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  1. #1841
    Quote Originally Posted by rumaya2000 View Post
    At what point did I say anyone should 'shut up'? I didn't.

    Reserving a talent slot for removing the Water Elemental means giving up something that frost could otherwise have. If the other two specs get something impressive in that slot, and frost's is 'remove pet' then we have an issue. It's an entire talent designed to placate a small group who probably shouldn't be playing frost anyway as frost is now a pet spec and has been since 4.0.

    It is the equivalent of selecting Beastmaster Hunter in the expansion, and then complaining you cannot select lone wolf.
    You didn't say these exact words, but it's how your POV can be rephrased. Think of it - you don't like the idea, you are against adding it even as an option, you somehow calculated that people who'd want such an option are a "small group", you even suggest those people should not play the spec. See the pattern? You don't like it and you think that different opinions are negligible and should be dismissed. In other words, if you don't like WE, then shoo, go away.

    Plus, comparing Frost Mage to Beastmaster Hunter is a big stretch. BMs are focused on their pets, it's the main theme of a spec. Frost's theme is frost school spells and freezing/chilling mechanics. BM, a pet-centric spec, cannot function without a pet, while Water Elemental for Frost is just another spell in a spellbook, and a pretty boring one mechanics-wise.

  2. #1842
    Elemental Lord Polarthief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    What about Mirror Image. It doesn't seem to do much. In terms of Damage out put.
    In many games, MIs do zero damage. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Blademaster (from WC3) MI didn't do damage.

    TBH, I'd like them to not do damage, but have some form of secondary function besides the Fade-like effect, giving me 3+ extra incoming hits, and pulling mobs I don't want them to pull.

    Progression pre-nerfed: [T17] 6/7H; 0/10N

  3. #1843
    Warchief Akraen's Avatar
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    My dream for Mirror Images:

    They look like they do exactly what you do. So if you run up and frost nova, so do they. If you're casting evocate, they appear to be doing that too-- but they aren't. I'd like them to do 0 damage, but provide a lot of confusing utility. And, I think while active, all damage dealt to you is split among the images.

    I'd love to see the possibilities of having more images, or even a permanent image for Arcane that just mimics you but does nothing, maybe as a glyph. That'd be so fun.

  4. #1844
    Quote Originally Posted by Polarthief View Post
    In many games, MIs do zero damage. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Blademaster (from WC3) MI didn't do damage.

    TBH, I'd like them to not do damage, but have some form of secondary function besides the Fade-like effect, giving me 3+ extra incoming hits, and pulling mobs I don't want them to pull.
    Quote Originally Posted by Akraen View Post
    My dream for Mirror Images:

    They look like they do exactly what you do. So if you run up and frost nova, so do they. If you're casting evocate, they appear to be doing that too-- but they aren't. I'd like them to do 0 damage, but provide a lot of confusing utility. And, I think while active, all damage dealt to you is split among the images.

    I'd love to see the possibilities of having more images, or even a permanent image for Arcane that just mimics you but does nothing, maybe as a glyph. That'd be so fun.
    Thing is though, what does MI do right now? It's a threat and target drop, right? And the images supposedly do enough combined damage to be worth the button press. It's a pretty awesome spell, it looks good but if we are honest with ourselves it's role is pretty poorly defined.

    A threat drop when we also have invisibility, a spell that is also really half a spell (Greater Invis is the REAL invisibility as far as I'm concerned. Talent this ability kids so it's actually useable), and a bit of damage but not enough to be viable. The target loss is the only real utility it has, but it's very limited in pvp and besides if the goal is to stop the target attacking you, greater invisibility is probably a better button to press.

    In fact, I wonder if Mirror Image and base invisibility are individually so anemic is that despite their differences they are two abilities trying to accomplish the same thing, stop us from being hit.

    Yes, it would be nice if we could devise a new utility function for Mirror Images but they are also trying to devise something for alter time. But I still want to plug my opinion.

    1.) Greater Invisibility becomes baseline, I am not sure about the self-cleansing aspect but the spell with the short cooldown and temporary invulnerability, that replaces baseline invisibility and becomes our baseline survivability spell.

    2.) The reworked alter time is placed where greater invis now. Maybe the self-cleansing aspect of current greater invisibility, which could be too powerful for a baseline spell, could be folded in here somehow.

    3.) Mirror Images becomes a level 90 talent, a cooldown spell where you summon three images for x seconds that each deal a substantial amount of damage to your target. This would be balanced against the level 90 talent we suspect remains as a cooldown, Rune of Power. Mirror Images would be a fire and forget cooldown, but I believe it would have it's own drawbacks.

  5. #1845
    I think defensive Mirror Image talent is the best outcome for MI. All 3 specs already have a throughput cooldown, and Blizz wants to get rid of stuff that ends up in a macro.

    Mirror Image's most useful application is soloing old content, which is a very narrow niche for a spell, but Mage is one of the worst classes at that, so removing it seems like a low blow. However as a talent it can become a lot more interesting.

    1) The images may stand not right behind you as bodyguards, but position themselves (with a Blink perhaps) at a distance from one another. While they are active, the Mage could swap position with a random image by casting Mirror Image spell again. Fun and potentially useful in PVP, might need to be unable to body pull for PVE purpose.

    2) The damage you receive may be split between images (or the mage and his images).

    3) The mage might become invisible and his casts may appear as being cast by a random image.

    4) The images may assist you in casting your spells, so that you cannot be interrupted while they are alive.

    5) If a direct damage or CC ability is cast at the mage, it gets reflected at an image.

  6. #1846
    Moderator LocNess's Avatar
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    My MI dream would be making it a 20 second CD where you can drop an MI anywhere in a 40 yard range and it will count as a player for soaking things such as puddles on bosses.

  7. #1847
    My MI dream would be all damage, no utility.

    You cast MI and for 20 seconds you get a buff. Every time you cast a spell an image of yourself appears and casts the same spell for 10 seconds. It's a damage button and you get to have alot of fun going for a few images casting longer/stronger spells or alot of images casting quicker/weaker spells.

  8. #1848
    I didn't realise there are so many mages unhappy with the level 75 talents as a whole!
    I main spec frost and i for one love them. Personally i've become very comfortable with switching my talents and glyphs out per boss fight and per trash packs. Frost bomb for sweet deeps on trash and boss fights when it warrants it. Living bomb for single or two targets. Nether Tempest for spread multi-dottage. I find them very flexible and functional and in my opinion serves to make the class as a whole more enjoyable to play.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Akraen View Post
    My dream for Mirror Images:

    They look like they do exactly what you do. So if you run up and frost nova, so do they. If you're casting evocate, they appear to be doing that too-- but they aren't. I'd like them to do 0 damage, but provide a lot of confusing utility. And, I think while active, all damage dealt to you is split among the images.

    I'd love to see the possibilities of having more images, or even a permanent image for Arcane that just mimics you but does nothing, maybe as a glyph. That'd be so fun.
    I like it! So they'd act like the Monk copies from Storm, Earth & Fire

  9. #1849
    I always wanted mirror image for arcane to be more like a pet. It would copy all that you do, but for less damage while being controlable. Possible split a % damage taken between it to help pvp arc. However what i'd really want for it would it to have a cd that would swap locations between you and the image, while also swapping any current targets that may be targeting each, like a hunter's missdirect.

  10. #1850
    Mirror Image's most useful application is soloing old content,
    Also great for out in the world solo play in general if you have a bunch of mobs on you. We do have invis, but MI is for stuff I want to kill too, but you can certainly use it like a second invis if needed <3 MI
    Last edited by MrExcelion; 2014-03-22 at 06:09 PM.

  11. #1851
    The Unstoppable Force Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polarthief View Post
    In many games, MIs do zero damage. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Blademaster (from WC3) MI didn't do damage.

    TBH, I'd like them to not do damage, but have some form of secondary function besides the Fade-like effect, giving me 3+ extra incoming hits, and pulling mobs I don't want them to pull.
    I don't believe they did anything in WCIII or they did minimal damage. I don't remember specifically. It's been awhile since I touched WCIII
    Blizzard do not destroy Jaina Proudmoore's character. Make her who she once was, not full of rage and vengeance.,If you are curious about me or about my writing aspirations, feel free to pst me. Paladin-Sorcerer at your service! My Youtube Channel https://www.youtube.com/user/Aeluron Big fanboy of Yrel now. Love her now

  12. #1852
    High Overlord Ryuuki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akraen View Post
    My dream for Mirror Images:

    They look like they do exactly what you do. So if you run up and frost nova, so do they. If you're casting evocate, they appear to be doing that too-- but they aren't. I'd like them to do 0 damage, but provide a lot of confusing utility. And, I think while active, all damage dealt to you is split among the images.

    I'd love to see the possibilities of having more images, or even a permanent image for Arcane that just mimics you but does nothing, maybe as a glyph. That'd be so fun.
    This sounds a bit like Mesmers from GW2, and tbh I would love for blizzard to further explore this, as I think Arcane currently is only an interesting spec for the minmax pve'rs.

  13. #1853
    Images have great potential, but the suggestions here are a little too close to Monk's Storm, Earth and Fire, albeit with a CD and without the damage reduction. Blizz aren't that keen on homogenisation, even though they've been shoehorned into it at nearly every corner.

    Personally, I think MI has quite an 'Arcane' feel to it, and could be used as some part of a redesign of that spec. Arcane Power being effectively the only Arcane cooldown and just being 'you do more damage' is the dull cherry on a dull rotation. If I could spawn a copy of myself, and have it have some interaction with how I generate charges, well; that's for the designers to contemplate.

    Not that any of this will ever happen as the whine if any spec lost it (even if we were given GI as baseline) would be flat out hilarious. Mahh aggro'z! Yawn.

  14. #1854
    Quote Originally Posted by Nightfall View Post
    Chromatic bolt!

    Shaman got Elemental Blast which is basically a chromatic bolt - I think it would be only fair if mages got a fire/frost/arcane type blast nuke. I wouldn't even mind if it was a complete copy of the shaman talent for that spell.

  15. #1855
    Quote Originally Posted by Pyromelter View Post
    Shaman got Elemental Blast which is basically a chromatic bolt - I think it would be only fair if mages got a fire/frost/arcane type blast nuke. I wouldn't even mind if it was a complete copy of the shaman talent for that spell.
    Shaman's Elemental Blast is more like seeking aid of all the elements at once, thus EB deals damage with all elements and buffs the caster with multiple secondary stats. But Mage's Chromatic Bolt IMO should be a more complex fusion of FrostFire damage, which is further empowered with Arcane. So it should apply additional effects to its target, contrary to buffing the caster. E.g. like this:

    Chromatic bolt - a powerful 2.5 sec cast (pre-haste) spell, which deals SpellFrostFire damage, uninterruptible, knockbacks the enemy a medium distance and slows its movement speed by 40%, 15-20 sec cd.
    40% snare is a nod to Frostfire Bolt, deals increased damage in comparison to FFB/FB/FrB so it's always #1 cast priority, uninterruptible to avoid full 3-school lockout and to make it PVP-viable. Knockback is debatable, I just love the mechanic. I miss Blastwave too much. =)
    Last edited by Nightfall; 2014-03-24 at 11:26 AM.

  16. #1856
    Dreadlord Zenny's Avatar
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    Hoping for better looking spell effects, majority of the Fire and Frost spells are just sad.

  17. #1857
    Elemental Lord Polarthief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightfall View Post
    40% snare is a nod to Frostfire Bolt, deals increased damage in comparison to FFB/FB/FrB so it's always #1 cast priority, uninterruptible to avoid full 3-school lockout and to make it PVP-viable. Knockback is debatable, I just love the mechanic. I miss Blastwave too much. =)
    So since it has a knockback, I'm assuming it's got a cooldown, making this spell a lot less entertaining, akin to Elemental Blast. Any cast-time spell that's filler-ish is just bleh, and it's why I chose not to play Elemental because they're riddled with that stuff

    Progression pre-nerfed: [T17] 6/7H; 0/10N

  18. #1858
    Quote Originally Posted by Polarthief View Post
    So since it has a knockback, I'm assuming it's got a cooldown, making this spell a lot less entertaining, akin to Elemental Blast. Any cast-time spell that's filler-ish is just bleh, and it's why I chose not to play Elemental because they're riddled with that stuff
    Yeah, it's supposed to have 15-20 sec cd to justify its effects, as written. =) Otherwise the PVE rotation becomes (CDs -> ChrB) x ∞.
    Last edited by Nightfall; 2014-03-25 at 06:24 AM.

  19. #1859
    Moderator LocNess's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Since Fire scales much better then all other specs, devs had to nerf it every major patch to get it back in line
    It doesn't necessarily have to scale better than other specs. We have one change coming that helps prop it up at early gear levels.
    Hmmm. That is a very good thing. I am assuming maybe just some built in crit? Or making our current 4P built in to the spec (however that might make it very powerful in the long run, or too much like chaos bolts).

  20. #1860
    Maybe it's some kind of baseline crit stacking mechanic, like old Combustion? If your Fire spell doesn't crit, you gain a stacking 5% crit buff, which is removed upon crit.

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