1. #1

    Changes to Modern Azeroth as a Result

    I haven't seen a thread yet that discusses what the effects of this altered timeline will be on the history of azeroth as we know it. Here's a few examples, and feel free to add any others.
    -No Lich king. If Ner'zhul never gets overthrown by gul'dan, he never gets tortured by kil'jaeden, and therefor never becomes the lich king. So None of the Lich king Story line (including an entire expansion) ever happened.
    -Stormwind was never destroyed, and therefore looks completely different than it does currently since it never had to be rebuilt.
    -Ever single piece of WoW lore involving orcs on azeroth never happened.
    -The Alliance doesnt exist. The only reason the alliance formed was out of the need to defend themselves against the orcs plowing through the eastern kingdom. Without the threat of annihilation, only the bickering kingdoms of lordaeron would still remain.
    -The entire forsaken race doesn't exist. With no Lich king story line, there are no undead.
    -Blood elves still live happily in Quel'Thalas, never joinging the alliance or the Horde.
    -Tauren would be either enslaved or extinct. They were in bad shape when Thrall found Cairne in WC3, and without the orcs help, they would have been overrun by the centaur.
    -None of the sha would have ever been uncovered in MoP as the war would never have come to the shores of Pandaria. Therefore the whole continent would still be haunted.
    -There would be no paladins. The Silverhand was only formed in an attempt to counter the deathknights of the horde. Again, if there's no neccessity, nothing is ever done
    -Blackrock Spire never existed and therefore the black dragons would be relocated elsewhere and Leeroy Jenkins would have never had chicken.

    Basically, all of Warcraft lore as we know it no longer exists. I'm just looking for specific examples such as the ones listed above.

  2. #2
    As stated in the initial panel, this is the stuff that we're fighting to avoid. Garrosh is in a separate timeline and is working to align that alternate time line with the current so he can smash us for beatin' him down.

  3. #3
    No, I was worried about this at first too, but this is not how it's going to work.

    Garrosh is attempting to bring the old Draenor into OUR CURRENT timeline, for whatever reason it may be (to create the Iron Horde and be the true Horde and whatnot, or for redemption, whatever it is)

    Basically, it's a new timeline/version of Draenor being brought into our timeline. Therefore, we aren't necessarily "travelling back in time" but more, crossing over into the new version of old Draenor

  4. #4
    I don't see how erasing the entire orc history and replacing it with a new one is justifiable and won't still have the ripple effects. Or am I just not understanding what you're saying?? :/

  5. #5
    The Patient Aegithedas's Avatar
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    But if our players LK and everything else is still the same as it was before the x-pac, after it drops, that means that we must have altered the timeline back to a point where everything we now do in the past still leads us to where we are now. Time travel mind blow
    "I intend to live forever."

  6. #6
    Pandaren Monk Myz's Avatar
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    We'll change numerous things while at the same time changing nothing that could alter how current events have played out. Yet that in itself is impossible, as having thousands of heroes flood your continent in itself has an unavoidable impact.

    They'll have to bring some lame plothole no jutsu to the table for this one. I'm going with parallel universes nonsense. We come from Azeroth X and we'll travel back to Draenor Y instead of our own Draenor X. We'll alter the future of Azeroth Y but Azeroth X will not be affected by it. Something with the Bronze Dragonflight making an error in their calculations that sent us to our past in a parallel universe. Because of that, our Azeroth Y versions will also travel back, but they will not make that error so they'll travel back to Draenor Y, which will allow us to encounter our parallel selfs, which will be of the opposite faction. The final raid will be how we'll fight our parallel identities and end up killing ourselves. Then it will turn out that the person we killed was actually our grandfather, which will solve the Grandfather Paradox and bring about world peace irl.
    Last edited by Myz; 2013-11-08 at 09:22 PM.

  7. #7
    Could we possibly change Theramores fate? Maybe the Cataclysm?

    We cannot prevent what we cannot predict ~

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Thoraevin View Post
    I don't see how erasing the entire orc history and replacing it with a new one is justifiable and won't still have the ripple effects. Or am I just not understanding what you're saying?? :/
    We aren't erasing orc history. A NEW VERSION of Draenor is being created through Garrosh's actions. This new Draenor has NOTHING to do with the old WC/WC2 Draenor of the current timeline. It is going to exist whole again in our current timeline

  9. #9
    Stood in the Fire Zenko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcangel14 View Post
    No, I was worried about this at first too, but this is not how it's going to work.

    Garrosh is attempting to bring the old Draenor into OUR CURRENT timeline, for whatever reason it may be (to create the Iron Horde and be the true Horde and whatnot, or for redemption, whatever it is)

    Basically, it's a new timeline/version of Draenor being brought into our timeline. Therefore, we aren't necessarily "travelling back in time" but more, crossing over into the new version of old Draenor
    So you're saying there will be a 'time bubble' around the planet of Draenor and be brought outside of time? This makes even less sense.

    Im not trying to attack you, just bringing up the point that this scenario makes no sense unless some crazy new magic/lore is introduced alongside it.

  10. #10
    when people will learn that time paradoxs will just make universe crazy

  11. #11
    Brewmaster Travio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zenko View Post
    So you're saying there will be a 'time bubble' around the planet of Draenor and be brought outside of time? This makes even less sense.

    Im not trying to attack you, just bringing up the point that this scenario makes no sense unless some crazy new magic/lore is introduced alongside it.
    Could probably be easily explained by who this new apparently multi-expansion villain is. IS GARROSH WORKING WITH THE LEGION NOW?
    Looking for Raid: you will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. Come - we must be cautious.

  12. #12
    The gnomes would be absolutely badass. Seriously. The trogg infestation happened right around the time of the Second War. The Dwarves etc. were all busy fighting the orcs, so the gnomes never let their allies knew how bad the gnomes had it. Without the orcs, the dwarves are able to help their allies beat back the troggs, leading to years of gnomish awesomeness instead of gnomish exile.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Travio View Post
    Could probably be easily explained by who this new apparently multi-expansion villain is. IS GARROSH WORKING WITH THE LEGION NOW?
    Story
    Garrosh will be put on trial and escape before a verdict. He is going back in time, altering the current timeline slightly.
    Garrosh's goal is to stop the Orcs from drinking the blood of Mannoroth and building the Iron Horde using technology from the present.
    The end of this expansion is going to spill over into the next one. Many more expansions are lined up now.

  14. #14
    Dreadlord Cadfuert's Avatar
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    Won't this make the lore of this expansion pointless then? So we beat stop this new Draenor from entering our timeline. Then what? w just leave go back to our timeline and carry on with no real advancement in our timeline? surely the only thing that would be brought forward from this expansion is that some character's would have die in that Draenor and not come back with us to Azeroth.

  15. #15
    Thanks GangrapeOrama, this is exactly the kinda stuff I was looking for in this thread.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Zenko View Post
    So you're saying there will be a 'time bubble' around the planet of Draenor and be brought outside of time? This makes even less sense.

    Im not trying to attack you, just bringing up the point that this scenario makes no sense unless some crazy new magic/lore is introduced alongside it.
    It's a not-uncommon feature in time travel. A person goes back to a point in time (a). Usually, at that point in time, (a) leads to time (b) which leads to time (c)...etc. all the way to the present. That person makes an alteration at time (a). Now there's another, separate timeline in which (a) leads to time (b1) which leads to time (c1)...etc. The two are operating independently and forking off from one another and generally don't intersect. Alternate timelines are the staple of things like Star Trek.

    So what Garrosh is trying to do is make it so that the (c1) timeline overlaps with the (c) timeline.

  17. #17
    Brewmaster Travio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anstriber View Post
    Story
    Garrosh will be put on trial and escape before a verdict. He is going back in time, altering the current timeline slightly.
    Garrosh's goal is to stop the Orcs from drinking the blood of Mannoroth and building the Iron Horde using technology from the present.
    The end of this expansion is going to spill over into the next one. Many more expansions are lined up now.
    Yeah, but the Legion already knows how that path lays out - that Horde gets destroyed because it's too bloodthirsty and starts to destroy itself from within. The Horde they control with the demon blood gets demolished and becomes the present Horde we know. Time to think of a new attack vector - maybe a Horde that isn't so mindless in its depravity?
    Looking for Raid: you will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. Come - we must be cautious.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Cadfuert View Post
    Won't this make the lore of this expansion pointless then? So we beat stop this new Draenor from entering our timeline. Then what? w just leave go back to our timeline and carry on with no real advancement in our timeline? surely the only thing that would be brought forward from this expansion is that some character's would have die in that Draenor and not come back with us to Azeroth.
    Not necessarily. As we're going back in time, the world which we came from will continue to go forward. That means that while we're off fighting in this other timeline, stuff will be happening in our world too. Think: rebuilding of Theramore, Vol'jin cleaning up the Horde, etc. Done right, there will be lots of quests out in past-time Draenor but some chunk of new quests in Azeroth as well.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Zenko View Post
    So you're saying there will be a 'time bubble' around the planet of Draenor and be brought outside of time? This makes even less sense.

    Im not trying to attack you, just bringing up the point that this scenario makes no sense unless some crazy new magic/lore is introduced alongside it.
    No no, I understand.

    That's just how I understand it (or WANT to understand it ). Obviously just straight up going back in time to old Draenor would totally screw things over for where we are now. BUT, as most people probably think, multiple timelines CAN exist. So if Garrosh was going back to Draenor and preventing the drinking of demon blood, he would essentially create a whole new timeline (think of Star Trek remake). This timeline would exist separate from our current timeline. If whoever is helping Garrosh (clearly someone with Bronze dragonflight like powers) was somehow able to then take that new version/timeline of Draenor and join it with our current one, it would eliminate the "but what happens to LK/Illidan/DW/etc" questions, as, technically, this Draenor is a totally different version and from a different timeline of the old Draenor and story we know of.

    Anyways, that's just how I'm interpreting it for now, guess we'll have to see confirmation from Blizz

  20. #20
    Dreadlord Cadfuert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GangRapeORama View Post
    Not necessarily. As we're going back in time, the world which we came from will continue to go forward. That means that while we're off fighting in this other timeline, stuff will be happening in our world too. Think: rebuilding of Theramore, Vol'jin cleaning up the Horde, etc. Done right, there will be lots of quests out in past-time Draenor but some chunk of new quests in Azeroth as well.
    Hmm never thought of it like that, returning to azeroth after however many years in the lore would be be an interesting way to advance the timeline of aeroth without expansions might be a good thing.

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