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  1. #141
    Legendary! Pendra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mpougatsa View Post
    can we focus on the talents etc...who fu@@ing cares for lores ty !!!
    A lot of people do.
    Personally, I really enjoy reading some of Yvaelle's and Deviant's posts.
    Last edited by Pendra; 2013-11-14 at 11:43 PM.

  2. #142
    Legendary! muto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CharityDKT View Post
    I don't see PotV or Guidance in their current incarnation making it to beta, let alone live. Metzen did say that the current 100 talents are fairly loosey-goosey and that they're just looking for general feedback on their initial ideas - at least that's what I took from it.
    Why? It's not like they are that good. I don't feel like nerfing my healing, gimping the raid, to heal someone for 50% of their maximum health, because they were too stupid and pulled threat, didn't use a defensive, or stood in poop. Powers of the Void isn't that good either. Why would I want to risk killing myself to save someone else's ass on a periodic basis? Clarity of Will is the only useful talent there imo.

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by muto View Post
    Why? It's not like they are that good. I don't feel like nerfing my healing, gimping the raid, to heal someone for 50% of their maximum health, because they were too stupid and pulled threat, didn't use a defensive, or stood in poop. Powers of the Void isn't that good either. Why would I want to risk killing myself to save someone else's ass on a periodic basis? Clarity of Will is the only useful talent there imo.
    And yet that is the one that has a history of not working before...

  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by mpougatsa View Post
    can we focus on the talents etc...who fu@@ing cares for lores ty !!!
    While we have indeed strayed a little from the main topic of the thread there's not need to be rude about it- a lot of people get different things from the game including the lore behind who/where/why they play. Just because you don't appreciate it the same way (not an accusation, I'm aware that lore isn't for everyone) is no cause to word your request like so. A more appropriate way would be 'Can we please stick to the topic at hand?', thank you.

    I'm personally enjoying the lore discussions and delving into the theories/beliefs behind Shadowism and its history even if it is a little off-topic, but that's the definition of conversation really, moving on from one thing to the next. I, myself, think at this stage we cannot say or explore much more regarding the 100 Talents as they are indeed not final and not in concrete and don't know what else, if anything, will change with WoD.

  5. #145
    Divine clarity disc: Good, interesting change if people want to go full shield healing

    Holy: Um no, this should of been baked into PoH. Why do the continue to fucking beat around the bush with this? They did the exact same thing with lightwell for years before just giving up and making lightspring baseline no glyph. Do they not learn? Like at all? "We want PoH to be unique" adding a lame party frame restriction is not fucking unique.

    Shadow: Finally something to do to burn targets

    Power of the void holy/disc: Could be OP, not sure how good this will turn out

    Shadow: Boring. Simple and boring to place a dot once every minute, completely useless in PvP. Shadow needs another orb spender baseline, not tied to a talent. This has to be one of the most laziest talents implemented.

    Spiritual guidance holy/disc: Again could be OP, don't see it having many practical uses.

    Shadow: Good change, but with DP being the only thing we can spend orbs on we would get overloaded fast.
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  6. #146
    I have a feeling that shadowpriests are going to have some incredibly high burst in pvp with these talents. Of course PotV is going to be useless without extra dot protection (not going to happen), but the other two make out to be interesting. Divine Clarity is going to turn us in to a sort of elemental priest basically; getting some chain mastery procs is going to be crazy.

    If you get locked to shadow, you can now spam huge damage spikes in to their face without worry because of shadowfrost. You will basically have to bait kicks with shadow casts, and then spike away. Doing that in reverse would lock out our entire dps arsenal. The major problem with this spec is mobility...like usual. This spec will turn us in to ele shamans with RNG gibbing and strong burst. With the mind blast glyph, you will have to be locked in two schools to prevent orb generation as opposed to one as it is today. I forsee juking with a mind blast hard cast and mind flay/insanity to get off our spike casts. A smart way to counter this would be to save kicks for our mind spikes. Because of kicking mind spikes, this spec might not be viable at all in arena. If people can reliably be juked or baited in to kicking shadow spells instead of spikes, then this spec will work.

    One point of interest in this talent is what happens to our level 75 tree. Power infusion would likely be the talent of choice, but we all know how easy that is to dispel. I could see multidotting with shadow word pain on non kill targets for mind blast procs, but that would detract away from hard casting spikes ever assuming you get procs. I think that this talent would really make the level 75 talents garbage.

    On top of this, our burst rotation is going to be: (5 orbs banked)

    shadowfiend, plague, mind blast, insanity, plague, insanity

    This talent only helps the mind blast portion of this burst.....I would have to look at orb generation rates in pvp to see if this talent provides more or less burst opportunities than Spiritual Guidance.

    Spiritual guidance is probably going to be the spec of choice for pvp. Instead of detracting from our level 75 talents, this one will synergize so well with Divine Insight. With crit being the obvious talent of choice to maximize this talent, multidotting with shadow word pain is going to be great. While insanity is probably going to be king for burst without being trained, I am thinking that mindbender and FDCL could also be viable options. WIth FDCL, our rotation couldb e changed to:

    shadowfiend, plague, mind blast, spike x 2, plague, ?????

    The ??? could be another plague, more spikes, or more mind blasts. Overall, this talent is going to probably be the choice of every pvp priest out there because of the cast free orb generation and the potential for shear stupidity in pvp burst. I imagine max ranging a few targets and spamming SWP's all around with 5 orbs banked. As soon as I see a few SA's form up, start up the AOE crowd bursting rotation of mulitdotting plagues.

    TLDR: Divine Clarity relies on not getting mind spikes kicked, and how much this change will affect orb generation rates. Mastery vs Crit will have to be looked at to see which can be more deadly. Also, mobility is going to be a huge issue. On the other side, Spiritual Guidance provides SO much synergy with our talents that we could see some of the crazyiest sustained burst rotations ever seen. Divine clarity would need kick protection on mind spikes as well as some form of synergy with level 75 talents to even be worth it.

  7. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    Holy: Um no, this should of been baked into PoH. Why do the continue to fucking beat around the bush with this? They did the exact same thing with lightwell for years before just giving up and making lightspring baseline no glyph. Do they not learn? Like at all? "We want PoH to be unique" adding a lame party frame restriction is not fucking unique.
    That's because the developers (and the top guilds) agree that Lightwell is superior to Lightspring in every way possible. Blizzard knows it. The best Priests in the game know it. The designers finally just threw their hands up and caved to the lazy casuals after copious amounts of tears. It's sad good Priests have to use up a Glyph slot now because of terribad raiders.

  8. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by tiporispit View Post
    That's because the developers (and the top guilds) agree that Lightwell is superior to Lightspring in every way possible. Blizzard knows it. The best Priests in the game know it. The designers finally just threw their hands up and caved to the lazy casuals after copious amounts of tears. It's sad good Priests have to use up a Glyph slot now because of terribad raiders.
    Its the best because they made the healing high because you have to click it. Problem is nobody clicks it. No matter how much you buff its healing nobody wants to click it.

    Thats beside the point though. They keep dancing around issues that have existed for years before actually doing a real fix. PoH has been complained about since Wrath and their excuse is "we don't want to make everything seem similar". So their solution 4 years later? Give holy another aoe heal by getting rid of another spell not relevant to aoe healing.
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  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    Its the best because they made the healing high because you have to click it. Problem is nobody clicks it. No matter how much you buff its healing nobody wants to click it.

    Thats beside the point though. They keep dancing around issues that have existed for years before actually doing a real fix. PoH has been complained about since Wrath and their excuse is "we don't want to make everything seem similar". So their solution 4 years later? Give holy another aoe heal.
    Top guilds click it. Like I said, it's a bad raider issue, not a spell issue.

  10. #150
    Bloodsail Admiral nobodysbaby's Avatar
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    Worst yet would be if they left Chakra as it is. Even a 5s CD still wouldnt make it any more appealing, on the contrary; even more annoying in PvE.

    As I said, Holys new AoE heal is probably just an experiment to get rid of PoH group limitations and Holy is the specc to try it on; less risk of getting Disc upset? Haha... well, that wouldnt surprise me at all. Bitter? Yeah.
    Last edited by nobodysbaby; 2013-11-15 at 09:25 PM.

  11. #151
    Quote Originally Posted by Nivis View Post
    A lot of people do.
    Personally, I really enjoy reading some of Yvaelle's and Deviant's posts.
    I also like to read Yvaelle's posts.

    I will flay your mind.

  12. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by tiporispit View Post
    Top guilds click it. Like I said, it's a bad raider issue, not a spell issue.
    Top guilds is extremely vague and not even 5% of the population. Its quite silly to balance around a small percentage of people.

    But that is beside the point, like I said, blizzard just dances around issues that have existed for years in which the priest community has vocalized and even they respond to it but the best we get is "wait till the expansion". Expansion comes around and instead of fixing PoH they roll it into a ST spell wasting a talent.

    I don't know why they make transitioning from ST to AoE and vice versa for Holy priests is Hell. Chakra bonus is balanced around other healers so you have to be in the right stance to be competitive and each stance has a long ass CD and now they make a talent to replace your ST heal with an aoe (furthering you away from transitioning between ST and AoE). What other healer has these problems? None. Disc, Holy Pal, resto druid, resto shaman, monk don't lose any heals in replace of another or healing effectiveness because of stances....

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by nobodysbaby View Post
    Worst yet would be if they left Chakra as it is. Even a 5s CD still wouldnt make it any more appealing, on the contrary; even more annoying in PvE.

    As I said, Holys new AoE heal is probably just an experiment to get rid of PoH group limitations and Holy is the specc to try it on; less risk of getting Disc upset? Haha... well, that wouldnt surprise me at all. Bitter? Yeah.
    10y radius is really small for an experiment. My bet? It stays and it becomes the niche aoe heal when raids need to stack.
    Last edited by zito; 2013-11-16 at 12:41 AM.
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  13. #153
    Bloodsail Admiral nobodysbaby's Avatar
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    Sounds horrible Zito:-( We really dont need that kind of heal? Heard an idea it might be useful for healing two tanks... but idk if I like that much better. For healing melee PoH does a good job so no meaning to take the talent for that either?

    Oh.. you think they wont redesign Chakra as a mechanic? Kind of the reason I cling to Holy is that hope they will change Chakra into something actually useful. Since freaking WotLK and the release Ive been waiting. I will give up on trying to gear for Holy and play that as MS, Im really sick of feeling like a second class citizen cause of the whole Disc vs Holy thing.

  14. #154
    Oh.. you think they wont redesign Chakra as a mechanic?
    Yes. I don't think they will change the mechanic of chakra or change PoH.

    From the lack of info at blizzcon when chakra was asked upon and the fact that its being reduced in CD is contradictory of everything they said about chakra and never needed an expansion to alter the CD of chakra. Why they waited so long for another bandaid fix is lost on me.

    Divine clarity Holy is another WTF change. It removes the ability to be a sustained ST healer (something other healers don't sacrifice period) by giving it a weak PoH clone with a small radius (10y). Absolute lazy, waste of a talent and still ignores PoH. AGAIN.

    They ignored lightwell for just as long and they finally caved on a change that should of been implemented in Wrath. Why they continue to dance around and slap bandaids on everything is beyond me.

    5 shadow orb change shouldn't of waited so long either.
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  15. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    Power of the void

    Shadow: Boring. Simple and boring to place a dot once every minute, completely useless in PvP. Shadow needs another orb spender baseline, not tied to a talent. This has to be one of the most laziest talents implemented.

    .
    I <3 you, Zito.

    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    5 shadow orb change shouldn't of waited so long either.
    I've said before Shadow orbs were TERRIBLE in MoP. You could tell the devs put minimal effort into it. Color me surprised. It SHOULD be better in WoD.

  16. #156
    I <3 you, Zito.
    I.... um... I have no response to happy feedbacks. This has never happened to me before. WHAT IS THIS

    I've said before Shadow orbs were TERRIBLE in MoP. You could tell the devs put minimal effort into it. Color me surprised. It SHOULD be better in WoD.
    Would of been better but you can tell they just half assed it. Having only 2 orb spenders is horrible and physic horror should never been turned into an orb cost. Horrible nerf for PvP and useless in PvE.
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  17. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by Drye View Post
    The concept for these shouldn't change but they don't work the same way anymore. (They're like 5 patches ahead of what was tested)
    ^ Anyone who still thinks these talents havent changed drastically yet, must be their first xpack.

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  18. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by Drye View Post
    ^ Anyone who still thinks these talents havent changed drastically yet, must be their first xpack.
    That us probably the case but I want info.. not just .. yea it changed.. cus thats obvious.


  19. #159
    Moderator Yvaelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deviantcultist View Post
    Shadow ascendants are not exclusively Priests. Any believer of the Forgotten Shadow (Forsaken Faith) is a candidate to that state of being.
    From the Shadow Ascendant description (reprinted on wowwiki): "Ascendants come from all walks of life, but most are priests (though the occasional warrior or rogue may find ascension in the Forgotten Shadow)."

    So, to be clear - Ascendants are overwhelmingly priests, very rarely rogues and warriors - and never warlocks.

    I challenge you to find ONE aspect of lore that mentions the relation of Priests to the Void. It has been five years of looking into Priest lore and nothing to be found on that. Evidence required of course.
    How about the very description of the birth of the Warcraft universe, from the 5th Issue of WoW The Magazine, wherein Metzen stated the following:

    "It is said that in the beginning there was Light and there was Void and a time long ago, the two collided in the abyss of the Great Dark.

    Infinite worlds spiralled out into the newly forming cosmos...
    Take careful note of his choice of words there, he very specifically didn't say "light and shadow" but "light and Void" - occurring within the Great Dark Beyond - which is where Shadow power comes from (as opposed to warlock's demonic-inspired power). Void is a synonym for Shadow in his lexicon, it is not connected to Fel Magic. The path of Shadow is pursuit of mastery of that same juxtaposition of light and void/darkness which spawned the universe.


    http://wow.tcgbrowser.com/images/car...e_void_woa.jpg
    http://wow.tcgbrowser.com/images/car...e_void_btp.jpg
    http://wow.tcgbrowser.com/images/car...trous_void.jpg
    http://wow.tcgbrowser.com/images/car.../void_pact.jpg
    http://wow.tcgbrowser.com/images/car...m/void_rip.jpg

    Here are some cards on top of the skills I've mentioned before. There is not a SINGLE card referring to void and Priests and especially nothing in WoW prior to MoP that added Void Tendrils and Void Shift.
    I happily concede that some playing cards connect warlocks with the void, but I'm not too concerned about it. The cards in question were created by Upper Deck Entertainment, not Blizzard (or Chris Metzen), in 2010 Upper Deck lost their contract to make the card game and their cards became non-canon (if they ever even were canon, which is arguable) .

    I think it's understandable that a non-canon, non-Metzen card game would have a different ideology than Metzen's universe or understanding of the void/great dark beyond/shadow connection. Further, since WoW takes precedence for lore accuracy (IMO) - and Void Tendrils, Void Shift, and now Void Entropy have all been recently added to Shadow's lineup and not Warlocks - our connection to the void should be pretty clear, since that is Metzen's doing.

    As for the Warlock Shadowform trivia, all I can currently find is this forum link.
    Which should probably tell you that it's not a thing, that would be pretty big news if it were true - but someone else apart from yourself would probably have heard of it if so.

    However, every fact there can be indirectly proven true, which strengthens the validity of the thread and secondly, I assure you that I will post any less ambiguous link that I can find.
    I'm not sure if you meant to link to a different forum or if the preposition was meant to imply "this" forum thread now.. if you mean this forum, then I would say your claims are highly suspect and very biased - if you meant to link to a different thread where someone official made that claim then please provide it - you have my attention


    PS: I'm enjoying our conversation, but I've yet to be convinced of your argument in any way - still trying to be open-minded though!
    Last edited by Yvaelle; 2013-11-16 at 09:34 AM.
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  20. #160
    I want PoH to stay group targeted, I want a talent that changes Lightwell into a more active tool for holy and... This is a big one... Since Divine Clarity makes Greater heal into an aoe.... I want it to refresh renew in yellow chakra. On all targets hit.
    ...
    Crossing fingers!

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