1. #1

    How do you keep people alive as Holy PvP?

    I mean 20k to 25k Flash of Lights (with Mortal strike on you)??? Is this a joke? And that crap cost 37,8% of your base mana?? Holy Shock must be even lower then: 18k non crit? Do you have any heal which can reach 50k in PvP with Mortal strike on? WoG, maybe? I know that 30 or 40% (depends on how much mastery do you have) of amount healed are added as protective shields but does that help you to keep people and yourself alive?
    I'm a bit confused beccouse on my Resto Shaman I see much bigger numbers. Resto Druids Rejuvenation ticks for 11k +, Regrowth heals for twice as much as FoL and costs less mana.
    Can someone enlighten me and explain it to me, what benefits do I get, if i choose Holy Paladin over other healers for PvP? I alredy have resto shaman off spec/ele main spec. Now I would like to start leveling with my lvl 40 Ret Paladin with Holy offspec mainly for PvP, but when i see those low numbers I'm wondering, is it worth it? Would holy be a decent choise for PvP: mostly for BGs, RBGs?
    sry for eng and my noobishnes:P

  2. #2
    The Lightbringer Mister K's Avatar
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    This isn't WotLK, you can't use FoL, its an emergency heal. You want to mostly use Divine Light with Holy Shock procs. Build up to 3 holy power and use Eternal Flame if you have specced into it (which I personally recommend). You shouldn't run into major issues healing, just don't get locked out and LoS, don't rambo in, keep at distance.

    Yes Holy is very viable, specially in Arena compared to the other two specs. However for BGs, any spec will do.

    I gem/chant into int/mastery and reforge haste into mastery since most of the times I am able to get off fast heals with Holy Shock procs + instants. I also use Holy Prism.

    I am still in WotLK mode healing, just came back.
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  3. #3
    No idea if this is still how holy does pvp but it used to be:

    Stack crit
    Holy shock critical
    Cast really fast divine light
    Many hps were had

    You shouldn't be using FoL as your base heal.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Imperviable View Post
    No idea if this is still how holy does pvp but it used to be:

    Stack crit
    Holy shock critical
    Cast really fast divine light
    Many hps were had
    You shouldn't be using FoL as your base heal.
    And how do you plan to build 3 hp for a WoG, eh? By giving out 3 shocks or may be cast FoL for 2 hp beaconed?
    Thinking of trying SS at 3s atm, cause sacrifice damage hurts a lot.
    Can anyone tell me what is its absorb after battle fatigue being full grievous and how is SS absorb effect calculated - from current SP or from SP at the moment of application for 30 sec duration?
    Thanks

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Evida View Post
    And how do you plan to build 3 hp for a WoG, eh? By giving out 3 shocks or may be cast FoL for 2 hp beaconed?
    Thinking of trying SS at 3s atm, cause sacrifice damage hurts a lot.
    Can anyone tell me what is its absorb after battle fatigue being full grievous and how is SS absorb effect calculated - from current SP or from SP at the moment of application for 30 sec duration?
    Thanks
    It is my understanding of the ability that SS functions like a HoT with its "tick" being the absorb. Since HoTs do not dynamically update each tick( at least, I can't think of one that does), all that should matter is your stats at the time of application.

  6. #6
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Paladins are probably one of the worst healers for PvP situations right now but mainly due to weakness against CC and over-relying on casting as far as I know. That said most classes will have poor healing due to battle fatigue now. Basically your priority is:

    Shock > Proc Divine Light > Flash of Light, all with Word of Glory as needed based on how much HP you have.

    And yes, FoL on Beacon gives 2 HP so you can get a pretty sizable WoG with it.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vyndir View Post
    It is my understanding of the ability that SS functions like a HoT with its "tick" being the absorb. Since HoTs do not dynamically update each tick( at least, I can't think of one that does), all that should matter is your stats at the time of application.
    Ok, yes, SS absorb depends on SP at the cast time, means the best SS absorbs are out if double trinket is up (I'm human), Battle Fatigue srsly nerfs it, 23 k SP (501 iL) = about 19 k absorbs without procs on a battleground. On one hand it makes it easier n faster to pre-shield all 3 memebrs on arena with SS, on the other hand EF can crit and heals more the paladin herself + EF doesnt demand additional globals (and keybinds:P)...

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by voidspark View Post
    Paladins are probably one of the worst healers for PvP situations right now but mainly due to weakness against CC and over-relying on casting as far as I know. That said most classes will have poor healing due to battle fatigue now. Basically your priority is:

    Shock > Proc Divine Light > Flash of Light, all with Word of Glory as needed based on how much HP you have.

    And yes, FoL on Beacon gives 2 HP so you can get a pretty sizable WoG with it.
    I agree with everything else besides the part I have bolded.. Ihmo, Holy Paladins are one if not the best Arena healers in this game. They very rarely go oom, they can get out of a lot of situations (Clemency is your absolute best friend here) Combined with speed of light, HPalas are just.. Trucks. If things get bad, bubble. Heal back to full, it's really a fun class/spec to play in Arena. c:
    (>^-^)>

  9. #9
    Bloodsail Admiral Avada Kedavra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by voidspark View Post
    Paladins are probably one of the worst healers for PvP situations right now but mainly due to weakness against CC and over-relying on casting as far as I know. That said most classes will have poor healing due to battle fatigue now. Basically your priority is:

    Shock > Proc Divine Light > Flash of Light, all with Word of Glory as needed based on how much HP you have.

    And yes, FoL on Beacon gives 2 HP so you can get a pretty sizable WoG with it.
    I think you have Hpaly confused with MW monk. Hpaly have WAYYYYYY more slips than monks do. Those that say holy palys are worst atm either havent played holy paladin in PvP or they havent played a MW monk.
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  10. #10
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laqweeta View Post
    I agree with everything else besides the part I have bolded.. Ihmo, Holy Paladins are one if not the best Arena healers in this game. They very rarely go oom, they can get out of a lot of situations (Clemency is your absolute best friend here) Combined with speed of light, HPalas are just.. Trucks. If things get bad, bubble. Heal back to full, it's really a fun class/spec to play in Arena. c:
    Not really, for instance priests (which are actually the best arena healers atm) pretty much hard counter. All Clemency Hands can be purged, and bubble is usually instantly dispelled. Not disputing MW isn't great either though.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by voidspark View Post
    Not really, for instance priests (which are actually the best arena healers atm) pretty much hard counter. All Clemency Hands can be purged, and bubble is usually instantly dispelled. Not disputing MW isn't great either though.
    In an average setting, priests won't do this perfectly but, at the highest level of play yeahhhh. I don't PvP much, just follow talks/streams and it seems to be that priests are antipaladin.

  12. #12
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Regen View Post
    In an average setting, priests won't do this perfectly but, at the highest level of play yeahhhh. I don't PvP much, just follow talks/streams and it seems to be that priests are antipaladin.
    Because spamming Fear and Dispel and Mass Dispel takes sooooooooo much skill.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by voidspark View Post
    Because spamming Fear and Dispel and Mass Dispel takes sooooooooo much skill.
    Youd be surprised

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Regen View Post
    In an average setting, priests won't do this perfectly but, at the highest level of play yeahhhh. I don't PvP much, just follow talks/streams and it seems to be that priests are antipaladin.
    Priests aren't the only one paladins have to worry about. Yea they and warriors may be the only one to get bubble, but the hands can be purged off by any purge(hunters, dks, shaman, etc). Paladins are really hurt by purges. Holy paladins really only do ok in arena while playing high pressure comps designed to get kills really fast(which other healers can be swapped in pretty easily), usually if it goes past the point where the paladin has to bubble the game will likely be a loss.

    And not in the average setting? Yea paladins are good against teams that have no clue what they are doing. Not really an achievement because the same can be said for any class.
    Last edited by Freia; 2013-12-09 at 12:29 PM.

  15. #15
    Just wanted to jump in if I may, and ask some questions myself.

    Been playing Holy for ages, but in BGs my healing throughput (after having stacked Int and Crit) just doesn't get anywhere near covering the damage from (e.g.) a Hunter and Rogue on one target. Damage is relentless, and it feels like everyone has an execute, a hard-hitting proc, two stuns, even more CC, and plenty of ways to fight without drawbacks.

    I feel forced into taking Holy Prism because it's a precious instant. Eternal Flame is ace and I like it, but I can't help think that Selfless Healer would be better. If only Judgement had an Atonement-esque 'thing' to it when talented. It seems a little odd to be Judging SO often... even with @mouseover it feels laborious. So I'm running with:

    Speed of Light for meaningful movement. Turn Evil for healer control and pressure relief. Eternal Flame for Beacon Top-Up and a decent HoT. Clemency for double sac (glyphed) and 2 Freedoms. Divine Purpose for fun, life-saving procs. And Finally Prism for an Instant because I can't afford my preferred Light's Hammer because people just don't hang around in it... or it encourages Beam/Vortex/RoFrost.

    Even with Glyphed Devo Aura up, I'm still susceptible to Stun, Incap, Knock-back, Negative-Movement (Grip, Typhoon, D.Roar) and it doesn't feel like a period of grace.. it just feels like I can MABYE get a cast of if the Rogue or Warrior is too stupid to kick. But even on the second cast they get the picture and start charging, KSing, Gouging, or Stormbolting.

    What I don't understand is how Blizzard can give Priests such beneficial glyphs allowing them to move whilst casting Penance on top of all the other mobilty heals they have like PoM, Renew, that dual-heal one, as well as PW:S, and T90 (DS, HALO, Casc) which are all instant. We have Holy Shock.. and are forced into a second with Prism. I don't want to be a Priest, but that level of mobility just puts everyone else on the back foot. In addition, talents that let them ignore the fundamental rules of how PW:S works (like Divine Insight) just mean that the limitations of the ability are completely ignored and thrown out the window. It USED TO BE a 40% chance, but now casting Penance on ANYONE means that the PW:S ignores Weakened Soul on that person OR SOMEONE ELSE.

    I've strayed off course.

    Paladins.

    I feel okay... but movement is one area where I think we've been left behind. I don't have the tools to keep up with Displacer, Feathers, Body and Soul, Guise-Misdirection, and Monk mobility. I understand that I am a 'pillar' and that I throw out heals, but It feels that the game is going too fast for me. I put so much effort into getting away from 'that' rogue. I juke a kick, survive a gouge, avoid the first restealth with a Truth-Judgement, HoJ (Trinketed) into Fear but my reward for that is that the Rogue gets a re-stealth and I'm 'rewarded' with another Subterfuging Rogue - whom I cannot target for three seconds, am silenced for the next 4, stunned for the 4 after that, proc-stunned for the 4 after that, and then Blinded with Dirty Tricks to sit there bleeding, poisoned, and helpless while my HoP and Trinket are on CD.. I don't have time to 'Cleanse' paralytic because the incoming damage is too high.

    I understand that things are had to balance... but whereas Rogues used to trade damage for control, stuff like Killing Spree, Shadow Blades, CD-stacking, and procs all add-up to allow them both at the same time. And if you're so unfortunate as to have a caster start pinging you from 40-yards at the same time, then it's game over. I don't feel that relying on Bubble (which is susceptible to Silence, AND ON the GCD) should balance our second-to-second viability.

    I accept that there are some pros who might make pillar-hugging Paladining 'good enough' in Arena, so the devs can sleep easy knowing that 'TECHINCALLY' Holy Paladins are ''fine'', but I dont' feel like that in BGs. I feel pigeon-holed with talents, I feel vulnerable and claustrophobic even with DP and DevoAura up, I'm afraid to cast because now even Hunters have been given a 40-yard kick. Pets can't be controlled because Blink Strike makes their uptime 100%. It's all just gone crazy.

    Damage, CC, Interrupts, Knock-backs, are all too high for the pace of the game.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Jez7 View Post
    These things.
    Are why I don't heal in PvP anymore.

    I used to. I used to enjoy it. At this point though I'd rather be fricken awful as a pvp ret than heal pvp.
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  17. #17
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    rdy to deal with a lot of said above...
    but dispels vulnerability (especially for HoS) and 45 sec cd torpedo mobility with no actual mobility choices among the tier in 3s situation....
    well, apply (glyph, talent, anything) dispel immunity to HoS, HoF and HoP and hpaladins will get balanced for 3s...
    reduce this 45 sec cd to 30 one with like 5 sec speed buff, I anyway don't need 7 seconds of this anyway...
    Might. Permanent mastery and spell damage buff for shamans. why bother play with hpala at all?

  18. #18
    I would just like to see higher healing numbers in PvP. Now dmg > healing. My heals never crit for 100k + like some dmg spells can do it (my highest crit in PvP was something around 80 k on my Resto Shaman): Pyroblast, CB, LS ...

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