6.0 Mage Speculation & Paranoia

[Imnick]

As far as I can guess Mumrit, Mirror Image is the "Low risk, lower reward" choice, as it's just a button you press every three minutes. Probably has higher burst potential than the other two though!
Arcane Flows on the other hand is possibly higher risk and reward than RoP, as you get a two second window of it at maximum power every 10 seconds and taking advantage of that will take some skill.

[Mumrit]

To match the current out put of RoP (+15%) MI has to add nearly +80-90% of your damage for 30 seconds every three minutes.

Of course, this number can and will fluctuate when you take into account that we won't be balance around perfect up time of ROP (though arguably more up time now than previously, given the switch away from movement heavy encounters), taking into account the risk of a MI dying, and whether or not Readiness ends up directly benefiting MI. Regardless of where the final value falls, it's a cool down that is going to have to be absurdly powerful. Will the risk of a MI dieing be properly worked into it? Can it? What are the PVP implications of having such a strong cool down?

I like the idea of having a stronger-than-today version of MI on the 90 tier, but I just don't think it's a good idea to leave a longish cool down on that tier alongside RoP. Honestly, unless RoP is changed to a short duration cool down, it's going to be a challenge to balance any sort of cool down with it.

[Florena]

I would like to see RoP changed, perhaps to a short duration cooldown like frozen orb where it has say a 1m cd and lasts for 15 seconds so you have to time it and aren't expected to stand in it near 100% of the time, but my biggest concern with the lvl 90 tier is mirror images, being just a bland 'press this button and damage is done for you' button. I do like IF though.

[MrExcelion]

I have little doubt that MI will need a PVP coefficient. Personally I thought they'd be much more liberal with coefficients this xpac since it gives them the proper tuning knobs

[Silverlite]

I don't get it though. How is Ice Lance proc'd now? Is it still from Frostbolts? But then FFB is also proc'd from Frostbolt (10%).

Also with the FFB, it stacks up to 2 times but doesn't make it instant. Does that mean you can't use FFB unless it procs and when it does it's just a cast proc?

[Aceveda]

I don't get it though. How is Ice Lance proc'd now? Is it still from Frostbolts? But then FFB is also proc'd from Frostbolt (10%).

Also with the FFB, it stacks up to 2 times but doesn't make it instant. Does that mean you can't use FFB unless it procs and when it does it's just a cast proc?

Fingers of frost procs from frostbolt, ffb & frozen orb.

FFB won't be instant, but it'll act as if your target is frozen & does 25% more dmg.

[Elegiac]

Fingers of frost procs from frostbolt, ffb & frozen orb.

FFB won't be instant, but it'll act as if your target is frozen & does 25% more dmg.

Additionally, Water Elementals finally receive the Water Jet spell which will generate additional Fingers of Frost procs.

[Deztru]

Why is arcane marked "Uh... yeah. Fuckall so far."

I don't see anything disturbing in the notes

[Elegiac]

Why is arcane marked "Uh... yeah. Fuckall so far."

I don't see anything disturbing in the notes

Arcane lost the most spells out of the three specs - what is more worrying is that the loss of those spells has left gaps in its toolkit and hasn't addressed a lot of critical issues. The first problem is that Arcane only has Slow as a spec-specific CC, which after the removal of its cast time increase portion has become a piece of garbage. The second problem is that Arcane has lost its means of both snaring and AoEing packs of mobs at range - to do AoE damage it has to get into melee range. The third issue is that it does not have a reliable means of resource generation (Arcane Charges) on the move or in an AoE scenario.

[Imnick]

Why is arcane marked "Uh... yeah. Fuckall so far."

It says "fuckall so far" because we have not yet received any Arcane-specific patch notes apart from what spells have been removed, the talents and the perks.

[Deztru]

Arcane lost the most spells out of the three specs - what is more worrying is that the loss of those spells has left gaps in its toolkit and hasn't addressed a lot of critical issues. The first problem is that Arcane only has Slow as a spec-specific CC, which after the removal of its cast time increase portion has become a piece of garbage. The second problem is that Arcane has lost its means of both snaring and AoEing packs of mobs at range - to do AoE damage it has to get into melee range. The third issue is that it does not have a reliable means of resource generation (Arcane Charges) on the move or in an AoE scenario.

Well I've never ever had to use Slow since I dinged 90. Don't even PvP.

I've used Blizzard to snare the mobs on Garrosh HC a couple times but it has never been the "gamesaver".

I've used Ice Flows (It was corrected in the April 1st patch!) To cast RoP into the melee as I run there, then spam AE with a RoP already there so it doesn't really gimp anything. Ice Floes is a good way to refresh the stacks using AM, AE works too if the situation allows it (most bosses have ridiculous melee-range for AE to hit them) or finish my casting cycle with Barrage and use the low manacost AB's to get stacks while moving.

The only downside I see in the patchnotes is the increased cast time of AB, it already feels too slow without Tempus Repit or BL up to start the casting cycle.

[Elegiac]

Well I've never ever had to use Slow since I dinged 90. Don't even PvP.

I've used Blizzard to snare the mobs on Garrosh HC a couple times but it has never been the "gamesaver".

I've used Ice Flows (It was corrected in the April 1st patch!) To cast RoP into the melee as I run there, then spam AE with a RoP already there so it doesn't really gimp anything. Ice Floes is a good way to refresh the stacks using AM, AE works too if the situation allows it (most bosses have ridiculous melee-range for AE to hit them) or finish my casting cycle with Barrage and use the low manacost AB's to get stacks while moving.

The only downside I see in the patchnotes is the increased cast time of AB, it already feels too slow without Tempus Repit or BL up to start the casting cycle.

The fact remains that Arcane once had access to those tools, which were clearly not gamechanging enough to make the spec overpowered yet were still available. Arcane has received no compensation for the massive nerf to its CC kit, which will ensure that the spec continues to suffer in PvP.

As I've said, using a talent to fix native problems is poor design. Arcane has very limited ways to generate its resource reliably, and with the only AoE means being point blank this limits the spec in a way that a ranged class should not be limited.

The increased cast time of Arcane Blast is offset by the fact that it will do proportionately more damage on a per cast basis, as well as the fact that one of Arcane's perks cause Charges to decrease the cast time to 1.5 seconds at four stacks. The goal of the change is to make Haste a more valuable stat for Arcane.

[Alroxas]

The fact remains that Arcane once had access to those tools, which were clearly not gamechanging enough to make the spec overpowered yet were still available. Arcane has received no compensation for the massive nerf to its CC kit, which will ensure that the spec continues to suffer in PvP.

TL;DR but why would you pick Arcane in a PvP setting? It's by far the most turret like of the three specs. I could understand if you were talking from a PvE stand point that Arcane doesn't have as much CC potential / arcane charge generation / etc. but to my knowledge the traditional class for mages in PvP was frost.

- - - Updated - - -

I like the idea of having a stronger-than-today version of MI on the 90 tier, but I just don't think it's a good idea to leave a longish cool down on that tier alongside RoP. Honestly, unless RoP is changed to a short duration cool down, it's going to be a challenge to balance any sort of cool down with it.

Except that it seems that readiness (secondary stat) could affect the CD on MI. Unsure how much you could stack but if it brought a 3min CD to 2min that might make MI pretty strong. Remember that MI get 50% of spell power from mage. If it's snap shot (unlikely) that could be your stacking offensive CD button.

Arcane Incanter's flows will be interesting to see if it can be syngerized with a X Arc Blast followed by Arc Barr rotation. Depending on haste (and other factors) it could see 2 or 3 Arc blast followed by Arc Barr so that Arc blast gets the full 25% buff with stacks of Arc Charge... Maybe...

[Deztru]

The fact remains that Arcane once had access to those tools, which were clearly not gamechanging enough to make the spec overpowered yet were still available. Arcane has received no compensation for the massive nerf to its CC kit, which will ensure that the spec continues to suffer in PvP.

As I've said, using a talent to fix native problems is poor design. Arcane has very limited ways to generate its resource reliably, and with the only AoE means being point blank this limits the spec in a way that a ranged class should not be limited.

The increased cast time of Arcane Blast is offset by the fact that it will do proportionately more damage on a per cast basis, as well as the fact that one of Arcane's perks cause Charges to decrease the cast time to 1.5 seconds at four stacks. The goal of the change is to make Haste a more valuable stat for Arcane.

Arcane Orb will become a reliable way to generate charges, if it works like frozen orb we could easily get ~8 ticks and charges off of it just on single target. But just as you said it will become a talent to fix the problem.

As for the perks it will be interesting to see some of the old talents (Arcane Power and Blink) coming back as perks, is Blizzard starting to backtrack a bit?

(Might as well play Fire as usual in the start of an expansion, only crit and no procs/charges crap)

[Deleted]

Just concerned with both arcane and fire losing access to CoC mostly and then shatter. Deep not so much as there was a long time they never had them, but you used to always be able to spec into frost up to shatter. CoC is such a nice tool to kite with and having it replaced with DB seems clunky, especially now DB will dr with poly.

[genjur0]

WoD L75 talents and L100 talents will fill the gaps in the Arcane toolkit, notably the ability to dps on the move as well as more effective AoE from range. Note that Supernova also "knocks-up" targets when it deals damage, so it becomes a CC option as well.

L45 talent still exists (for now) as our CC line, so there's PoM ring and PoM frostjaw as options.

And Slow is garbage, sure, but considering CoC will be Frost spec-only(for now), it'll be useful just in the fact that it'll be Arcane's only snare option. Note that Slow will be castable on multiple targets in 6.0 as well.

[Elegiac]

Arcane Orb will become a reliable way to generate charges, if it works like frozen orb we could easily get ~8 ticks and charges off of it just on single target. But just as you said it will become a talent to fix the problem.

As for the perks it will be interesting to see some of the old talents (Arcane Power and Blink) coming back as perks, is Blizzard starting to backtrack a bit?

(Might as well play Fire as usual in the start of an expansion, only crit and no procs/charges crap)

I believe Blizzard has recognized that, as regards the pure classes especially, they over-homogenized without really making an impact as to the problems faced by the class.

Fire's crit scaling problem may actually be resolved given that Intellect no longer provides critical strike rating and Fireball will provide a stacking crit buff designed to smooth out Hot Streak procs at low gear levels. Still, there remains the problem of its Mastery and Haste being worthless by comparison.

[Alroxas]

So what this means is that everyone gets 5% base crit, and Agi users get 15% base crit. How the hell will this work for Fire which will still rely heavily on crit, especially if you pick up Kindling?

And speaking of Fire, Fire's rotation is: Spam Fireballs, use IB when one crits, use Pyroblast on procs, and Combustion when it's best to use it. You can add a few things to the rotation, like DB, FS, and the talents, but if you pick the passives, you basically just get those 4 base spells since NT/LB is no longer mandatory.

Finally, why the fuck do we still have 2 L90 talents being base damage increasing spells? I'm in utter shock they're keeping a maintenance buff and not making it just auto-appear under you after standing still for awhile. And MI as a damaging cooldown? Great, just bloody great. Can't wait for them to roam and hit things that aren't my primary target.

Fire has Enhanced Fireball which grants 5% extra crit (lasts for 15s) when you don't crit with Fireball and goes away once you crit. Not sure if this would stack (probably not) but if it did, that would help mitigate crit at low gear levels. However, crit stacking might have competition with readiness which reduces the CD on combustion (among other spell CDs).

Aside from RoP, Incanter's flow seems like a passive buff that cycles from 5% to 25% changing 5% every second (so it goes up then down then repeat). I don't think you have to do anything. MI is a CD but remember readiness, it reduces this CD as well as Combustion (at least from what I've seen so far).

[Elegiac]

WoD L75 talents and L100 talents will fill the gaps in the Arcane toolkit, notably the ability to dps on the move as well as more effective AoE from range. Note that Supernova also "knocks-up" targets when it deals damage, so it becomes a CC option as well.

L45 talent still exists (for now) as our CC line, so there's PoM ring and PoM frostjaw as options.

And Slow is garbage, sure, but considering CoC will be Frost spec-only(for now), it'll be useful just in the fact that it'll be Arcane's only snare option. Note that Slow will be castable on multiple targets in 6.0 as well.

You appear to have missed the point. Using talents to fill baseline holes is poor design. It's trying to pile frosting onto a cake that tastes like crap.

And no, the level 75 talents and the level 100 talents do not fill the gaps. In the case of the former, we either have to choose between AoE damage or CC - furthermore, we do not actually -gain- a CC spell with Supernova, we exchange an arguably more critical spell for an arguably less effective one.

Presence of Mind will not work with any CC spells according to the current line. You also bring up a fair point in that the whole idea behind the level 45 tier was to give Arcane and Fire more spells to synergise with Shatter - something which is no longer the case.

Slow and CoC fill two different niches. Your line of argument is line saying that removing someone's liver makes their lungs more valuable. The point is that Arcane has lost the ability to snare multiple targets both at range and close-in; Slow is not an adequate substitute due to it being single-target.

- - - Updated - - -

Fire has Enhanced Fireball which grants 5% extra crit (lasts for 15s) when you don't crit with Fireball and goes away once you crit. Not sure if this would stack (probably not) but if it did, that would help mitigate crit at low gear levels. However, crit stacking might have competition with readiness which reduces the CD on combustion (among other spell CDs).

It does stack, that is the entire point - it's a rehash of old Combustion to smooth over crit at low levels.

Aside from RoP, Incanter's flow seems like a passive buff that cycles from 5% to 25% changing 5% every second (so it goes up then down then repeat). I don't think you have to do anything. MI is a CD but remember readiness, it reduces this CD as well as Combustion (at least from what I've seen so far).

The issue is not with Incanter's Flow. The issue is that Rune of Power is essentially a more annoying and more restrictive passive buff that will either be ignored by most players or will have to be buffed to insane levels in order to compete, making mages feel obligated to take it.

Mirror Image possesses an issue in that in order to be competitive with RoP and Incanter's Flow it has to increase our damage by 12 - 15% over the course of an entire fight; for a 3 minute cooldown, it has to deal a -lot- of damage for its duration, leading to rather insane levels of burst.

[Florena]

Fire has Enhanced Fireball which grants 5% extra crit (lasts for 15s) when you don't crit with Fireball and goes away once you crit. Not sure if this would stack (probably not) but if it did, that would help mitigate crit at low gear levels. However, crit stacking might have competition with readiness which reduces the CD on combustion (among other spell CDs).

Aside from RoP, Incanter's flow seems like a passive buff that cycles from 5% to 25% changing 5% every second (so it goes up then down then repeat). I don't think you have to do anything. MI is a CD but remember readiness, it reduces this CD as well as Combustion (at least from what I've seen so far).

Not sure that readiness would reduce the cd of MI unless I"m mistaken, as with WW monks in SoO they didn't let the cd reducing trinket affect Xuen as not to make the trinket favor one talent above the others that tier.