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  1. #1

    Warrior Overrepresentation

    (Ever notice how all the 'good' and by good I mean incredibly bad blue posts transpire on the EU forums? le sigh)

    Source: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...9523?page=2#23
    Quote Originally Posted by Nakatoir
    Representation is not an indicator for class strength, but more for the classes popularity. Class strength is of course a factor in its popularity, but it isn't the be all and end all.

    Source: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...9523?page=2#36
    Quote Originally Posted by Ishayu of Outland (EU)
    Both yes and no. At low rating, what you say is absolutely correct, but at high rating the representation of the class matters much less than the strength of the class. It still matters, just not as much.

    So really what we're looking for a strong upward trend from global representation to high rating representation. So if we go to somewhere like World of Wargraphs (other sites tell a similar story) we see this:

    Code:
    Class / Spec       	% (2200+)	% (Global)
    Arms Warrior		23.7%		3.5%
    Frost Mage		10.9%		4%
    Restoration Shaman	9.9%		3.1%
    3.5% is the popularity of Arms Warriors. 23.7% is how good they are at high rating. That is to say, Warriors are overrepresented in high-end arena, being 6-7 times more common than the popularity of the class itself would suggest.

    If that isn't a problem, then I don't know is.

    Like I said, there are no two ways about this. Nerf Warriors, and fast. They are totally and utterly out of control.

    Frost Mages and Restoration Shamans are also running amok, clearly, but they are nowhere near Warriors. As someone just pointed out, Warriors just eclipsed S5 DK's at the most overrepresented spec in the history of the game. It is literally ruining the season.
    Amen!

    I'm not a Warrior hater either, as I have a level 90 one that I've used to PvP in BC, WotLK, and Cata, but when it comes to MoP, I gave it a shot in 5.1 and was annoyed as hell with how ridiculously easy they were to kill someone. Every season I pull it out again and re-check, and in 5.4 it is right back to the same BS of 5.1. I honestly don't like them on a personal level after getting into other classes that can be more 'supportive' to my team. Warrior is all offence and peels, and that got boring to me after 3 xpacs.

    It is not a challenge to hit one macro that fires multiple offensive cd's, Mortal Strike, and then click Bladestorm and chew a person down. Then spend the rest of the encounter effectively being a Stun-Lock cc'n out the ass Rogue-in-Plate while you wait for said cd's to reset and do it all over again. It makes no god damn sense what so ever that an AOE attack does so much damage to a single target!

    The weakness of a Warrior has historically been, snares. But now with 2 charges, an intervene which removes it that you can use even off your own skill (banners), and a leap, this isn't even remotely like it once was.

    What is the icing on the cake and mega load of horse manure is Mortal Wounds in conjunction with Battle Fatigue, which is now at 55%. That means when you fight a Warrior they are essentially reducing your healing by about half. It's like a 75% reduction from their BF+MW but you add in your PvP Power to Healing, it comes out to about that.

    NEATO that warriors who used to only have a 10% reduction to people's healing off MS at one point, are now running around in a system that gives them effectively Double Vanilla Mortal Strike power levels. http://www.wowwiki.com/Mortal_Strike

    Cool Beans, and lastly...

    Quote Originally Posted by Nakatoir
    Representation is not an indicator for class strength, but more for the classes popularity. Class strength is of course a factor in its popularity, but it isn't the be all and end all.
    Honestly when I read this I facepalmed by the sheer stupidity and ignorance of the statement.

  2. #2
    I'm guessing you never heard the phrase; Correlation does not imply causation. While it is evidence in support of warriors being over the top it is not the definitive factor.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Coraulten View Post
    I'm guessing you never heard the phrase; Correlation does not imply causation. While it is evidence in support of warriors being over the top it is not the definitive factor.
    Of course they aren't OP because they have extremely high representation, but their representation is extremely high BECAUSE they are OP. You don't get ~18-20% of the 2200+ rated representation because of hearsay and forum QQ about warrior strengths. This isn't some PVE raidbots sampling bias in effect here, this is just a case of a flat out overpowered spec. Warriors could have their current damage if they fell over dead the way frost DKs so, or they could have their current level of defense and control if their damage was low, but you can't have the best of all worlds at once. Only frost mages are allowed to have that tookit.

  4. #4
    Dreadlord
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    i don't play wow anymore, but when i did the warrior class had 1 high rated arena player.

    i don't see a problem with warriors being good for once.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Morgaith View Post
    i don't play wow anymore, but when i did the warrior class had 1 high rated arena player.

    i don't see a problem with warriors being good for once.
    Because 1.) Warrior was even the last season very strong, and because of the ridicuously scaling he is totally overpowered
    2.) The target should be balance, not every class can be overpowered once.

  6. #6
    Brewmaster dacoolist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morgaith View Post
    i don't play wow anymore, but when i did the warrior class had 1 high rated arena player.

    i don't see a problem with warriors being good for once.
    ^^ Warriors have been getting yanked for a bit, Don't get me wrong, 5.0, 5.1 - OH YEAH, 5.2, 5.3 - Warriors were THE WORST class to bring to ANYTHING PVP.

    5.4 they are over the top like 5.0/5.1, but less than they were (back then they were OP, hands down)

    - BTW, Nice post, nice points.

  7. #7
    Tbh I don't even feel like capping 2s anymore, let alone doing any serious PVP. Fuck warriors.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Morgaith View Post

    i don't see a problem with warriors being good for once.
    There is no problem with warriors being good. But they aren't good right now. They are very, very, very far beyond good.

  9. #9
    When we beat warriors in 2s I create accounts on their servers and mock them. I probably wouldn't do this if they were fair. They do about triple my damage in any arena. At the start of this season I urged caution- warriors needed buffs last season, after all.

    At this point? Nerf them. Now. The buffs were too good, and despite Holinka's claims, bladestorm buffs are absolutely the problem- definitely in RBGs, where you get a blender of four warriors that often destroys two players instantly and gets serious cools out of six. The fact that four warrior teams are viable and good is a clarion call: the rating rep is also. Reduce damage. REDUCE DAMAGE. Also reduce utility.

  10. #10
    Warriors are annoyingly OP right now. Way too much utility combined with extreme mobility and damage. When I'm on my ele shaman or destro lock, I don't even bother anymore. I just take my hands off the keyboard and sigh as they bladestorm me to death in like 3 seconds.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Coraulten View Post
    I'm guessing you never heard the phrase; Correlation does not imply causation. While it is evidence in support of warriors being over the top it is not the definitive factor.
    What, do you want to see the R2?!? Just use your common sense here - you know how easy it is to level an alt, u know how easy it is to gear it up with the catch-up system. Those high-rated players all know this and they immediately switch to the FOTM in order to help their ratings. This spike in representation is as clear an indicator as you can get in this game

  12. #12
    Isn't this a 45 page thread already? We get it, warriors are too strong. Do you feel like you actually accomplished something by posting this, or are you just looking to create your own anti-warrior circle jerk? I really like your point about calling warriors out for having Mortal Strike. I don't see that really being the problem when a handful of other specs bring that debuff. I will give it to you though, that's the first time I've heard that as reasoning for warriors being overpowered.

    I'm all for constructive discussion, but all you've really done is brought up a widely known fact, offered no real solutions, and bashed a Blizzard rep for stating a fact that is, technically, true.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Hegemonia View Post
    What, do you want to see the R2?!? Just use your common sense here - you know how easy it is to level an alt, u know how easy it is to gear it up with the catch-up system. Those high-rated players all know this and they immediately switch to the FOTM in order to help their ratings. This spike in representation is as clear an indicator as you can get in this game
    I don't disagree, i was merely stateing that representation can not be the basis for class balance, which was directed at the OP's last sentence.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Morgaith View Post
    i don't play wow anymore, but when i did the warrior class had 1 high rated arena player.

    i don't see a problem with warriors being good for once.
    cool, then stfu or try playing in mop maybe.. 4 patches..warriors overpowered for 3 of them. 75% of this expansion = warr heaven. That argument of warriors deserving their time is bs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shahada View Post
    The devs aren't stupid.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velerios View Post
    Because 1.) Warrior was even the last season very strong, and because of the ridicuously scaling he is totally overpowered
    2.) The target should be balance, not every class can be overpowered once.
    Warriors were strong last season? Lol, am I playing the same game? This is the WoW forum right?
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  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Tulkus View Post
    Isn't this a 45 page thread already? We get it, warriors are too strong. Do you feel like you actually accomplished something by posting this, or are you just looking to create your own anti-warrior circle jerk?
    Sorry man,if you don't think that public outcry effects the flow of a game that requires people to pay money to play..then i don't know.

    Threads like these do work.. i've seen them work countless times and they work because it isn't a 'circle jerk' at all..it's feedback and feedback that Blizz openly admits it uses to gauge the game.

    It's just super fkn slow.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shahada View Post
    The devs aren't stupid.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Coraulten View Post
    I don't disagree, i was merely stateing that representation can not be the basis for class balance, which was directed at the OP's last sentence.
    I agree with you to an extent, but there must be a way to quantify "OP-ness" or else it's all evidence of the type "class X killed me, therefore it is OP." Now he showed that overall warriors are not that overrepresented, only at ratings >2200 where the class "OP-ness" really matters more.

    Well, the fact that a class is too strong doesn't only affect the high-rated players but the causals like me as well. All else equal and equally skilled warriors have it easier than other classes right now.

  18. #18
    The Patient alexday14's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morgaith View Post
    i don't play wow anymore, but when i did the warrior class had 1 high rated arena player.

    i don't see a problem with warriors being good for once.
    Warriors being overpowered has sort of been a running theme this expansion, though.


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  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Lulbalance View Post
    Sorry man,if you don't think that public outcry effects the flow of a game that requires people to pay money to play..then i don't know.

    Threads like these do work.. i've seen them work countless times and they work because it isn't a 'circle jerk' at all..it's feedback and feedback that Blizz openly admits it uses to gauge the game.

    It's just super fkn slow.
    I know threads like this work, but will this individual thread make any more difference than posting in the other one? If it does, should everyone pushing for warrior nerfs create their own thread? I feel we've heard enough people complain that warriors are too strong, Blizzard sure as hell has. I would just rather see some good ideas on what needs to be changed to fix the problem.

  20. #20
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