1. #581
    Quote Originally Posted by Akraen View Post
    Eh I didn't do any tuning or anything, just wanted to get the ideas out there.

    Bomb changes are good for spell lockouts and fixing our frost bomb issue and some nitpicky things I've had with them this entire time.

    Cold Snap's powerful but it has a longer cooldown.

    My L90 talents are an illustration of how mages can change the environments they are in. Icy Ground takes it a step further and lets you interact with the environment. Then lets mirror images serve as a dynamic cooldown to make it not become a movement issue.

    Having all the L90 talents change mirror images a bit could be fun!
    I didnt notice the longer CD on Cold Snap. I see now. Interesting.

    In regards to Icy ground, what do you imagine cleave damage as being? NT is clearly a cleave, but is IB spreading of DoTs and the glyph of splitting covered under that?

    It could actually be pretty cool if you had choices as fire - If you were going to do a bunch of DoT/Combustion spreading, Icy Grounds. if not, Pact of Flame.

  2. #582
    Warchief Akraen's Avatar
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    I mean the new stats coming next expansion, multistrike and cleave. Think of it as if you had KTT and FCoR equipped today, it would boost that.

    And yeah I'm really going for choices that don't make you feel like you're completely sacrificing spec identity. Give L75 an elementalist mixture theme and it allows L90 to be more than arcane/arcane/arcane. Each option would be viable in any situation but ideal in specific situations.

    And it would be an opportunity for the mage to see himself growing in power with a rune that draws itself and becomes gigantic, ever-growing. Or to see their world in flames, encircling their enemies in a massive ring of fire that empowers them. Or the mage sees the ground below them freeze and fracture, making the air cold and everything feel like it's shattering.

  3. #583
    Honestly the rune expanding over time while standing in it just seems like the opposite of what you'd want out of the rune, it gets biggest when you don't need to move and stays smallest when you do...

  4. #584
    Warchief Akraen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Imnick View Post
    Honestly the rune expanding over time while standing in it just seems like the opposite of what you'd want out of the rune, it gets biggest when you don't need to move and stays smallest when you do...
    Any ideas for an arcane environment changer? Multiple runes draw themselves in various locations? Maybe you can teleport to any prior rune you had on the ground and they don't fade away?

  5. #585
    Moderator LocNess's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akraen View Post
    Any ideas for an arcane environment changer? Multiple runes draw themselves in various locations? Maybe you can teleport to any prior rune you had on the ground and they don't fade away?
    I remember there being a large suggestion for Mages to be able to Glyph Blink to teleport to their other rune in early MoP. I think it could be kind of ridiculous without a range limit, but something to think on.

  6. #586
    I don't know about you guys but the feeling I'm getting is that RoP and the talents in that tier are gong to be reworked to be more along the lines of IW. Rumor has it (wink wink) mana management is not gong to bea part of those talents anymore and arcane is getting it's own form of regen to compensate. The way I see it going is that just like IW is "absorb damage to gain damage" RoP will become either a 1 min or a 45s CD that you place on the ground to do more dps. I don't know how they would deal with invocation though, would be harder to turn that concept into a damage CD

  7. #587
    Quote Originally Posted by Polarthief View Post
    Slice and Dice: Now Passive
    Chakra: Lower Cooldown
    Fireball: More Damage. Seriously? -_-

    In all seriousness though with the supposed new relevant topic, I'm not sure how I feel about all our spells being stolen from other NPCs/places. What's next? Giving us Flame Wreath to launch players/NPCs 200 yards into the air, but it does nothing if the targets don't move? :X
    I'm sorry, do you not want that? I don't care if it isn't original, that sounds fun as fuck. Pair yourself with someone with a fear, disorient, or knockback and BOOM! It'd be like ring of frost, except way more fun/satisfying

  8. #588
    All I want at the moment is to be cool, lol. They should give back blastwave, and give fire some frost procs or something and vice versa. Also something with Al'ar, like a breathe or a huge dragon falling down at the target dealing AoE damage. Also new visuals for pyroblast and bring back the wrath/cata fireball and make it bigger + more burning shit.
    Yes this is all I want, don't care about the 90 talents anymore since they will just fuck them up even more.

  9. #589
    Moderator LocNess's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by voltaa View Post
    I don't know about you guys but the feeling I'm getting is that RoP and the talents in that tier are gong to be reworked to be more along the lines of IW. Rumor has it (wink wink) mana management is not gong to bea part of those talents anymore and arcane is getting it's own form of regen to compensate. The way I see it going is that just like IW is "absorb damage to gain damage" RoP will become either a 1 min or a 45s CD that you place on the ground to do more dps. I don't know how they would deal with invocation though, would be harder to turn that concept into a damage CD
    Hmmm. I would rather have RoP be a longer CD than that. 1min 30-3min or so. Evocation I think could just work the same as it used to, 2min CD that regens most of your Mana as well as giving you a 15% damage boost for the next 15-30 seconds? Give a buff like "Energized" or something.

  10. #590
    I want at least one 90 level talent to become just passive along the lines of, I don't know, "makes your Armors better at what they do":
    Molten Armor also increases critical damage by 10% (i.e. increases Critical Strike by in a different way),
    Frost Armor also decreases your cooldowns by 10% (i.e. haste-like effect, but not quite)
    Mage Armor also increases Frostblot's chance to trigger FoF by 5%, all spells chance to trigger Magic Missiles by 5% and Firebolt critical strike chance by 5% (since Mastery "makes you better at what you do", Mage Armor Mastery-like effect is similar: making you better at your spec)

  11. #591
    Quote Originally Posted by LocNess View Post
    Hmmm. I would rather have RoP be a longer CD than that. 1min 30-3min or so. Evocation I think could just work the same as it used to, 2min CD that regens most of your Mana as well as giving you a 15% damage boost for the next 15-30 seconds? Give a buff like "Energized" or something.
    remember that this is just my own speculation. The 45s CD was just an example since Blizz seems to like 45/90/3min intervals on CDs and mechanics.

  12. #592
    Moderator LocNess's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by voltaa View Post
    remember that this is just my own speculation. The 45s CD was just an example since Blizz seems to like 45/90/3min intervals on CDs and mechanics.
    Suppose that is true. It is nice when thinks can line up properly. Such as (even though I complained about it couple pages ago) Combustion, Alter Time, and PoM all have great synergy together, as annoying as the entire combination is.

  13. #593
    Quote Originally Posted by voltaa View Post
    I don't know about you guys but the feeling I'm getting is that RoP and the talents in that tier are gong to be reworked to be more along the lines of IW. Rumor has it (wink wink) mana management is not gong to bea part of those talents anymore and arcane is getting it's own form of regen to compensate. The way I see it going is that just like IW is "absorb damage to gain damage" RoP will become either a 1 min or a 45s CD that you place on the ground to do more dps. I don't know how they would deal with invocation though, would be harder to turn that concept into a damage CD
    That'd be an improvement.

    I imagine with Invo, they'd make it a longer channel with a CD in return for a shorter but much stronger damage buff. That'd make it feel more like a cooldown than a maintenance buff - and much more of a threat in PvP provided you could actually get off a full Evo channel.

    On the other hand, with both the RoP design and this Invo design, there is a lot of potential for burst on pull, and I think they are trying to move away from that design.

  14. #594
    Moderator LocNess's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fim View Post
    That'd be an improvement.

    I imagine with Invo, they'd make it a longer channel with a CD in return for a shorter but much stronger damage buff. That'd make it feel more like a cooldown than a maintenance buff - and much more of a threat in PvP provided you could actually get off a full Evo channel.

    On the other hand, with both the RoP design and this Invo design, there is a lot of potential for burst on pull, and I think they are trying to move away from that design.
    I don't think a longer channel will be a good idea. Imagine how many mages sitting in poison or fire for an extra 2 seconds or so just to get the CD. It would lead to a lot of lost DPS, pissed off healers, and annoyance on our side. It was bad enough during 5.0-5.1 especially with a 10sec CD on top of it.

  15. #595
    Quote Originally Posted by LocNess View Post
    I don't think a longer channel will be a good idea. Imagine how many mages sitting in poison or fire for an extra 2 seconds or so just to get the CD. It would lead to a lot of lost DPS, pissed off healers, and annoyance on our side. It was bad enough during 5.0-5.1 especially with a 10sec CD on top of it.
    Right - that'd be the challenge.
    Currently Invo is the default for Fire and Frost, precisely because there isn't much of one - there is almost no downside at present, other that it being annoying.

  16. #596
    Moderator LocNess's Avatar
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    Akraen, I saw you propose your talent redesign on the Mage Blizz forums. I recommend not posting there, 'tis a silly place.

  17. #597
    Mechagnome Zatetic's Avatar
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    Your dream list is a good one Akraen, unfortunately it will remain a dream.

    As much as I think mages need a serious and complete overhaul, I also dont think we will get one.

    Something needs to be done about Fire, enough is enough really. The spec is horrible for half an xpac then god for half an xpac and nerfing the only cooldown it has isnt the solution.
    Frost is in a strong place at the moment, but it could still use some work.
    Arcane is really a good spec to play but being tied to your rune is becoming bothersome.
    Retired from WoW.

  18. #598
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrgreenthump View Post
    I think it was more abt showing examples of thing they are doing.. Chakra is a CD, Fireball is a filler and SnD is Maintanence buff. Now certainly they wanna get rid of SnD it seems. So rather than remove it, it is now passive. Mages prolly won't have something like that. Infact mages don't have much of anything that can be applied like Chakra or SnD. Maybe Flame Strike and our core CC spells.
    Granted, but one thing I'd like to actually talk about is SnD becoming passive. Anyone else think Savage Roar and Inquisition will get the same treatment? Perhaps that could be a hint that L90 talents are gone for good. If you remove one maintenance buff, why not remove them all?

    To be fair though, SnD for Assassination was always a joke (for those who don't know: 1CP SnD as Ass = essentially passive once you Envenom), but was that passiveness applied only to Assassination or Rogue in general? If general, we can pretty much confirm the removal of maintenance buffs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Akraen View Post
    <SUPER SNIP!>
    Tier 1
    PoM's still meh. TBH I'd kill for an Improved Blink (70% Movement speed for 3s after blinking). Would fit the tier a little better, methinks. Doesn't break anything (except stuns/bonds, and ONLY if unglyphed), so it'd be in line with BS.

    Tier 2
    New FG seems a bit OP for PvE and UP for PvP.
    IB needs its GCD removed, and that glyph would be really interesting to use...

    Tier 3
    All look good, but Ice Ward simply cannot trigger Hypothermia or it won't be used. "Oh shit, I reached 25% HP, now I can't use Ice Block or benefit from it from Cold Snap's Passive". That's counter-intuitive.

    Tier 4
    Like the change to CS, but it's still eh overall. If IB is on cooldown anyways, it won't matter. You might as well take Cauterize at that point.
    Speaking of which, Caut needs some changes.

    Tier 5
    While I see what you're getting at, that doesn't really change much.

    Tier 6
    I thought we were all AGAINST maintenance buffs and standing still... These are all terrible. :|

    Quote Originally Posted by Zatetic View Post
    Something needs to be done about Fire, enough is enough really. The spec is horrible for half an xpac then god for half an xpac and nerfing the only cooldown it has isnt the solution.
    Frost is in a strong place at the moment, but it could still use some work.
    Arcane is really a good spec to play but being tied to your rune is becoming bothersome.
    Fire begs for an overhaul; MoP has proved that it's broken beyond believe. Frost needs some tweaks (but if it doesn't get any and is kept competitive, I'll be happy). Arcane needs some mobility. L90 talents need to be completely scrapped; RoP could stick with Arcane but I never want to see IW and Invo ever again, and RoP when I'm not Arcane. L75 talents should be looked at, but if not changed, whatever; Frost Bomb should become usable while moving or Instant. Cold Snap needs tweaks for more PvE use. Flameglow needs to be scrapped or overhauled completely; IB needs to be off the GCD. PoM needs to be scrapped or granted some form of added bonus (sorta like Akraen's idea, but make it "for 5s after consuming PoM" instead of "before consuming PoM").

    If Blizz changes all of the above mentioned, I will be happy.

    Retired Veteran Raider: [T14] 10/16H, [T15] 12/13H, [T16] 7/14H
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  19. #599
    High Overlord Huevos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zatetic View Post
    Your dream list is a good one Akraen, unfortunately it will remain a dream.

    As much as I think mages need a serious and complete overhaul, I also dont think we will get one.

    Something needs to be done about Fire, enough is enough really. The spec is horrible for half an xpac then god for half an xpac and nerfing the only cooldown it has isnt the solution.
    Frost is in a strong place at the moment, but it could still use some work.
    Arcane is really a good spec to play but being tied to your rune is becoming bothersome.
    Agree completely. Fire needs a revamp - I really don't understand why they don't just rip off the bandaid and fix it. Hopefully they don't think it's because they don't have the time because they'd make that time up in a few patches by NOT having to fix it then. Makes zero sense.

    Anyway, I think Frost is fine where it is output-wise, but I think it could use a bit of added complexity. There really isn't a whole lot of decision making going on. The only challenge is moving efficiently and managing your bomb.

    Arcane would be perfect if it weren't as immobile as it is. The rotation isn't exactly difficult to execute, but at least there is some decision making that affects your output in managing your mana level. I'd like to see the spec get a little more mobility without the help of Ice Floes, but even without some sort of instant cast (that doesn't reset your charges) Ice Floes makes dealing with movement reasonable.
    Last edited by Huevos; 2013-11-20 at 03:53 AM.

  20. #600
    I personally think the talents themselves is causing more trouble (for mages at least) than being helpful Zzz :P

    just feels like its really hard to make and balance the three spells in a single tier talent

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