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  1. #821
    Stood in the Fire Deithy's Avatar
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    Mage's not able to multidot - please please Blizzard confirm that you remove them.

    I loved Frost bomb in in T14 (but well you cant really call FB a bomb, its more like a single target spell with delayed effect), I TOTALY HATED THE WHOLE BOMB TIER IN T15!!! And in T16 if feel to mandatory to snapshoot and multidot everything that moves on your screen to be able to do "decent" dps...

    These "things"... these "ambominatios"..., i must admit they felt nice in the beging of MoP introducing a bit diffrent game play, but that was before, but after the 5.2 "buff"... that tier of tallents made feel me feel my mage like a warlock/spriest/boomkin. I dont like throwing dots all over the place. I like the part of the mage that he can concentrate on the prio target and devastate it with high number nukes and shizzles... not its just dot that, dot this, snapshot if possible = top dps meter/compete with the warlock.....
    Total crap. The mage is the single target nuker, not multidoter for crying out loud... arcane spec is called glass cannon for a reason...

    On the thing Mastamage posted - I would suggest better thing i typed recently in another thread here on the forum witch i believe can be very good substitution to the "bomb" fiasko and yeah - Remove them in WoD! I wanna play mage again!

    Quote Originally Posted by Deithy View Post
    How about make the bombs like passives? :P

    Arcane Vortex
    X% of the damage done by your Arcane blast is stored on the target. This effect stack. After reaching 5 stacks the vortex will implode dealing 100% of the stored dmg on the main target and Y% of the damage stored split to all other targets within 5 yards radius. Also this effect can be triggered by your Arcane barrage no matter of the stacks.If the effect is trigered by Arcane barage the effect is reversed (it will deal Y% of the dmg stored to the main target and 100% of it to all targets within the radius). Last 10 seconds
    Replace Nether Tempest.

    Hungering cold
    Your frostbolt and frostfire bolts consume the heat of its victum. After reaching 5 stacks the area around the target is purged from any heat and all enemy within 5 yards freeze into a solid cube of ice for 3 seconds. (Wotlk Frost dk spell :P ) Ice Lances cast near the affectet targets cause them to also be damaged by it (not sure how exactly to formulate this its basicaly next Ice lances will hit all the freezed targets) for 50% of its damage. Last 10 seconds
    Replaces Frost bomb.

    next one is a bit unpolished. I dont want it to look exactly like the arcane version. It will be weak on low ilvl and OP with higher ilvl. Unless they change something about fire mechnics
    Firestarter
    X% of the damage of your Fireballs, Inferno Blasts and Pyroblast(maybe?!?) hits are stored on your target (its not like ignite or maybe it is in a way :P ). After reaching 5 stacks your next Pyroblast will get a bonus dmg equal to the damage stored and will cause your target to explode Y% of it split to all other targets within 5 yards radius and knock them down. Inferno blast cast within 3 seconds after the explosion spread the current Ignite or Combustion, witchever is highest, to all targets within 5 yards. Last 10 seconds.
    Replace Fire bomb.
    An these things will be spec specific as seen from the tooltips :P
    P.S. well the fire bomb can stay as it is for fire spec, cause i dont think Firestarter fits very well atall tbh :P
    Last edited by Deithy; 2013-12-17 at 10:14 AM.
    Someone once told me not to bite off more than i can chew. I said i would rather choke on Greatness than nibble on Mediocrity.

  2. #822
    Warchief Akraen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mastamage View Post
    I would actually prefer each bomb to be applied to only 1 target and have each do a set amount of damage (sometimes split evenly between X number of targets) and have the secondary effects be different. Similar to what we have but we have a target # limitation. We're always going to be pigeon-holed into a specific bomb on an encounter but this might help alleviate some of our pain.

    For example:

    Living Bomb limit 1 target. Living Bomb applies 275k damage over 12 sec. When this effect ends, or target dies, it explodes to deal an additional 90k, split evenly, to the target and 2 others within 10 yds.

    Nether Tempest limit 1 target. Nether tempest applies 250k damage over 12 sec. When this effect ends, Nether Tempest will explode, releasing flying tempests which can affect up to 4 random targets within 10 yds for 120k split evenly amongst targets. If there is no cleave available then a single Tempest is released on current target, damaging it for 20k.

    Frost Bomb limit 1 target. Frost Bomb has a static 8 sec CD and a 2 sec cast time (lowered by haste). Frost Bomb explodes after 5 sec (unaffected by haste), dealing 175k to the primary target and an additional 225k to up to 6 targets. (pretty much the same but made the CDs unaffected by haste) (maybe a major glyph could be added to make Frost Bomb an instant cast but increase its CD by 2-3 sec)


    I know these are rough looking but you get the idea. What I want is for the bombs to be single target but have the secondary effect be different. Feel free to tear these apart or elaborate on them. I am in no way a game designer but I feel this suggestion at least has us going in the right direction.
    This is pretty much exactly what I want. Except I'm pushing to have spellfire, frostfire, and spellfrost damage due to lockout reasons. PvPers will surely agree with me that mages have a single-school problem. But it's not just that, there will be more Thok-style fights in WoD, interrupts are going to be a thing going forward from what I understand. Hoping mages begin voicing concern about that -now- and not once they see the next expansion. Quote and date my quote on this :P

  3. #823
    Quote Originally Posted by Akraen View Post
    This is pretty much exactly what I want. Except I'm pushing to have spellfire, frostfire, and spellfrost damage due to lockout reasons. PvPers will surely agree with me that mages have a single-school problem. But it's not just that, there will be more Thok-style fights in WoD, interrupts are going to be a thing going forward from what I understand. Hoping mages begin voicing concern about that -now- and not once they see the next expansion. Quote and date my quote on this :P
    Is there any way for them to stop making us feel pigeon-holed on a bomb? This tier was a little better but only frost felt like it could take advantage of using different bombs on single target and some multi without as much dps loss compared to Arcane or Fire.

  4. #824
    Warchief Akraen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mastamage View Post
    Is there any way for them to stop making us feel pigeon-holed on a bomb? This tier was a little better but only frost felt like it could take advantage of using different bombs on single target and some multi without as much dps loss compared to Arcane or Fire.
    The original design goal of the tier and the way they are now don't match up at all.

  5. #825
    Bloodsail Admiral Frost1129's Avatar
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    What was the original design?

  6. #826
    Color me one happy ass mage if they eliminate multi-dot from mages

    I specifically rolled this toon back in Cata because I did not like the multi-dot play style of Shadow Priest and Warlock

  7. #827
    Stood in the Fire Deithy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gallamann View Post
    Color me one happy ass mage if they eliminate multi-dot from mages

    I specifically rolled this toon back in Cata because I did not like the multi-dot play style of Shadow Priest and Warlock
    i personaly will color you two happy ass mages
    Someone once told me not to bite off more than i can chew. I said i would rather choke on Greatness than nibble on Mediocrity.

  8. #828
    Elemental Lord Polarthief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrgreenthump View Post
    Comfirmation about something for a class that has been unhappy with how they have been forced to play for a really long time.
    *Coughs* What exactly did we get confirmation about? "Mages not able to multidot" changes nothing but NT/LB target cap to 1, which I personally think is bad gameplay as it offers little to nothing for uniqueness other than pushing a pointless bomb in our faces to keep up, rather than, I don't know, make our gameplay/rotations more engaging.

    Progression pre-nerfed: [T17] 6/7H; 0/10N

  9. #829
    Quote Originally Posted by Polarthief View Post
    *Coughs* What exactly did we get confirmation about? "Mages not able to multidot" changes nothing but NT/LB target cap to 1, which I personally think is bad gameplay as it offers little to nothing for uniqueness other than pushing a pointless bomb in our faces to keep up, rather than, I don't know, make our gameplay/rotations more engaging.
    Most Mages I have talked to.. Didn't like multidotting at all, they would rather see dots gone from Mages. Is that a good thing, prolly not, but it's what the community thinks. They want Mages to feel different, not 1 of the 5 caster classes that all feel the same. Personally I get why the dots are in the game, but I wouldn't miss them. Well as Arcane I would, if they are determined to continue with the cast time on everything option

    Also if the bombs are here to stay, I probably wouldn't like max target 1 option, but if that is what it takes for dots to feel relevant yet not OP.. I'm fine with that. In any case what the tweet implies is that we will have max 1-2 bombs up at a time, which means just refreshing your bomb every 11-13 seconds. Not terribly engaging I agree.

  10. #830
    Moderator LocNess's Avatar
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    Going to re suggest just adding flavour to each bombs:

    Each explosion of Living Bomb spreads a mini-ignite to up to 10 targets ticking for 15% of the explosion.

    Each tick of Nether Tempest grants 1.5% mana back to the caster.

    Each Frost Bomb explosion shoots out icicles at nearby enemies doing all of the damage of your stored icicles.

  11. #831
    Warchief Kuni Zyrekai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LocNess View Post
    Each Frost Bomb explosion shoots out icicles at nearby enemies doing all of the damage of your stored icicles.
    Ooo, I potentially like that. It's quite easy to have none up for the explosion, though.

  12. #832
    Moderator LocNess's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuni Zyrekai View Post
    Ooo, I potentially like that. It's quite easy to have none up for the explosion, though.

    It would just add a factor of making sure to get your Frostbolts in before you bomb, which might line up with a CD to the bomb? Has potential I agree.

  13. #833
    I'd like the bombs to be gone and have their dps added to our direct damage spells.
    Sha of *Gay* Pride!

  14. #834
    Warchief Akraen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milamber View Post
    I'd like the bombs to be gone and have their dps added to our direct damage spells.
    In an ideal world that's what I would have. Though with a lot of different changes, like removal of snapshotting, I think we need to not eliminate all of the complexity. I'm a fan of simple, only a few buttons, but easy-to-learn hard-to-master is a good thing.

  15. #835
    I'd like to pose a question and this is the thread to do it.

    How do you see each of our specs? What vision do you have for each of them? What should they be and how should they be different from each other. Because spec diversity is sort of an issue isn't it.

    For me, it is clear.

    FIRE

    Fire should be the only spec that even touches dots in any shape or form. Dots SHOULD be the spec's identity, even if only applied passively via ignite.The entire spec should be built around fireball, instant pyroblasts, mobility via scorch and ignite.
    Essentially I think Fire is almost where it should be. The big problem for fire right now is Combustion, the cooldown. It's been redesigned time and time again.

    Iteration 1:It increased the critical strike chance of the next fire spell by 100%, only guaranteeing one critical strike. The cooldown was 5 minutes.
    Iteration 2: When activated, this spell causes each Fire damage spell you cast to increase your critical strike chance with Fire damage spells by 10%. This effect lasts until you have caused 3 critical strikes with Fire spells. 3 minute cooldown
    Iteration 3: Redesigned to be the super dot, based upon all our ticking spells on the target.
    Iteration 4: Redesigned to simply mirror our Ignite. Continually nerfed.

    I don't know about you but a spell that has been redesigned four times and STILL isn't satisfactory is an issue. For me personally, this spell and it's interaction with Alter Time and PoM are a massive Horsefly in the ointment as even though it was awesome to produce big numbers in pre nerf scenarios it always felt like a clumsy way of doing so.

    We KNOW they are going to change the way these three spells interact with each other so they should take time to build a combustion that really works. The first step they could do is remove the glyph. I'm sorry but that glyph is part of the balance issues problems. Stop treating Combustion as our big cooldown, the equivalent of Icy Veins and Arcane Power. Make it a spell we pop on a 45 second cooldown with a ten second (minimum, new level 100 talents) duration.

    It should remain based on our ignite value...partially. I say give Combustion a base dot damage, base application damage and add in a percentage of our ignite so we can still try and aim for a good combustion but crucially will not be TOO penalised for messing up.

    FROST

    I'll say it now. I think Frost should be built into our pet spec. It is the perfect method of differentiating it from Fire and Arcane. I know some people don't like pets but there are two other specs for you if you don't. There shouldn't be a glyph opt out or a talent opt out from the pet.

    But the pet is so bland. It has a ranged frost nova, and that is awesome, but it's a permanent pet for a spec that should be more fully pet based. Take a look at these

    Fire Elemental has a kick ass new look and it has 274k hp and 9616 mana
    - Fire Blast: 40 mana 20 yard range 6 sec cd Instant cast - Inflict Fire damage to an enemy
    - Fire Nova: 30 mana 10 sec cd 1.78 cast - Inflicts fire damage to nearby enemies
    - Immolate: 95 mana 30 yard range 1.78 sec cast 10 sec cd - Burns an enemy, then inflicts additional fire damage every 2.67 sec for 21.37 sec
    - Empower: 40 yard range Channeled 10 sec cd - Empower the elementals creator with fiery energy, increasing all damage dealt by 5% and healing by 10% while channeling continues.
    - Attack, Follow, Move To, Assist, Defensive, Passive commands ( just like hunter pets)

    Earth Elemental has 457 hp and a cool new look as well
    - Angered Earth: Instant 5 sec cd - Taunts and causes additional high threat to all enemies within 15 yards
    - Pulverize: Melee Instant 40 sec CD - Smash an enemy with a rocky fist, dealing 150% damage of normal attack, and stunning target for 4 sec
    - Harden Skin: Instant 1 min CD - The caster's skin hardens into pure granite, reducing all damage taken by 40% for 10 sec.
    - Reinforce: 40 yard range Channeled 10 sec CD - Surround the elemental's creator with an earthen shield, reducing all damage taken by 20% and increasing healing done by 10% while channeling continues.
    - Attack, Follow, Move To, Assist, Defensive, Passive commands


    Those are the abilities for TEMPORARY pet summoned by shamans they have to spec a talent to get. Taunts. Stuns. An aoe. Even a buff for the caster. I am not saying the Water Elemental should copy these, but surely the Water elemental could get a few more abilities to manage?

    ARCANE

    And what should arcane be in my opinion?

    Arcane should be everything Frost and Fire are not. Arcane should have nothing to do with dots. Arcane should have nothing to do with pets. Arcane should be for the Mage who wishes to basically blow crap out of the water. Like fire it is almost there. I think it needs a little more work.

    I also think could do with a bit more 'Time' in it's character. If anything defines arcane now, it is Arcane's time magic. I am not sure how they could do that, but it would do wonders for Arcane's personality.
    Last edited by Obelisk357; 2013-12-19 at 10:02 PM.

  16. #836
    Arcane should be as it was in Cata - controllable DPS cycle with controllable mana burn during the damage burst. No freaking dots or procs.

  17. #837
    Quote Originally Posted by Army Dreamer View Post
    Arcane should be as it was in Cata - controllable DPS cycle with controllable mana burn during the damage burst. No freaking dots or procs.
    Am afraid that NT/LB were the saving graces of Arcane being viable this exp at all. They were the only spells aside from Scorch, Arcane Explosion and Arcane barrage that you could cast while moving. They need to fix Arcane's problem with movement before anything else tbh. It's fine for a class to be a "turret", but when your DPS is suffering really badly as you got nothing decent to cast while moving.

  18. #838
    Quote Originally Posted by mrgreenthump View Post
    Am afraid that NT/LB were the saving graces of Arcane being viable this exp at all. They were the only spells aside from Scorch, Arcane Explosion and Arcane barrage that you could cast while moving. They need to fix Arcane's problem with movement before anything else tbh. It's fine for a class to be a "turret", but when your DPS is suffering really badly as you got nothing decent to cast while moving.
    Maybe Arcane should turret. If mobility is an issue, why not embrace the problem. Completely mad off the wall idea, allow Arcane to literally turret, damage mitigation in exchange for being snared or rooted.

  19. #839
    Quote Originally Posted by rumaya2000 View Post
    -Snip-
    I for 1 don't think dots are Fire's identity at all. Mages whole identity is direct damage. If you take that away, how would fire differ from Destro Warlock? Now sure Ignite is a dot, but it comes from direct damage. And what comes to fire being fine.. it's far from it, the spec is really boring as is, you have fireball spam, get crit, use IB and stuff, continue fireball spam. Either with high crit or no crit, the spec is almost the same all over again with using combustion every 45/90 seconds.

    And what it comes to Frost, as said before Mages identity is direct damage. And Frost plays around Freeze-->Shatter ideology. It works rather ok atm. Needs a few tweaks here and there, but Frost is good.

    Arcane in the other hand.. I feel like it really has a hard time to find it's true identity. Mana play sure, but since they brought it to Arcane, it has almost never been interesting option. I'd rather have Arcane changed completely. And while I'd like to see Blood or Battle Mage as a mage spec in WoW, it will prolly never happen.. And time modifying didn't really work either this expansion when looking at Alter Time. Arcane needs something to identify itself by, it just has nothing atm. And the spell graphics for Arcane blow.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by rumaya2000 View Post
    Maybe Arcane should turret. If mobility is an issue, why not embrace the problem. Completely mad off the wall idea, allow Arcane to literally turret, damage mitigation in exchange for being snared or rooted.
    Turret would be fine, but I doubt Blizzard would ever allow damage migitation to that extent. So you would really need something to be decent to use while moving, something that makes you feel that Standing still > movement, but something that still does decent damage when you actually have to move.

  20. #840
    Quote Originally Posted by mrgreenthump View Post
    snip
    I have to disagree. I know Mages are all about direct damage and that is what they gave us this expansion. Three specs that are functionally identical. I believe that the differences between the specs should be enhanced so that we can get access to more variety.

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