I just moved from a 10m group to a 25m H group and I have been using nature's vigil only. I'm looking at logs and I see that some druids are running Hotw instead (Some only in certain situations depending on fight, and some are just straight up running it on all).

    After looking through the logs, I'm deducing that I should be switching out for some fights, if not all fights to HoTw. If someone could shine a light on this issue for me I would appreciate it. Please include what fights/situation/etc.

    Thanks.
    In my experience, NV is better on every fight except Malkorok. The reason it is not as good on Malkorok is because the only benefit you gain from it is the 12% healing increase. The extra healing/damage portion of the spell is worthless on this fight because of the debuff the boss puts on the raid.

    On paper HoTW is going to be better, but only slightly. The reason I suggest NV is because it is not only a healing increase, but it adds a significant cleave heal, as well as adds some damage to the mobs you are fighting. It's cooldown is also significantly lower than most healing cooldowns. Being able to cast 1 buffed tranq every 6 minutes is nice, but being able to cast a buffed tranq every time, and have the tranq's heal cleave even more healing, and having a cooldown to use while tranq is on CD, - well thats just something I haven't seen HoTW be able to do.

    Here are some logs of my guilds runs, you can compare my healing to our other healing druid. He swears by HoTW and uses it on nearly every fight. I use NV. We are usually neck and neck most fights despite the difference in talent choices.

  3. #3
    Anyone else have insight into this?

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Whydrood View Post
    Being able to cast 1 buffed tranq every 6 minutes is nice, but being able to cast a buffed tranq every time, and have the tranq's heal cleave even more healing, and having a cooldown to use while tranq is on CD, - well thats just something I haven't seen HoTW be able to do.
    Nature's Vigil cleave is only for single target healing. As I remember, it does not cleave from traquil, it only buffs it with the 12% healing bonus.

    I just do 10M raids and I always use NV over HoTW.

  5. #5
    In my opinion Nature's Vigil should be your default. The only 25m heroic fight where I ever use Heart of the Wild is Galakras.
    Fail to prepare. Prepare to fail.

  6. #6
    Galakras and Malkorok are IMO the only fights you should use HoTW on. Galakras because it has only 1 phase where you need a decent amount of healing, and Malkorok because the cleave and damage components don't function properly with the shields. Every other fight either has no, or multiple, difficult healing phases so you're better off with NV.

  7. #7
    I've seen some heroic logs where they run HotW on more than galk and malk, is that incorrect?

  8. #8
    They are not incorrect, it's their personal preference. The delta is pretty small in any case, so personal skill and preference wins out.

    HotW also contributes non-negligible dmg during its activation phase in addition to healing increase. - maybe those druids were using hotw for that reason.
    Mew!

  9. #9
    I find HotW to be pretty fun, mainly because I like to see how much DPS I can do during Lust. On fights where you lust at the start it's cool to be able to pop HotW and do like 150k+ DPS. Makes me feel important.

    I used NV to begin with, but I found it not that fun and the healing difference is negligible really. Yes, NV is more healing. No it isn't enough to really matter. If your group is wiping it's because of other things.

  10. #10
    NV can be fairly strong, but the only times the damage is really noticeable is helping killing low hp adds and the healing increase is a fairly strong too if you're raid is stacked

    I prefer it on immereus(there's really not much time to do HoTW, constantly managing healing from pools and adds as well as healing range), protectors, norushen, sha, IJ, malkorok, spoils, thok, garrosh

    but tbh, if there's a fight where there's enough time where you're not healing much, you'll probably feel like you're getting more from HotW

    on the pull on dark shamans, gala, on the pull on blackfuse where he just sits still for a minute, naz, paragons
    also remember to pre-pot on pulls where you're using HotW on the pull (doesnt work too great on gala, because that's like the 1 time you need to heal)

    note- I'm 10m and only have done a few of these on heroic

  11. #11
    Pit Lord Alltat's Avatar
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    It comes down to what you're having problems with. Are the overall healing requirements too tough and the raid is at low health a lot and/or you run out of mana? Then go with Nature's Vigil. Is there that one annoying phase where you struggle to keep everyone up? Then go with Heart of the Wild. There's not much point in optimizing for a theoretical average, because theoretical averages never killed anyone.
    Diplomacy is just war by other means.

  12. #12
    Having done most heroic fights (10 man), I can say that on most fights NV is better, while on some fights HotW wins. As has been pointed out, you should definitely run Malkorok with HotW, and Thok with NV.

    However, the first 8 heroic bosses are becoming very easy quickly when your raid gets more gear, so they haven't been a challenge to heal for me for some time. It doesn't really make a difference which talent I use, so I might just use one or the other. Mostly I'm too lazy to switch and just use HotW for the first 10 bosses and then switch to NV for the rest.
    That doesn't mean HotW is better than NV, and it also doesn't mean I'm doing it wrong, it just means that it's not necessary to use one or the other on the first bosses. This is of course different when you progress on those bosses.

  13. #13
    Stood in the Fire
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    The increased potential throughput from NV and the redistribution of some single target healing as smart heals makes it pretty amazing on a lot of fights, particularly when I find druids are weakest at single target sporadic burst healing (ala IJ part 1).

  14. #14
    I think both work all right for most fights. On heroic 25 I use HOTW for immerseus (hotw the 2nd to last split bc that's the one that matters for heals), norushen (no particular reason bc I send most of my time soaking orbs anyway), sha of pride (DPS at start.. 100-30 is pretty easy for heals. Pop it sometime sub-30 when heals are intense), galakras (not healing intensive except just before the cannon shoots the drakes down), dark shaman (Earth breaker group is about sustained healing once he gains toxic mist and huge healing below 25%), Nazgrim (boring healing, just DPS) Malkorok (fight is all about bursting ppl from low to full shields so they can soak and you soaking so static int stam is better), Thok (coordinate w/ other heals when you use it bc it can semi-carry one or two stack phases as a cd). I'm probably going to use it for the last 3 on heroic because the static int and stam seems better since they aren't throughput intensive fights. I tried using NV on blackfuse to help aoe the mines but it doesn't seem to work that well.

    I used NV for protectors (several times of high raid dmg, like rook's measures or before He's measures when lots of bleeds are out), IJ (phase 2s), and spoils.
    Last edited by Pennoyer; 2013-11-25 at 07:35 PM.

  15. #15
    Both are usable, it will depend on the fight, your raid, your strategy, and your judgment as to which is better for you.

    HotW is usable in most cases. It shines especially on fights which are 7-8 minutes long because you get 2 activations of it despite being on a 6 minute CD. NV will give you superior healing numbers over the long term, and is on a really nice timer.

  16. #16
    Blademaster Tataie's Avatar
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    I think its a matter of choice and what you are used to.Of course there are specific fights where HOTW > NV and viceversa.Personally , i used NV for 10 man.Reasons : shorter CD , smart heals , and it does decent damage when its popped , especially on fights with more adds.

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