Originally Posted by Bashiok
... if you can't read a 6 digit number in an instant; it isn't the number that is the problem. There are addons that can shorten that for you to '300k' and later '3m' so your brain can process a smaller base number. It isn't uncommon; since scientific notation exists for that very reason. 3*10^5 (300,000) is fine with me as well, but I bet some wouldn't like that because maths.I mean, my Obliterate crits for like 300.000 damage, I hardly have time to read the whole number in the time it shows.
There is no lag from the numbers; there is lag however, from your addons.
Not to mention, lag experienced by player X does not affect all the players around them.
What has happened in the past though, was an addon a group of raiders had, lagged out players/the raid from communication issues; but that wasn't server lag either, that was client lag related to the addon.
The only time you come into server lag is through overloading; and that isn't from the numbers themselves, but the quantity of more memory intensive groupings; massive amounts of players. Ex: when some slick people would crash a server by intentionally leading extremely large raids on a capital (100+); a later example of this is world boss server crashes from people hopping server instances to zerg them. Now; I feel this is an issue that needs to be addressed. In a game bragging about (and virtually merging for) large communities and player interaction goals; you cannot have an infrastructure that is so weak that a couple hundred can lag/crash the server (Dalaran ... hence why Crystalsong Forest went unused and Argent Tournament was moved to northern Icecrown instead). That is a serious issue and I have no idea how it should be fixed because I'm not a computer hardware/software engineer.
But trust in this; if you have a 1000 players in a condensed area; it isn't omg 1m crit! that lagged it and crashed it, it was the quantity of people (because people were crashing servers with less even back in wrath with 5-10k numbers). Coincidence does not mean correlation.
I've played a lot of MMOs. The numbers mean little outside of evaluating yourself, or building yourself up. Whether I did 200k in WoW or I do 50 elsewhere; it is speed of kill, mechanics of fight, and execution that matter in the game. In general though; once I reach certain plateaus in a particular game, I prefer not to degrade.
You will see this sentiment every xpac. It was actually quite prevalent in Cata. End of Wrath you might have been doing 20-30k. As you leveled up, your gear worsened because of stat value changes. You'd end up slowly doing less and less damage as you approached 85. Your 60k burst at end of wrath ended up being 20k, and your sustained 30k ended up being 15k ... until you could start gearing up. In fact, the numbers didn't go up that much by Dragon Soul; now, by the time everyone was fully geared, especially heroic raiders and legendary holders, they could do some sick shit; but average players were only slightly to moderately more powerful than they were in full ICC gear progressing through DS (normal).
I'm not currently playing, but what were people doing at the end of DS? Between 1-200k dps? What are people doing now? 2-3x that? About right comparatively in scaling. That would mean between 1-2 million at the end of next xpac; but so what? Just turn the damn numbers off.
Here is why. An item squish is pointless unless it comes with a level squish. The same inflation you worry about with raw damage/healing numbers is the same issue new players are going to have with leveling to 100+. These two things would be best to be done together. The level squish needs to not be conservative; vanilla 1-30 at the HIGHEST. 5 levels per xpac. Squish the ilvl at this time, and squish it to the ground.
Have ilvl progress at chlvl pace until the most current xpac, where you give room for progression, but make it as linear as you still can (impossible, but don't have the gaps as huge as they are today). So; MoP gear would be scaled down to ilvl 50. First tier new xpac would be ilvl 55. Then, have a 1 ilvl difference between the various difficulties, so LFR 52, Flex 53, N 54, H 55; next tier LFR 54, Flex 55, N 56, H 57, 3rd (last?) tier LFR 56, Flex 57, N 58, H 59. This sets up for the next xpac allowing heroic raiders to still get better gear at the end of 1st tier without pushing ilvl out of sync with character level.
This does break one of their agendas though. They have always made greens in new xpac starting areas extreme upgrades, rendering your raid gear useless (which I don't like). I understand though. They have to tune the content. They need to be able to assume an appropriate gear level to tune for. They can't tune the starting zone for N/H ilvl, because some will be coming through in questing gear which is immensely underpowered. So they set up rewards that eliminate everyone's gear, and the next zone can be tuned assuming everyone is on a 'level' playing field. BUT, that only adds to the inflation.
If they squished how I proposed, they'd have a reasonable idea of how to tune the content because the gear progression is linear. The upgrade path is clear. There is less emphasis on 'farming' dungeons and scenarios outside of choice to do so, or to catch up a slot or two, for a stat priority change, interesting proc on a trinket, or for transmog/gold/currency.
You would feel like the awesome last tier gear you earned had some value. You wouldn't be replacing it until you progressed on the new tier. You'd still be able to use quest rewards, etc for transmog or maybe a trinket was interesting enough to try out. But gear progression is mostly linear, so questing is purely for story and advancing your character's level. The overall gear progression remains the same. You farm your raids for the length of the patch to try and replace all of your gear. Just like in vanilla, you are wanting that extra 5 dps from this piece or combination of pieces. It is about getting BiS, to be the best your can in not only execution but potential output as well.
... at least if you are going to ask for an ilvl squish, put some thought and effort into your argument past 'I dun liek big numbers'
Confirmed item squish.
Cant place links and images, lol See Wow joystiqItem squish is in effect too! Our tank had around 45k health. I had around 32k health. My Prayer of Healing was landing between 3k to 5k. My Flash Heal was around 2.5k and Greater Heal was about 4k and up. Our item levels still showed up in the 520+ range so my guess is that a hidden debuff of some sort was applied to drastically drop and reconfigure all of our stats down. My red gems showed 8 intellect. I guess this is the solution to the great ilevel bloat!
Biggest problem with item squish is that even though they will lower older content levels, its still going to mess with old content soloing. It cant be avoided.
The mega-damage solution doesn't mess with anything because it's not a squish. It's a display change.
Mega-damage means things like displaying
3k instead of 3000
5M instead of 5000000
2T instead of 2000000000
Not dividing everything by a fixed value. Mega damage is already in the game and can be done through add-ons as well.
Last edited by huth; 2013-11-09 at 09:57 AM.
Dont want to look stupid, maybe someone mentioned it here already but arent We going back in numbers because of integer limit ? What if the client may not handle it anymore, I know they broke it up with the gold limit but ...
And also, it would be really awful to have 154168516516 hp and get damaged for 15416851600 or something similar and now the healer will have to (?calculate?) or choose the right spell to heal you, etc. I am glad we are going back in numbers. Saw screen of 90 or 91 lvl DK from Blizzcon who had ~50K hp.
EDIT: Remember, they are doing it for us. We demand them to make it easier ... well, not maybe everyone but in the current 7.6mil sub, there are maybe like 5 mil. casual players, maybe more. I would like to see smaller numbers and more difficult content as it was in the beginning of Cata or Mop or Wotlk or BC or Vanilla.
Last edited by Nifelvind; 2013-11-09 at 10:16 AM.
If it's not an elf, leave it on the shelf.
I agree the numbers now do look abit silly.
And on the point of numbers, I am surprised this level cap has shot to 100 already and they have said there will be more expansions. I always predicted that level 100 would be the end, because just in opinion anything above level 100 would also look silly. I mean level 100 sounds high end, then you hear level 105... It just doesnt sound right IMO
And damage / health / stat numbers are important all the time
I have enough of EA ruining great franchises and studios, forcing DRM and Origin on their games, releasing incomplete games only to sell day-1 DLCs or spill dozens of DLCs, and then saying it, and microtransactions, is what players want, stopping players from giving EA games poor reviews, as well as deflecting complaints with cheap PR tricks.
I'm not going to buy any game by EA as long as they continue those practices.
I'd rather they take the time to rework the engine, like they said as it was an option - Then, adjust scaling so this doesn't happen in the future. The jump from Vanilla -> BC -> Wrath was near perfection then BOOM they fuck it up and increase everything 5 fold. Should have been a gradual increase. We shouldn't have been hitting 1m hp for at least another 3-4 expansions down the line. By that time in which a new, renovated engine would have been built.
0.05 is no more simple or complex than 100, so your argument makes no sense.
It'll be funny to see what the Vanilla gems will have when they do do the squish. 0.5 int waaa so gud.
When you look at this, its like those WoW private servers / funservers in numbers and levels. Also, there is a crash within the client if you have Druid above 100.
And TBH, yes. I have seen healers in LFD while leveling who were canceling the cast because their calculating was bad and they would "overheal". Sure, its like 1 of 100.
Last edited by Nifelvind; 2013-11-09 at 12:47 PM.