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  1. #101
    The Patient Rokzum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aerofluff View Post
    If that's actually the case, it sounds like a ridiculously big friggin' retcon. As in... Garrosh changed history, so now Draenor never became the ruined Outland, so anything your character "did" while leveling through Outland, you never actually did. Thrallmar and Honor Hold? Never existed. Black Temple never even happened, it's still the pristine Karabor, and who the heck knows what happened with Illidan and Kael'thas... In fact, preventing the orcs from drinking Mannoroth's blood probably would've prevented the first invasion from happening when it did (especially if Garrosh is building up the Iron Horde to return for his own vengeful purposes), which would prevent the modern day Horde from existing, etc... so much paradox.

    It seems like it changes too much, it has to be an alternate timeline for any of that to even be possible. And that's just getting so convoluted that I don't like it.
    Blizzard needs to explain this crap.
    So what you're really trying to say is.... Kael'thas will return!

    Joking aside whats up with the pictures that say "Alliance and Horde"? Will there be cross faction grouping now?

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Argarock View Post
    I see what he did there

    inc speculations that Grom is Thralls real father
    Yes Thrall is Garrosh - and Garrosh is Thrall ...

  3. #103
    Keyboard Turner
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    Ok. I'm sure i got how this works. Hopfully this makes some sense to people:

    Garrosh breaks free and goes back in time. Let me say here that the bronze Dragon flight lost there powers in Cata so whatever power they have now are a shadow of what they once had.

    Garrosh's action cause a parallel universe story to happen (been done loads like the TV show Fringe!) possibly because of the diminished powers of the bronze flight.

    Garrosh convinces the Horde leaders to form the Iron Horde. (and here is where it gets interesting...) He Tells Gul'Dan of another world (Azerorth) that is ripe for plunder, fulfilling the role that Medivh plays in the original timeline. Gul'dan already the first warlock and in communication with demons (as mentioned in his official bio on WoD site) has knowledge of how to create the dark portal.

    The Iron Horde decide to conquer the whole of Draenor first to then be unopposed when they invade this new land and construction of the Dark portal begins. At this point they kick Gul'dan out of the iron Horde (as per Bio)

    Fast forward to WoD... This Dark portal in the Parallel universe will *also* connect to our Dark portal thus allowing alternative reality Iron horde access to our Azeroth unchanged by its current history tied to Outland..

    We go via an event at Dark portal to this parallel universe to stop the iron horde form completing its conquest of Draenor to protect Azeroth. In some sense we are acting a bit like WarCraft 2: Beyond the dark portal on a larger scale in to a parallel universe... That's where we will start as players...

    Also worth noting reading the bios on the Site. Durotan is not with the Iron horde and Grommash is 50/50 with them which will be a nice subplot for Horde.

    Blizz has some tidying up to do over all that but essentially i think that's what Metzen was going with....
    Last edited by dethrix; 2013-11-09 at 10:03 AM. Reason: poor grammer!

  4. #104
    Dethrix, you and I are pretty much on the same page.

  5. #105
    is anyone else missing the gate in you're garrison(in the screen shots at least) and for that matter archers/defenses on the walls. its a savage world but those guys can find a gap in your wall.

  6. #106
    To answer all you asking "How is this not a 'travel back in time' expansion" I believe that the past in the outlands is changed enough that it effects the present. You're not going "back" in time, but rather you're going to Draenor as it exist today had some events never happened.

  7. #107
    Basically, it can't happen without 2 universes :

    In order to garrosh to be ABLE TO GO BACK IN TIME, he need to exist, the horde needs to exists and to live the events of SoO ect. So our current timeline MUST STILL EXIST for Garrosh to go back in time.

    So when he go back in time he create an alternate universe where orcs never invaded Azeroth, ect. But Draenor intact is not in OUR universe, it is in an ALTERNATE universe. Otherwise the very existence of Garrosh-time-traveler would be wiped out from the beginning. After that, Garrosh finally connect the Dark Portal, but because he's the one who connect it, it connect to OUR universe, and it connect to the first point in time where he can be opened : right after Garrosh time-traveled. So for years and years he can't connect it simply because the fabric of the multiverse dosen't allow him to do so. The Dark Portal turning red means the connection has changed : instead of connecting to OUR draenor, which is Outland now, it connect to ALTERNATE Draenor, which is still intact and with the Iron Horde.

    I would laugh if Garrosh cross first and is killed at the start of the expansion when we defend against the Iron Horde !
    So we don't time travel

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Araron View Post
    Hell yes,the best feature in the entire expansion.Screw new character models,we have asdasd!!
    I wonder where asdasd will lead us in the new expansion. Maybe it's the mind behind the randomness. The randomness of items with random stats!

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by mber341 View Post
    It took some time but I think I get it now. Draenor and Azeroth do not share timeline effect changes.
    -Original Draenor, orcs drink Mannoroth blood -> Old Horde steps through Dark Portal, invades Azeroth -> bunch of stuff -> present day Azeroth
    -Garrosh escapes, goes back in time to old Draenor -> prevents orcs drinking Mannoroth blood
    -Draenor is saved from destruction, however Azeroth remains unaffected (they are separate planets therefore Azeroth's history CANNOT change -- what changes on one planet doesn't affect the other until/unless they crossover [again])
    -Over time Changed Draenor catches up to present day Azeroth -> Iron Horde steps through Dark Portal into present day Azeroth (kick starting the expansion)

    This is the only way I can make sense of it, especially the bolded part.
    You are now the newest dumbest person I know.

    'bunch of stuff -> present day Azeroth' would have never occurred unless they drank the blood. your 'idea' (yes idea, not theory, because there are three theories of time travel all of which you have shown blatant disregard for) is silly because A) there is still an Outland & a Draenor, and B) there are Orcs on Azeroth. I'd agree with you on the condition that the Horde never existed on Azeroth.

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by StoNe220022 View Post
    You are now the newest dumbest person I know.

    'bunch of stuff -> present day Azeroth' would have never occurred unless they drank the blood. your 'idea' (yes idea, not theory, because there are three theories of time travel all of which you have shown blatant disregard for) is silly because A) there is still an Outland & a Draenor, and B) there are Orcs on Azeroth. I'd agree with you on the condition that the Horde never existed on Azeroth.
    I think they're following the Time Travel rule that what happens in the past cannot be changed because it already happened (unlike say, Back to the Future where Marty started fading from existence because of past changes). But also because Azeroth and Draenor are two separate planets and thus share two separate timelines. What happens in Draenor's past doesn't affect Azeroth, because on Azeroth the Old Horde already stepped through the Dark Portal setting everything else (my "bunch of stuff") into motion. It's already part of Azeroth's history. Changing Draenor's past affects/creates a new alternate reality for Draenor only. If someone went back in time and murdered a baby Arthas on Azeroth, then it would either 1) create a paradox for Azeroth or 2) create an alternate Azeroth. Since Blizzard said there is no paradox associated with WoD, this is the only THEORY I could think of that would make sense.

    And yes it IS a theory, by definition ("Theory is a contemplative and rational type of abstract or generalizing thinking, or the results of such thinking. Depending on the context, the results might for example include generalized explanations of how nature works."-wikipedia) Time Travel doesn't exist in real life. It's not a real thing. So you're my newest dumbest person I know for thinking there are only three specific theories of time travel when any old science fiction writer can make up whatever they want.
    Last edited by mber341; 2013-11-09 at 02:48 PM.

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Glub View Post
    <sigh> It's true, some people see what they want to see, hear just what they want to hear.

    I will spell it out for you: IT IS NOT A TIME TRAVEL XPAC. We don't travel *back* in time. The ancient Draenor *is brought* back from the past to the present. Changing anything there won't affect history. But since they were brought to our time, they will be able to invade us!

    C'mon, it is a simple concept people... no wait, now that I think about it, it's a quite clever idea!
    Edit: I was being a drunken jerk on the boards...wrote shit I shouldn't have, sorry
    Last edited by StoNe220022; 2013-11-10 at 05:38 AM.

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by mber341 View Post
    I think they're following the Time Travel rule that what happens in the past cannot be changed because it already happened (unlike say, Back to the Future where Marty started fading from existence because of past changes). But also because Azeroth and Draenor are two separate planets and thus share two separate timelines. What happens in Draenor's past doesn't affect Azeroth, because on Azeroth the Old Horde already stepped through the Dark Portal setting everything else (my "bunch of stuff") into motion. It's already part of Azeroth's history. Changing Draenor's past affects/creates a new alternate reality for Draenor only. If someone went back in time and murdered a baby Arthas on Azeroth, then it would either 1) create a paradox for Azeroth or 2) create an alternate Azeroth. Since Blizzard said there is no paradox associated with WoD, this is the only THEORY I could think of that would make sense.

    And yes it IS a theory, by definition ("Theory is a contemplative and rational type of abstract or generalizing thinking, or the results of such thinking. Depending on the context, the results might for example include generalized explanations of how nature works."-wikipedia) Time Travel doesn't exist in real life. It's not a real thing. So you're my newest dumbest person I know for thinking there are only three specific theories of time travel when any old science fiction writer can make up whatever they want.
    You are totally right, we cant explain azeroth with our own physics; but the fact is that blizzard already give us an explanation and its hide beneath the caverns of time, the bronze dragonflight and the struggle to defend any change on time from the infinite dragonflight; that means we know (or at less we knew) that time travel in Azeroth is like back to the future, in wich anything u do in the past affects ur own present (why do u have to travel on time to help medivh, arthas and thrall if thats not it) and now, out of nowhere, they change that to make us belive that garrosh went back in time and the changes he did created a paralel universe?... #$%&!

    Quote Originally Posted by Eugoogolizer View Post
    Unless the Blizzard universe exists where temporal paradoxes are all okay and just splinter harmlessly into separate dimensions. Like the mirror universe in Star Trek. Then yes, our Azeroth could exist just as it does, however it would have also created a second Azeroth where the orcs didn't invade, etc etc as laid out above. Then the Iron Horde of Draenor, using Gul'dan and Ner'zhul's knowledge could create the other side of a portal from their dimension that connects to ours. Then I'd be very interested to see Azeroth-2, since Draenor would just essentially be Outland-2 by another name.
    the problem is that, so far they made us belive we dont live in that kind of universe (caverns of time) Im so mad about that...

  13. #113
    asdasdasd improvements are always welcome
    Warlorcs of Draenorc made me quit. You can't have my stuff.

  14. #114
    The main thing to understand is that the reality of WoW is nothing like ours.

    The worlds in WoW are probably like the ones in The Chronicles of Narnia. The Great Dark Beyond probably isn't exactly like our space, but lets you travel/see other universes, somewhat like that corridor universe that allowed travel between different worlds in "The Magician's Nephew".

    We can see that it probably works that way, as the Exodar is a dimensional ship, not a spaceship. There may be some special connection between the Draenor Universe and the Azeroth Universe, as there is between Narnia and Earth

    Since each world exists is in its own universe, the laws of time would function independently in each world (again, think Narnia vs Earth).


    Why there is Outland and New Draenor:

    Universes in WoW work different than they do here.

    Each "Universe" could be a Multiverse all by itself.

    We can see the Emerald Dream as its own universe in the Azeroth Multiverse, a pristine back-up copy of the Azeroth we live in now.

    Garrosh's going into the past spawns off a new universe in the Draenor Multiverse, and that's the one the Iron Horde is invading from.


    The Bronze Dragonflight
    The Bronze Dragonflight would be in charge of time in our universe alone.

    The Bronze Dragonflight's job is to prevent the spawns of these random universes in the Azeroth Multiverse. They keep real (as opposed to possible) universes in the Azeroth Multiverse to as few as possible (the Emerald Dream and the main Azeroth we live in).


    Why is New Draenor locking onto our Azeroth as opposed to the Azeroth in their universe?

    The fact that the Iron Horde is Stargate locking into our Dark Portal means that there ISN'T an alternative Azeroth with a Dark Portal (remember portals need to exist on each side).

    Since every world is in it's own universe, and nothing has been changed in our universe, New Draenor's Dark Portal is just locking onto the only Azeroth Dark Portal there is.
    Last edited by Levaustian; 2013-11-10 at 01:41 AM.

  15. #115
    Actually I'm OK with the parallel universe thing. I only wonder what impact this expansion will have on the main story and what connection it will have with the next expansion.

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