6.0 Mage Speculation & Paranoia

[Deleted]

I think Frost is fine, especially since there are new secondary stats in WoD to scale off of. Fire could use some mechanic to smooth out its all-or-nothing approach. But Arcane is different. I loved the spec back in Wrath, both in PVE and PVP, despite its drawbacks. However I can't stand its MoP iteration. They've added some unfun mechanics upon heavy mana restricton - dire lack of mobility, maintenance buffs - and perfected the obsessive-compulsive aspect of the spec. "Rune, bomb, one, two, three, four, can-do-more - four!, AM, can-do-more - four!, bomb, AM, can-do-more - four!, too low - ABarr, one, two......". I couldn't make myself to really play it this expac.

Same here. My first lvl 70 back in BC was a mage and I played Arcane in TBC, Wrath and Cata. Loved it. MoP? That rune ticks me off... Mana management is fun, I really think so, but the rune is just horrible. I with Blizzard could go back to the style where you dumped your mana during bursts. Mastery prevents that a bit, but if Arcane Power got changed to "gives you the full benefit of mastery regardless of mana level for the duration", it would work wonders.

[Polarthief]

Hot streak could just work like fingers of frost :P Since they love to homogenize.

Technically it did in Cataclysm since you had no control over it. Also, T3 Hot Streak could still proc randomly if your crit wasn't high enough.

[Deleted]

I think Frost is fine, especially since there are new secondary stats in WoD to scale off of.

Frost will not exist in its current form come Wod, it was thoroughly badly designed and is broken on a fundamental level.

[Imnick]

Frost will not exist in its current form come Wod, it was thoroughly badly designed and is broken on a fundamental level.

You're going to have to back that claim up with a little more than "it just is"

[durrtygoodz]

Frost will not exist in its current form come Wod, it was thoroughly badly designed and is broken on a fundamental level.

That's the stupidest thing I've ever read. I literally cringed when it got linked in IRC. First of you got no evidence to even claim that frost will be overhauled, also there are plenty of people that love the way frost plays and wouldn't change anything about it.

[Frost1129]

Frost will not exist in its current form come Wod, it was thoroughly badly designed and is broken on a fundamental level.

This is potentially a very interesting idea. Please expand.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I just had a stupid idea. Arcane Fire as a spell. Like Frostfire but Arcane fire(Arcane blast but with a fire dot).


It's more creative then mechanical.

[Frost1129]

Technically it did in Cataclysm since you had no control over it. Also, T3 Hot Streak could still proc randomly if your crit wasn't high enough.

That's not really what T3/T4 Hot Streak did in Cata. It gave you a bonus crit rating which scaled inversely with the crit rating on your gear up to a certain point before being worth 0.

[Nightfall]

I just had a stupid idea. Arcane Fire as a spell. Like Frostfire but Arcane fire(Arcane blast but with a fire dot).


It's more creative then mechanical.

That would be called Spellfire damage in WoW terms. Actually that might be an interesting idea for a talent or even a talent tier - spell schools synthesizing. Something like a talent tier:

1. a talent that makes FrostFire Bolt relevant to your spec by tying it in with spec's mechanics,
2. a talent that adds another element and effects to your spec's main nuke,
3. a talent that provides a new rotational spell. Yeah, you guessed it - Chromatic bolt! =)

[Imnick]

Yeah it would be really nice if there was some kind of proc that made frostfire bolt relevant to mages wouldn't it

[Deleted]

That's the stupidest thing I've ever read. I literally cringed when it got linked in IRC. First of you got no evidence to even claim that frost will be overhauled, also there are plenty of people that love the way frost plays and wouldn't change anything about it.

I actually quite like the way frost plays. The icicles are a lot of fun, it is much more interesting to play than in any previous patch.

I have some evidence frost won't appear in its current form in the next expansion. Check the video on my sig there. There will be fixes, but they almost certainly won't solve the fundamental problem.

[Kuni Zyrekai]

That bug, which is quite hilarious, is easily fixed by resetting Icicles on a zone change or fixing the buff to not stack stupidly. That's not really proof of anything changing.

I'd be surprised if it survived to tuesday.

[Deleted]

That bug, which is quite hilarious, is easily fixed by resetting Icicles on a zone change or fixing the buff to not stack stupidly. That's not really proof of anything changing.

I'd be surprised if it survived to tuesday.

I'll keep this very short to make the moderators lives easier.

The issue can't be resolved with zone change resets. That will definitely not fix the problem.

You might want to check your logs next time you frostbolt an MC player at Garrosh for a partial
explanation. The glitch is not something any one is doing, it is in the construct of frost mastery.

Trust me, there is no way the current mechanic can survive. A great pity in some ways
as the icicles do look really cool and the gameplay is interesting.

[Narsha]

Cool, fun to learn new things! So if this isn't a bug or an exploit of some kind you should be able to recreate it regulary, want to see those logs so I can take from it!

[Nightfall]

That's quite an exaggeration. A fun and successful mechanic won't be removed due to some random exploits. And as any other exploit, it'll be dealt with.

[Deleted]

That's quite an exaggeration. A fun and successful mechanic won't be removed due to some random exploits. And as any other exploit, it'll be dealt with.

Come on. Just trust him. /s

If this is indeed repeatable, it will be fixed. Almost 100% without changing the entire Frost mastery they only recently (and very successfully) revamped.

If anything stays of the current Frost paradigm, I'd wager it'd be the mastery.

[Deleted]

That's quite an exaggeration. A fun and successful mechanic won't be removed due to some random exploits. And as any other exploit, it'll be dealt with.

I don't think you followed what I was saying.

Exploits are an extreme illustration of what I'm talking about.

The same basic effect is interfering with all frost mage dps on a daily basis.

The core of the problem is that damage effects dependent on damage effects
are always going to produce weird biases and godlike strategies. You can't
fix it without changing it beyond recognition.

[Deleted]

Of course you can.

Even if you're doing it without zone changing and clearing icicles, it could be capped at a % modifier of spellpower, health, Frostbolt base damage or what-the-fuck-ever.

Making iciciles not do 40 million damage is entirely possible without 'changing it beyond recognition'. Blizz have seen this (and fixed it) before, they'll see this (and fix it) again.

[Deleted]

Of course you can.

Even if you're doing it without zone changing and clearing icicles, it could be capped at a % modifier of spellpower, health, Frostbolt base damage or what-the-fuck-ever.

Making iciciles not do 40 million damage is entirely possible without 'changing it beyond recognition'. Blizz have seen this (and fixed it) before, they'll see this (and fix it) again.

That's what many call "changing it beyond recognition". But it is a lazy fix that doesn't work.

Your solution would actually do nothing to deal with the SOO problem I mentioned, which is also present in many other instances.

Also, If you chop off the outliers of a distribution then you effectively nerf most frost mages, who are already jumping ship at an exponential rate.
Those who understand the mechanic might not be able to solo raid bosses, but they can still work it to the extent they'd be top dps
in every raid.
Did you not think there are ways to get temporary spellpower, health etc spikes?

In the end you'd have a class which was both simultaneously nerfed and overpowered, the worst combination possible.

[Frost1129]

Can you explain what is actually happening?

and post a WCL/WoL of you doing it?