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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    Yeah, opening the front door to a perceived threat totally isn't "nonsense".
    I didn't realize you were there when this happened. My mistake.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Tinykong View Post
    I didn't realize you were there when this happened. My mistake.
    And he felt sooo threatened that he called the cops to report it. Oh wait.

    I'll reiterate this again. This is just another case of use of firearms while really damn stupid.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    Yeah, and "reasonable belief" would hold that if you're scared of someone standing outside your front door you don't open it and call the cops.
    You don't know what actually happened, so stop trying to assume facts not in evidence. The articles are full of misinformation and outright bullshit, (which anyone should be able to see) calls of racism and calls against SYG laws.

    No real dialog will result from this nonsense. SYG laws do not give license to people to kill at will, as some would have you believe. That's just sensationalism bullshit, like everything about this case.

  4. #44
    I am Murloc! GreatOak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IIamaKing View Post
    At this point its hard to comment on anything, Maybe the home owner answered the door and the lady went nutso demanding to be let in pushing on the door ect.

    Or Maybe dude just stuck the gun out the window while she knocked and blew her brains out.

    Forming strong opinions with little information is about the dumbest thing you can do.
    Yeah, it could range from the alleged victim dying because of slamming on the door and pushing her way inside in a frenzy, to murder. I can't really make a judgment yet.
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  5. #45
    As an aside I wonder how many blacks killed blacks last night......

    Why doesn't any one ever rage on about that?
    READ and be less Ignorant.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    And he felt sooo threatened that he called the cops to report it. Oh wait.

    I'll reiterate this again. This is just another case of use of firearms while really damn stupid.
    A.K.A. Rukentuts uninformed opinion.

    Are you some sort of Michigan insider working with police information not yet released to the public? Having such a strong opinion about this case without having all the facts reeks of anti-gun bias.

  7. #47
    The Unstoppable Force Orange Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tinykong View Post

    What am I missing here?

    (1) Except as provided in subsection (2), it is a rebuttable presumption in a civil or criminal case that an individual who uses deadly force or force other than deadly force under section 2 of the self-defense act has an honest and reasonable belief that imminent death of, sexual assault of, or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another individual will occur if both of the following apply:
    MMO-Champ the place where calling out trolls get you into more trouble than trolling.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Baar View Post
    What am I missing here?
    Nothing. If there was an "honest or reasonable belief" the idiot never would have opened his door and would have at least called the cops.

    Not calling and moving her reaks of "Oh fuck, what did I just do?" and panicking to cover it.

  9. #49
    The Lightbringer Christan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belize View Post
    I thought robbers politely asked you if hey could rob your house, and would go away if you told them no...
    though sarcasm you actually have a point, most robbers now a days will indeed bang on doors etc, sometimes for 10-20 minutes, all in to make sure no one is actually home.
    then they break in and pilfer without need to be super sneaky, those pesky pets usually get stomped
    sorry, stuff like people banging on doors, and house burglaries have been on the neighborhood watch site often recently.
    Still I cry, tears like pouring rain, Innocent is my lurid pain.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Baar View Post
    What am I missing here?
    The two conditions:

    (a) The individual against whom deadly force or force other than deadly force is used is in the process of breaking and entering a dwelling or business premises or committing home invasion or has broken and entered a dwelling or business premises or committed home invasion and is still present in the dwelling or business premises, or is unlawfully attempting to remove another individual from a dwelling, business premises, or occupied vehicle against his or her will.

    (b) The individual using deadly force or force other than deadly force honestly and reasonably believes that the individual is engaging in conduct described in subdivision (a).

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    Nothing. If there was an "honest or reasonable belief" the idiot never would have opened his door and would have at least called the cops.

    Not calling and moving her reaks of "Oh fuck, what did I just do?" and panicking to cover it.
    Except, that didn't happen. Read something other than Jezebel.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Christan View Post
    though sarcasm you actually have a point, most robbers now a days will indeed bang on doors etc, sometimes for 10-20 minutes, all in to make sure no one is actually home.
    then they break in and pilfer without need to be super sneaky, those pesky pets usually get stomped
    sorry, stuff like people banging on doors, and house burglaries have been on the neighborhood watch site often recently.
    Yeah, because nothing says "super sneaky" like standing outside of someone's front door for 20 minutes banging on it.

  12. #52
    The Unstoppable Force Orange Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    Nothing. If there was an "honest or reasonable belief" the idiot never would have opened his door and would have at least called the cops.

    Not calling and moving her reaks of "Oh fuck, what did I just do?" and panicking to cover it.

    Just to make sure we are on the same page. I don't believe this person has any case (with the info we have) to be able to support self defense.



    He/She should and most likely will be charged with murder.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tinykong View Post
    The two conditions:

    (a) The individual against whom deadly force or force other than deadly force is used is in the process of breaking and entering a dwelling or business premises or committing home invasion or has broken and entered a dwelling or business premises or committed home invasion and is still present in the dwelling or business premises, or is unlawfully attempting to remove another individual from a dwelling, business premises, or occupied vehicle against his or her will.

    (b) The individual using deadly force or force other than deadly force honestly and reasonably believes that the individual is engaging in conduct described in subdivision (a).

    - - - Updated - - -



    Except, that didn't happen. Read something other than Jezebel.

    Where does it say they don't have to prove any of this?
    MMO-Champ the place where calling out trolls get you into more trouble than trolling.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Baar View Post
    Just to make sure we are on the same page. I don't believe this person has any case (with the info we have) to be able to support self defense.



    He/She should and most likely will be charged with murder.
    He should be. 2nd Degree. Would probably plead down to Manslaughter though.

  14. #54
    The Lightbringer Payday's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tinykong View Post
    The two conditions:

    (a) The individual against whom deadly force or force other than deadly force is used is in the process of breaking and entering a dwelling or business premises or committing home invasion or has broken and entered a dwelling or business premises or committed home invasion and is still present in the dwelling or business premises, or is unlawfully attempting to remove another individual from a dwelling, business premises, or occupied vehicle against his or her will.

    (b) The individual using deadly force or force other than deadly force honestly and reasonably believes that the individual is engaging in conduct described in subdivision (a).

    - - - Updated - - -



    Except, that didn't happen. Read something other than Jezebel.
    Whether he moved her or not is irrelevant if he dint call the police. Did he call the police?

  15. #55

    re:

    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    And he felt sooo threatened that he called the cops to report it. Oh wait.

    I'll reiterate this again. This is just another case of use of firearms while really damn stupid.
    I'll reiterate at how ignorant you sound, by making assumptions off something you probably know little about other than what a biased website feeds you.

    Until more actual facts are brought forth, from a reliable and legitimate source- it's pretty hard to make any claims.

    With that said though, the entire situation would really depend on the first thing I do is call the cops. If someone is beating and banging at windows, and I don't think anyone is coming in at least immediately- sure I'd try to call the cops, but I'd also sit it out inside the house with my gun. I would never go to the door, and open it if that was the case.

    If she was indeed knocking, and being a normal person, then send that bastard to the electric chair. But like I said- that website is completely biased and I don't know if those are the actual facts. And it honestly sounds like they are just trying to ignite more racial tension.

  16. #56
    I am Murloc! GreatOak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    Nothing. If there was an "honest or reasonable belief" the idiot never would have opened his door and would have at least called the cops.

    Not calling and moving her reaks of "Oh fuck, what did I just do?" and panicking to cover it.
    Well I can reasonably agree and assume that's the case at least. Everything is is yet to be determined.
    In the fell clutch of circumstance
    I have not winced nor cried aloud.
    Under the bludgeonings of chance
    My head is bloody, but unbowed.

  17. #57
    OK, in a few months this will get some publicity. People will rally around it like it's the next civil rights movement and many more people will share their opinion's on random black people getting gunned down by white people without actually looking at the case file. discussion on this topic isn't worth continuing unless a major leak occurs and we get WAY more information.

    Also if this goes down anything like the zimmerman bit, many people will get assaulted or something and no one will give a shit even though it fits the same parameters as this case.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Baar View Post
    Where does it say they don't have to prove any of this?
    It's not plausible to think someone on your property at 2:30am is attempting to commit a crime/home invasion?

    We don't know the circumstances. She may have been acting strange, screaming, got violent, who knows.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    He should be. 2nd Degree. Would probably plead down to Manslaughter though.
    Since you're just here to assume all kinds of crazy shit about this case, why don't we assume he was covered in swastikas and was a member of the local KKK?

    He probably enjoyed torturing small animals as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Payday View Post
    Whether he moved her or not is irrelevant if he dint call the police. Did he call the police?
    They are relevant, and we don't have a credible source answering those questions, so it's stupid to assume we know the answers.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Tinykong View Post
    A.K.A. Rukentuts uninformed opinion.

    Are you some sort of Michigan insider working with police information not yet released to the public? Having such a strong opinion about this case without having all the facts reeks of anti-gun bias.
    Want to buy a like button

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