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  1. #641
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by ColbaneX View Post
    I don't think you understand what "ad hominem" means. If you did, you would know that my post did not in fact contain such an argument, but here is one for you. If you act completely irrational like this at a much needed change that has almost NO EFFECT ON YOU I'm guessing you are the worst raider in your guild.
    Its not much needed but totally superfluous and destructive, and it directly affects me in my 10hc raiding guild. Here is another nice word, to describe your last sentence: its a classic non sequitur.

  2. #642
    Quote Originally Posted by FordStallion View Post
    Who said I'm leaving? I'm venting my frustration over a move by Blizzard that will destroy, flat out destroy everything we build as a guild over the last years. Who the fuck knows what will happen. And I know that many of you 25hc raiders think "deal with it", but just take a good look around in the forums.

    It will be the death of every 10man guild with even the slightest hc aspirations. If you really think that this move, after years and years of 10man raiding, will be good for the game, then I really don't know what to say anymore.
    Sounds like what people said when they moved from 40/20 to 25/10. *If we fail to learn from history, it is doomed to repeat itself*
    Quote Originally Posted by FordStallion View Post
    Its not much needed but totally superfluous and destructive, and it directly affects me in my 10hc raiding guild. Here is another nice word, to describe your last sentence: its a classic non sequitur.
    Congratulations you passed High School/College English and know the logical fallacies. Pro tip, stop begging the question.

  3. #643
    Quote Originally Posted by FordStallion View Post
    Who said I'm leaving? I'm venting my frustration over a move by Blizzard that will destroy, flat out destroy everything we build as a guild over the last years. Who the fuck knows what will happen. And I know that many of you 25hc raiders think "deal with it", but just take a good look around in the forums.

    It will be the death of every 10man guild with even the slightest hc aspirations. If you really think that this move, after years and years of 10man raiding, will be good for the game, then I really don't know what to say anymore.
    What I think doesn't matter, what blizzard repeatedly said is that this was needed to deliver higher quality content. Not being able to use mechanics BECAUSE of ten man creates a logistical nightmare. You are right on one aspect though, it will be the death of every ten man guild if you want to raid Mythic.

    You also do realize how small of margin of 10 man players are even posting on forums right ? Of the 4K perhaps .0001% ? Your attempting to speak for the masses when the masses won't speak for themselves, or just don't care.

  4. #644
    I don't like this at all. If you are on a server like mal'ganis and Illidan, you are fine. But what if you are on a low populated server? Would be hell recruiting since you can't cross-realm mythic. I've also met quite many skilled players in heroic mode pugs who still use wooden computers (computers that cannot handle 20+ people at medium graphics), I would hate for them to get screwed over. Most of them say they would like new upgrades etc but they apparently are on a tight budget.

    If it were 15 man mythic and 20 man mythic, and cross-realm-able, than 20 man mythic far later on, it would be an easier transition, that way those in smaller servers can adjust.

  5. #645
    Quote Originally Posted by Alasuya View Post
    I don't like this at all. If you are on a server like mal'ganis and Illidan, you are fine. But what if you are on a low populated server? Would be hell recruiting since you can't cross-realm mythic. I've also met quite many skilled players in heroic mode pugs who still use wooden computers (computers that cannot handle 20+ people at medium graphics), I would hate for them to get screwed over. Most of them say they would like new upgrades etc but they apparently are on a tight budget.

    If it were 15 man mythic and 20 man mythic, and cross-realm-able, than 20 man mythic far later on, it would be an easier transition, that way those in smaller servers can adjust.
    WHy do you think they are doing connected servers?

  6. #646
    Quote Originally Posted by FordStallion View Post
    Who said I'm leaving? I'm venting my frustration over a move by Blizzard that will destroy, flat out destroy everything we build as a guild over the last years. Who the fuck knows what will happen. And I know that many of you 25hc raiders think "deal with it", but just take a good look around in the forums.
    What goes around, comes around ? Or something.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alasuya View Post
    I've also met quite many skilled players in heroic mode pugs who still use wooden computers (computers that cannot handle 20+ people at medium graphics), I would hate for them to get screwed over. Most of them say they would like new upgrades etc but they apparently are on a tight budget.
    Well to be fair I'd guess that these people would likely be better of to put their priorities towards something different than wow anyways.

  7. #647
    Quote Originally Posted by cFortyfive View Post
    What goes around, comes around ? Or something.

    Well to be fair I'd guess that these people would likely be better of to put their priorities towards something different than wow anyways.
    Just because they have to decide between massive upgrade or game time doesn't necessarily mean they have their priorities in the wrong places. They still play this game for their friends, assume IRL responsibilities, people have a budget, especially if you are poor.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by ColbaneX View Post
    WHy do you think they are doing connected servers?
    Depending on how massive the collection of connected servers become, if it becomes something close to zul'jin there shouldn't be too much of an issue to find people up to par with the standards put forth.

  8. #648
    at least we getting rid of the 10 vs 25 discussions when it comes to world first progression.
    BETA CLUB

  9. #649
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by ColbaneX View Post
    By the sounds of your post, I think you either A. Didn't get recruited to a 25H guild and are pouting. B. Lack basic comprehension of the game C. Trolling, or D. Have never watched Blood Legion or Method raid.
    I've been in a 25H guild and I've watched blood legion and method raiding, just like I saw the dps on blood legion world first protectors's video attacking the wrong target for 1 minute.

  10. #650
    IMO this wont be bad for 25 mans but will kill 10 mans. I can see 25m assimilating the good people in 10 man guilds and dropping their bads since mergers don't work out too well. No one in their right mind will want to join a 10m looking to go 20m since most 10s dont have experience with larger raid sizes.

  11. #651
    Well my friends, this may be one of the last few 10 vs 25 man whine post.

    BETTER LET IT ALL OUT, the pent-up ANGER, the RAGE, the INJUSTICE you have been forced to subject to over all these years. To be BELITTLED and looked down upon, the HUMILITY, the AGONY, the SUBJUGATION and the OPPRESSION...UNLEASH IT huhuhuhuhuhuhahaahhaahMWAWAWAHHHAHAHAA *goes off rabbling and ranting like a mad man*

    Well not really. The problem with H10 guild is when it starts being exclusive to friends and families, which is good and I support it in concept, but it's bad for the overall health of the game. You get to 10, you stop hiring, your guild becomes exclusive which is awesome for you, but returning players are stuffed. They can't find guilds or don't want to, they go to LFR. If you look around H25 guilds, they normally don't have just core raiders, they have backups, social structures, internal groups (which can cause dramas I know), this is part of the guild experience WoW has been lacking.

    M20 is not just about difficulty, it's social engineering for the better long term good of the game, to bring guilds back, to bring structures back, to bring dramas back (For the better or worse lol). It's taking players out of their tiny 10 man never recruiting comfort zones, I'll have to make a lot of adjustments myself, but I personally think it's will make the overall atmosphere, if not better, closer to WOTLK.

  12. #652
    Quote Originally Posted by Sacrelis View Post
    Well my friends, this may be one of the last few 10 vs 25 man whine post.

    BETTER LET IT ALL OUT, the pent-up ANGER, the RAGE, the INJUSTICE you have been forced to subject to over all these years. To be BELITTLED and looked down upon, the HUMILITY, the AGONY, the SUBJUGATION and the OPPRESSION...UNLEASH IT huhuhuhuhuhuhahaahhaahMWAWAWAHHHAHAHAA *goes off rabbling and ranting like a mad man*

    Well not really. The problem with H10 guild is when it starts being exclusive to friends and families, which is good and I support it in concept, but it's bad for the overall health of the game. You get to 10, you stop hiring, your guild becomes exclusive which is awesome for you, but returning players are stuffed. They can't find guilds or don't want to, they go to LFR. If you look around H25 guilds, they normally don't have just core raiders, they have backups, social structures, internal groups (which can cause dramas I know), this is part of the guild experience WoW has been lacking.

    M20 is not just about difficulty, it's social engineering for the better long term good of the game, to bring guilds back, to bring structures back, to bring dramas back (For the better or worse lol). It's taking players out of their tiny 10 man never recruiting comfort zones, I'll have to make a lot of adjustments myself, but I personally think it's will make the overall atmosphere, if not better, closer to WOTLK.
    I agree with this. 10m are generally very cliqueish, there isn't enough room for many different groups or social groups, or even things like conferring with others who play your class about gemming/reforging/rotational strategies, as usually you're the only one of your class anyways. With a 20m you need more structure, but not a huge amount. You have room enough for additional people so it doesn't feel like a social club.

  13. #653
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Sacrelis View Post
    Well my friends, this may be one of the last few 10 vs 25 man whine post.

    BETTER LET IT ALL OUT, the pent-up ANGER, the RAGE, the INJUSTICE you have been forced to subject to over all these years. To be BELITTLED and looked down upon, the HUMILITY, the AGONY, the SUBJUGATION and the OPPRESSION...UNLEASH IT huhuhuhuhuhuhahaahhaahMWAWAWAHHHAHAHAA *goes off rabbling and ranting like a mad man*

    Well not really. The problem with H10 guild is when it starts being exclusive to friends and families, which is good and I support it in concept, but it's bad for the overall health of the game. You get to 10, you stop hiring, your guild becomes exclusive which is awesome for you, but returning players are stuffed. They can't find guilds or don't want to, they go to LFR. If you look around H25 guilds, they normally don't have just core raiders, they have backups, social structures, internal groups (which can cause dramas I know), this is part of the guild experience WoW has been lacking.

    M20 is not just about difficulty, it's social engineering for the better long term good of the game, to bring guilds back, to bring structures back, to bring dramas back (For the better or worse lol). It's taking players out of their tiny 10 man never recruiting comfort zones, I'll have to make a lot of adjustments myself, but I personally think it's will make the overall atmosphere, if not better, closer to WOTLK.
    10 mans do recruit. The recruiting pool is growing smaller has time passes with the game though. You are completely ignoring this and working on the assumption that the pool has someone stayed the same or just increased over time with an ageing game.

    Maybe Blizzard should've thought about social engineering the dead realms when they first started dying or when people warned about the dangers of 10-25 being chained together. Social engineering that alienates the core of your raiders is quite a stupid thing to do.

  14. #654
    Quote Originally Posted by Nobleshield View Post
    I agree with this. 10m are generally very cliqueish, there isn't enough room for many different groups or social groups, or even things like conferring with others who play your class about gemming/reforging/rotational strategies, as usually you're the only one of your class anyways. With a 20m you need more structure, but not a huge amount. You have room enough for additional people so it doesn't feel like a social club.
    Weren't you crying on the paladin forums a while back about how your co-tank was mean and arrogant and how you wanted to take a select few out of your 10 man group and start afresh? Either that or quit or something?
    Now imagine how hard it will be to find 19 others whose company you enjoy. That or find a thicker skin somewhere.
    You seem to have inexplicably changed your tune from ranting about how hard it is to find 10 good people to suddenly thinking you will fill 20 spots easily.

    I'm curious as to why?

  15. #655
    Ghostcrawler already tweeted that 10mans are easier than 25s and always have lol. Obviously the 10mans will die when they try to merge up and can't handle real content when they are used to their ez modes. They won't be able to handle the organization or coordination it takes in raids when they're use to their near-dungeon experience where they just tunnel their own thing and maybe track one other guy. good ridnance.

  16. #656
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by fappasaurus View Post
    Ghostcrawler already tweeted that 10mans are easier than 25s and always have lol. Obviously the 10mans will die when they try to merge up and can't handle real content when they are used to their ez modes. They won't be able to handle the organization or coordination it takes in raids when they're use to their near-dungeon experience where they just tunnel their own thing and maybe track one other guy. good ridnance.
    They were so easy paragon had to 1 heal and 600+ pulls on Garrosh. You are so blind to reality it's insulting

  17. #657
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by masteryuri View Post
    I've been in a 25H guild and I've watched blood legion and method raiding, just like I saw the dps on blood legion world first protectors's video attacking the wrong target for 1 minute.
    Nice catch, +1

  18. #658
    Quote Originally Posted by masteryuri View Post
    They were so easy paragon had to 1 heal and 600+ pulls on Garrosh. You are so blind to reality it's insulting
    lol the president of warcraft tweeted it u think hes gonna lie about them setting up 10man easier than 25s atm?

  19. #659
    removing post
    Last edited by Zstar21; 2013-11-10 at 04:36 PM. Reason: Removed

  20. #660
    At least in the west, the number of guilds that have at least cleared heroic nourshen on 10m make up about .7% of the total player base. If all if them stopped playing blizzard would be just fine. I suggest heroic 10ms start recruiting and merging. I doubt it will change. That data was taken from wowprogress. For many heroic 10m raiders, if they can't raid "mythic" they won't bother playing. The new heroic (normal) isn't worth the time. That said, maybe 10-20% might stop playing not all of them.

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