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  1. #1

    sv better than bm?

    i only play lfr but i seem to always get better resulys as sv. is it just bad play or are one better than the other?

  2. #2
    Not really. Both are pretty strong specs with individual advantages and disadvantages. For example BM more or less has stronger AoE but SV's has the advantage that if the targets split up after being close, some amount of damage resulting from the AoE continues on all the targets (without having to individually apply SrS's). BM can be crippled by the pet depending on fight mechanics ruining pet AI or just being generally undesirable (a fight with air phases, for example, though we have none of those in current content - Atramedes comes to mind in the past). Even strategy differences could make you favor a certain spec.

    All 3 specs are pretty close now, though MM's AoE is a bit weaker and is a bit trickier to play due to a lot of high-cost shots and the focus management that requires, though fundamentally it's not really any different.
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  3. #3
    With 4 PC t16 I am now playing strictly playing survival. I am pulling pretty much the same single target dps as BM. I have always preferred sv Aoe than having to deal with BMs pet management.

  4. #4
    The Lightbringer Tehterokkar's Avatar
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    Simcraft official is showing BM ahead of SV by about 8k DPS IIRC. This is at BiS gear.

  5. #5
    Remember with T16 4P, Survival is RNG's b*tch (lightweight), but it's never negative. You can do normal, or you can do so much better with good LnLs.
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  6. #6
    yea sv can pull even more dps than bm if you are lucky with free ES's.

  7. #7
    So basically:
    Feeling lucky today? Roll survival. Feeling like Donald Duck? Roll BM. Feeling from between but you can pretty much master hunter? Roll BM.

    It's common misunderstanding that sv have better aoe, but if you actually know how to manage pet BM does far more aoe damage.

  8. #8
    I prefer BM, but only because I'm much, much better at BM than SV, I generally do ~10-15% more single target as BM. I've been meaning to upload my SV logs to the fix my DPS thread.

    To you SV pros, do you refresh your serpent sting during those silly 4pc chains of ES? I keep seeing 48-58% up time on the ES DoT, and my SS uptime on single target is usually ~80-90%, the higher my ES up time, the lower my SS up time because I don't have an opportunity to refresh it. I also try to fish LnL procs with Ice Trap on adds where applicable with SV, but even then, the damage isn't comparable. I'm currently using TotH, but I've been meaning to check out Fervor.

    I think my BM damage is typically 30-40k ahead of my SV damage on most fights at 567 ilvl. ( 4pc, HWF bow off Protectors, H Assurance, H Renatakis )

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by boogie View Post
    I prefer BM, but only because I'm much, much better at BM than SV, I generally do ~10-15% more single target as BM. I've been meaning to upload my SV logs to the fix my DPS thread.

    To you SV pros, do you refresh your serpent sting during those silly 4pc chains of ES? I keep seeing 48-58% up time on the ES DoT, and my SS uptime on single target is usually ~80-90%, the higher my ES up time, the lower my SS up time because I don't have an opportunity to refresh it. I also try to fish LnL procs with Ice Trap on adds where applicable with SV, but even then, the damage isn't comparable. I'm currently using TotH, but I've been meaning to check out Fervor.

    I think my BM damage is typically 30-40k ahead of my SV damage on most fights at 567 ilvl. ( 4pc, HWF bow off Protectors, H Assurance, H Renatakis )
    I refresh after.

    Don't "fish" for procs. Use Ice Trap when you need to and leave it at that. However, someone correct me if something changed from 5.3 to now on this.

    Fervor is the best for single target and AOE burst while Toth is best for constant AOE. I assume DB is still skewed on SimC, getting extra attacks or something. If not, the only fight that it would be good on is Malkorok.
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  10. #10
    I'd say MM is at least as twice as good as SV and slightly ahead of BM in terms of single target and aoe. At least when it comes to hardcore raiding with 576+ gear and a 580 bow. Pulls about 10k more than BM to my calculations and experience.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremypwnz View Post
    I refresh after.

    Don't "fish" for procs. Use Ice Trap when you need to and leave it at that. However, someone correct me if something changed from 5.3 to now on this.
    Thanks, Jeremypwnz. I've been meaning to try out Fervor, just haven't had much time outside of raiding the last few weeks. It's never worth it to get LnL procs off Ice Trap when there are adds that proc it? Is it an issue of wasting a GCD on getting your LnL at 6 seconds instead of chancing it for later?

    Not that I don't believe you, I can't get my single target SV much over 290-300k.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yes View Post
    I'd say MM is at least as twice as good as SV and slightly ahead of BM in terms of single target and aoe. At least when it comes to hardcore raiding with 576+ gear and a 580 bow. Pulls about 10k more than BM to my calculations and experience.

    Looking at the top 20 logs, even discounting the top 10 and just looking at 10-20 on World of Logs, MM is significantly behind both SV and BM on single target and AoE fights to the tune of 30-100K+ DPS. It's only 30-40k on single target, but on cleave fights, I think disparate is probably the best word to use.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Yes View Post
    I'd say MM is at least as twice as good as SV and slightly ahead of BM in terms of single target and aoe. At least when it comes to hardcore raiding with 576+ gear and a 580 bow. Pulls about 10k more than BM to my calculations and experience.
    Twice? So you are pulling over 700k in single target and roughly over million in aoe, outside of opener? Brb, going to check logs and finally learn from the master. I'd like to also see those calculations, I'm very eager to learn.

  13. #13
    Mechagnome Supakaiser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremypwnz View Post
    I refresh after.

    Don't "fish" for procs. Use Ice Trap when you need to and leave it at that. However, someone correct me if something changed from 5.3 to now on this.

    Fervor is the best for single target and AOE burst while Toth is best for constant AOE. I assume DB is still skewed on SimC, getting extra attacks or something. If not, the only fight that it would be good on is Malkorok.
    Is DB really not simming properly?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yes View Post
    I'd say MM is at least as twice as good as SV and slightly ahead of BM in terms of single target and aoe. At least when it comes to hardcore raiding with 576+ gear and a 580 bow. Pulls about 10k more than BM to my calculations and experience.
    Who are you? Every post I've seen by you (2) is just full of ludicrous claims.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Beace View Post
    Who are you? Every post I've seen by you (2) is just full of ludicrous claims.
    He sounds like a Bigass troll by the sounds of it.

    BM and SV are very close but it comes down to luck for SV and how good you are at micro managing your pet for BM. For an average player BM will generally come out top as its easier to play (Boring), however every now and then SV might pip BM if you have good luck on LnL procs.

    Personally, if its farm and I CBA I will play BM, progression I play SV but I do have 4PC and HWF AOC so naturally SV will be better for me.

  16. #16
    i'd prefer sketchy LnL procs way more than a blizz pet system

  17. #17
    Both strong specs, with bm having light advantage on single target fights. And i think the 4pc on sv is taking away a LOT of the strength of the 2pc.

  18. #18
    The Lightbringer Tharkkun's Avatar
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    I finally got 4 piece last night and switched back to survival. It's so frustrating having to passive/assist your pet when it gets stuck on a box, tree, piece of dirt or blink strikes into an object.

  19. #19
    Kindly ask your tank not to tank adds beside boxes on spoils lol.
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  20. #20
    Bloodsail Admiral Invictus9001's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shockymonkey View Post
    I have always preferred sv Aoe than having to deal with BMs pet management.
    I always laugh at 'pet management' remarks. /petattack used in a macro with one's main attacks (and actually being in normal line of sight) is all the 'management' needed. (I say this from the standpoint of playing not only a hunter, but also a Frost Mage, an Unholy DK, and a Demonology Warlock.)

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