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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Davillage View Post
    Antisemites will probably do. Godwin moar.

    That isn't irony btw. if you beat your child and it beats someone else is that ironic?
    Don't pull the anti-Semite card please, because it is irrelevant. I do support Israel and its right to exist. What I do not support is Israels treatment of the Palestinians, the continued colonization of Palestinian territories, I don't support Israels rejection of a two state solution (I know they never clearly said they reject the option, but considering the Settlements, it is rather clear that they don't plan for a two state solution).

    And the comparison you made is also irrelevant. Israel as people carry the legacy of ethnic cleansing in their very blood. They of all people should know better. They aren't children. They are thinking, rational and intelligent people. Having it done to them, doesn't justify them doing it to others. It doesn't work like that.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    Don't pull the anti-Semite card please, because it is irrelevant. I do support Israel and its right to exist. What I do not support is Israels treatment of the Palestinians, the continued colonization of Palestinian territories, I don't support Israels rejection of a two state solution (I know they never clearly said they reject the option, but considering the Settlements, it is rather clear that they don't plan for a two state solution).

    And the comparison you made is also irrelevant. Israel as people carry the legacy of ethnic cleansing in their very blood. They of all people should know better. They aren't children. They are thinking, rational and intelligent people. Having it done to them, doesn't justify them doing it to others. It doesn't work like that.
    The human mind is a powerful thing. Even something as atrocious as genocide can quite easily be rationalized by the masses if it's spun the right way... and if there's one thing the US-Israeli political machine has gotten good at, it's spin-doctoring.

  3. #43
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    The primary suspect in the Arafat case is Israel. There really is no other person or group who wanted him dead as much as they did.
    Hamas is just as likely. And i doubt of direct involvement of the Israeli govt: for the Israeli govt. it's convenient to have a recognisable face to put on the "enemy", both to blame him for bad economy or to publicize an eventual peace deal. The military, on the other hand, could be hoping that the death of Arafat would strengthen Hamas, which in turn, would force the government to give more resources and freer reign to the military.

    In fact, both the Israel military and Hamas hated Arafat so much that it's not unlikely* they put resources together for this hit.

    *well, it's unlikely, but not all that unlikely as one might think a priori.
    Last edited by mmoca165b6ca3d; 2013-11-07 at 04:53 AM.

  4. #44
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    And the comparison you made is also irrelevant. Israel as people carry the legacy of ethnic cleansing in their very blood. They of all people should know better. They aren't children. They are thinking, rational and intelligent people. Having it done to them, doesn't justify them doing it to others. It doesn't work like that.
    Either you are some anti semite or your definition of ethnic cleansing is fucked up.

    People should just drop the holocaust out of the discussion if the historic aspect is not relevant.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by jotabe View Post
    Hamas is just as likely. And i doubt of direct involvement of the Israeli govt: for the Israeli govt. it's convenient to have a recognisable face to put on the "enemy", both to blame him for bad economy or to publicize an eventual peace deal. The militar, on the other hand, could be hoping that the death of Arafat would strengthen Hamas, which in turn, would force the government to give more resources and freer reign to the military.

    In fact, both the Israel military and Hamas hated Arafat so much that it's not unlikely they put resources together for this hit.
    Hamas, being classified an international terrorist organization, would have a notably more difficult time acquiring and "safely" deploying Polonium than Israel.

    They're not off the table, but no one hated Arafat like the Israelis.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Davillage View Post
    Either you are some anti semite or your definition of ethnic cleansing is fucked up.

    People should just drop the holocaust out of the discussion if the historic aspect is not relevant.
    I wouldn't call what's happening to the Palestinians "ethnic cleansing" but it certainly isn't "fair treatment" either.

  6. #46
    Oh, you never knew there were certain zones in contested territory between the palestinian territories and israel. Did you know, nobody lives there at the moment and that Israel is a country that grows? There are 2 main problems with the settlements, 1 is that there are illegal settlements by israeli religious extremists who take mini vans and tents and build a small place. 2 Its the territory the palestinian demands. They want to go back to the 67' border lines, and Israel plans are to build there so they wont get the lands. Why do they do that? Two countries, packed like a can of tuna fish in a small land meaning over population not far from now into the future. They take care of their future. The settlements should also incite the palestinian people to try and get a peace treaty as soon as possible to prevent more lands to be lost. They still, however , retain their ego and keep demanding yet never offering. Oh and I am so very sad about Arafat, he served humanity well for being a murderer of citizens.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Barendon View Post
    Oh, you never knew there were certain zones in contested territory between the palestinian territories and israel. Did you know, nobody lives there at the moment and that Israel is a country that grows? There are 2 main problems with the settlements, 1 is that there are illegal settlements by israeli religious extremists who take mini vans and tents and build a small place. 2 Its the territory the palestinian demands. They want to go back to the 67' border lines, and Israel plans are to build there so they wont get the lands. Why do they do that? Two countries, packed like a can of tuna fish in a small land meaning over population not far from now into the future. They take care of their future. The settlements should also incite the palestinian people to try and get a peace treaty as soon as possible to prevent more lands to be lost. They still, however , retain their ego and keep demanding yet never offering. Oh and I am so very sad about Arafat, he served humanity well for being a murderer of citizens.
    Pfft. As if there was no civilian blood on Rabin's or Netanyahu's hands.

    And what you've just described so eerily echoes the pre-WWII German ideology of Lebensraum that I'm frankly shocked I needed to point it out.

  8. #48
    You would've been right if the motive was ever a racial supiriority which is not the case. The motive is to prevent a civil war.
    Oh and there were alot of civilliand bloid on many of the world leaders today, however they never aimed at targeting civillians compared to Terrorists who kill civillians for pressure on the government.

  9. #49
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    You mean if the Israelis keep putting up settlements in the Gaza Strip and West Bank would it be ironic if the Palestinians fought back? No. Frankly it would be expected.

    Frankly I'm surprised the UN doesn't consider the settlements a form of annexation.
    The world seemingly ignores what Israel does.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Davillage View Post
    Either you are some anti semite or your definition of ethnic cleansing is fucked up.

    People should just drop the holocaust out of the discussion if the historic aspect is not relevant.
    ethnic cleansing, the attempt to create ethnically homogeneous geographic areas through the deportation or forcible displacement of persons belonging to particular ethnic groups. Ethnic cleansing sometimes involves the removal of all physical vestiges of the targeted group through the destruction of monuments, cemeteries, and houses of worship.

    The term ethnic cleansing, a literal translation of the Serbo-Croatian phrase etnicko ciscenje, was widely employed in the 1990s (though the term first appeared earlier) to describe the brutal treatment of various civilian groups in the conflicts that erupted upon the disintegration of the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia.
    http://global.britannica.com/EBcheck...hnic-cleansing

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...tbankjan06.jpg

    What is happening to Palestinians fits the above description word by word and step by step. It might be slightly slower and with fewer mass graves, but it is just as methodical, systemic, through and apparently unavoidable.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Barendon View Post
    You would've been right if the motive was ever a racial supiriority which is not the case. The motive is to prevent a civil war.
    Oh and there were alot of civilliand bloid on many of the world leaders today, however they never aimed at targeting civillians compared to Terrorists who kill civillians for pressure on the government.
    I said it closely resembled Lebensraum. You have, quite in fact, claimed Israel is snatching up contested territory because they need the living space. That has been your assertion. That is the crux of Lebensraum; that one group is inherently more deserving of space than another. That this particular version is based on nationality rather than race makes it no less abhorrant.

    Yet even if we pretend it WAS, their population density is significantly lower than MANY other sovereign or semi-sovereign states. Unless you're going to start claiming that Singapore is going to start making mad land grabs given that their pop density is almost 7x that of Israel's. Abandon the idea that the Israelis actually need the space or else there would be civil war.

    And the Israelis have bombed Palestinian civilians and confiscated aid packages even after they knew they only contained food and clothing.

  12. #52
    What a bunch of lies. What land did the palestinian people ever lost not due to a war they provoked?

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Barendon View Post
    What a bunch of lies. What land did the palestinian people ever lost not due to a war they provoked?
    What kind of a fucked up logic is that? Sounds like a justification for forced displacement.

    "They started it! So we are taking it, don't care where you go just get the fuck out!" Yay for "justice".

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Barendon View Post
    What a bunch of lies. What land did the palestinian people ever lost not due to a war they provoked?
    It's strange even for me to say this, but it's still to call them the "Palestinian people" or "Palestinian territories".

    Palestine is a recognized nation, now.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    I said it closely resembled Lebensraum. You have, quite in fact, claimed Israel is snatching up contested territory because they need the living space. That has been your assertion. Yet their population density is significantly lower than MANY other sovereign or semi-sovereign states. Unless you're going to start claiming that Singapore is going to start making mad land grabs given that their pop density is almost 7x that of Israel's. Abandon the idea that the Israelis actually need the space or else there would be civil war.

    And the Israelis have bombed Palestinian civilians and confiscated aid packages even after they knew they only contained food and clothing.
    My assertion is that israel is a prospering country that makes uses of unused lands to expand cities and build new ones that doesnt have a palestinian village in sight. What I do ask is if you ever been to israel and know about the problems the youth in israel struggles through, finding a place to live. Not enough working places ir houses.

    About the bombing part, what would you say if I told you israel blasted civillians with mail, warning them for an attack so they wont be harmed. What if I told you israel never took any aid package but rather demanded to examine it first before shipping it to gaza?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    What kind of a fucked up logic is that? Sounds like a justification for forced displacement.

    "They started it! So we are taking it, don't care where you go just get the fuck out!" Yay for "justice".
    So, the palestinian attacked israel seeking to destroy their existence and you tell me that when israel fought back and conquered them in reply is not a suitable retaliation? Because clearly you never heard of the 1948 war where 6 armies attacked a newborn country and lost.

  16. #56
    The Insane apepi's Avatar
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    Was I the only one not knowing who the fuck Yasser Arafat was when I came to this thread? >.> <.<

    My education has failed me.
    Time...line? Time isn't made out of lines. It is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round. ~ Caboose

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Barendon View Post
    My assertion is that israel is a prospering country that makes uses of unused lands to expand cities and build new ones that doesnt have a palestinian village in sight. What I do ask is if you ever been to israel and know about the problems the youth in israel struggles through, finding a place to live. Not enough working places ir houses.
    So by that logic if I go the plains of the U.S or Siberia Russia or some remote area in the Black Forest in Germany and I build a settlement on that apparently unused land that is fine? Uhum...yeah Logic.

  18. #58
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Barendon View Post
    So, the palestinian attacked israel seeking to destroy their existence and you tell me that when israel fought back and conquered them in reply is not a suitable retaliation? Because clearly you never heard of the 1948 war where 6 armies attacked a newborn country and lost.
    Omg do you think anyone would believe such zionist propaganda? The counter examples of the opossite side are equaly bad both very annoying.

    How is the Bullshit Buisness? Booming because there are alway morons who believe every shit as long as its fitting in their neat little closeminded worldview.
    Last edited by mmocd79acbf389; 2013-11-07 at 05:37 AM.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by noralya View Post
    I remember being disgusted when they showed people in Jerusalem dancing and partying because Arafat had died and at 11 I wasn't the most empathetic of people...
    Yeah, but when you remember that the other side would be dancing and partying if you died (along with 2000 of your friends), its really hard to support anyone. Be disgusted, sure, just don't pretend it's a behavior unique to them.
    Quote Originally Posted by DSRilk View Post
    The true measure of a person is how they act when they know they won't get caught.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by apepi View Post
    Was I the only one not knowing who the fuck Yasser Arafat was when I came to this thread? >.> <.<

    My education has failed me.
    Are you under 20-25? You are forgiven

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