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  1. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by Alanar View Post
    That us probably the case but I want info.. not just .. yea it changed.. cus thats obvious.
    Well... Let's take a very simple look at how shadow currently is. We get forced to pick insanity anytime we have to nuke down/switch targets, look at ra den, We have weak single target, and we have weak mobility dps.

    Talent one, allows us to get our dots on our main target so we are able to do quick switches without sacrificing dos on the single target, like not having to hold orbs on ra den to nuke down the anima.

    Talent two is really nice for single target fights like iron juggernaut or malkorok, where we don't have to switch targets and just ficus that one target for extend end periods if time.

    The third target is great for any multi dot fight where you have a lot of movement, like paragons, having all those extra orbs woke moving will be great.

    Obviously, these are crude forms of the talents and numbers are not close to be finished, but the ideas themselves are good. They help a lot of our current problems. Overall, I'm really pumped for 6.0 it seems they want to fix a lot if the problems and I'm really happy about it.

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  2. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by Yvaelle View Post
    I'm not sure if you meant to link to a different forum or if the preposition was meant to imply "this" forum thread now.. if you mean this forum, then I would say your claims are highly suspect and very biased - if you meant to link to a different thread where someone official made that claim then please provide it - you have my attention
    PS: I'm enjoying our conversation, but I've yet to be convinced of your argument in any way - still trying to be open-minded though!
    Void is the absence of Light, not the counter-reflection of Light, which is Shadow. Therefore, nobody can prove that the WoW universe conception is about the bipolar nature of Priests. I'd say Priests refer to the Shadow connecting those ends, not the absence one of those. That, however, does not render the Priest as a heir to that power just because Metzen hinted stuff about the origins of the universe.

    As for my claims regarding proving the origins of Shadowform, I've said any proof I can provide is vague for the time being. You, however, try to disprove the TCG claim by saying it is non-canon. I mean, the cards have been released throughout different periods of WoW and the criticism regarding this controversy has arisen relatively recently.

    An additional note would be this quest: http://www.wowwiki.com/Quest:The_Stolen_Tome
    Pay attention to the context, the fact that it was present past-Wotlk when Priest did not have all those "void" skills and that along with all the other Warlock quest mentioning the Void and its connection to the powers wielded by the Warlocks. I do not deny the fact that from MoP onwards Priests have gotten Void related abilities and the Sha. All I'm saying is that this was not the original idea and there is proof about it (see Warlock quests), even if the Warlock Shadowform or Warlock void cards turn out to be baseless points.

    If Priests are to be the prime wielders of Void/Darkness, it would be nice to know while its early in order to finally focus in a single class after all these years. Namely, Priest.

  3. #163
    I don't get why you are even trying to argue with yvaelle about lore, he practically made the shadow lore.

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  4. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by Drye View Post
    I don't get why you are even trying to argue with yvaelle about lore, he practically made the shadow lore.
    I don't agree with Yaelle about his lore. Shadowpriests deal with the dark side of humanity. Evil, death, insanity, disease. Warlocks deal with the Nether and the Void and creatures of darkness. But there's a fair bit of crossover, so it's hard to say "the Void Belongs to a Warlock and Insanity to a Priest" because some of the spells blur the lines.

    I guess it depends what a Shadowpriest is to you. The dark side of humanity, or something more....supernatural.

  5. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by Drye View Post
    Talent one, allows us to get our dots on our main target so we are able to do quick switches without sacrificing dos on the single target, like not having to hold orbs on ra den to nuke down the anima.
    There are only two options:

    1) It is intended to be a DoT-less rotation. Just the existence of FDCL/DI doesn't make it balanceable. Either it's balanced single-target and broken when you get to use FDCL, or it's balanced around FDCL/DI, and useless when you don't get to use them.
    2) It is intended for the once-per-tier niche fight you described. Also with the new +2 Orb cap, holding Orbs does work for some time.

    1) looks like an interesting concept/idea that fails in combination with our other talents, leaving 2 as the only (very rare) use case. Doesn't really help the talent.
    Talent two is really nice for single target fights like iron juggernaut or malkorok
    So is Insanity. Unless they add some Mindflay bonus to talent 2 or some talent 2 bonus to insanity, it just adds one boring talent, that makes another talent more boring. Does it work, yes? Is it fun - no.
    With DoT snapshotting gone - which was one of the best parts about long duration dots - this spell need some kind of special effects to it to make it an interesting option (like Doom for Demo Locks has that crit-imp spawn thingy).ns, having all those extra orbs woke moving will be great. [/QUOTE]The third talent is seriously OP multi target, and probably too strong single target. Either add an ICD or a random factor too it, but we all know how lovely a random factor on a random factor turned out with our T15 2pc bonus.

    The third target is great for any multi dot fight where you have a lot of movement, like paragons, having all those extra orbs woke moving will be great.
    It's OP in multi-target, and probably still to good in single target. Tuning it requires either ICD, a random chance, or every x-th type of effect. How fun a chance on a chance is we've seen T15-2pc extension, tracking SA count or ICD isn't nice either.

    Besides - the general concept here isn't much different from DI: "Your SW:P has a chance to give you more Shadow Orbs". I don't really find it that interesting to tag this much orb generation onto SW:P. In generall the Talent 3 + DI + Insanity combo might be to big, even with talent 3 effect reduced.

  6. #166
    I guess it was GC that tweeted the dot-free talent was intended for spriests that do not wish to be a dot based dps spec, which is cool and well since we don't have a second alternative. And I believe that we're gonna shove the orbs generated by the spells in some place nasty since every single MSp cast will remove your DP. Or maybe they'll just adjust MSp not to remove DP or implement a DD finisher. Either way I can't say I'm too excited about the new talents. They look so... dull; especially while mages are getting comets and meteors and locks are getting perma doomguard and infernal.

  7. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by Drye View Post
    I don't get why you are even trying to argue with yvaelle about lore, he practically made the shadow lore.
    Appeal to authority. I think Deviant has some good points about priests/warlocks and their link to the void. At the very least, discussion should be encouraged on a class forum. It's not like there's any real flaming going on.

    Also I remember reading that players who use the instant boost to 90 will have to gain their abilities over time as they do their set of intro quests. It'd be cool if Blizzard could clear up some lore related aspects for every class through those quests. Maybe make it take place in a scenario so people that don't boost to 90 can experience it as well.

    On topic:

    I really like Clarity of Power. I love the idea of MSp/MB/SWD sniping adds and then funneling your orbs into the main target while keeping DoTs up. It sounds like a fun play style but that said, I have no idea how fights in WoD will actually work out. Heck, this might not even be how the talent will end up being used. Even then, it sounds really interesting compared to the other 2 talents. My problem with the talent is that this talent in particular seems like one of those talents that will only be viable on certain fights. Unless they tie in some sort of mana regen mechanic to the talent, it could end up being ABSOLUTELY useless on some fights. It's not like choosing between DI and ToF where you can make a case for both on certain fights. Clairity of Power will literally be the wrong choice for some fights.

    Void Entropy is just so horrid. There's really nothing appealing about it to me. I can see it being good long-time pressure in PvP so long as it can't get dispelled. However, PvE wise, it seems so boring. I guess it can be a safe choice when you're learning a fight since it might be hard to find times to use our DD spells on a new fight or there might be so many spread out adds that you'd be overwhelmed with SA shadow orbs. Fire and forget while you learn to master the mechanics of a fight. I'm going to be really saddened if this talent ends up being the most used of the 3 talents for raiding since it seems like the talent that will be the most reliable.

    The SA talent is not something I think I'll be able to enjoy. I like the idea of the talent, I just hate SA. The idea of having orb generation tied to something passive is just so boring. Not to mention I already consider SA to be the worst mechanic of being a shadow priest. It's completely fire and forget. I feel like the talent will end up being intentionally strong on paper but a tad bit weaker in practice because of having to track the physical bodies of your SAs in order to use every single orb without capping. Of course, this could easily be remedied with any common add on used by raiders today. However I still think this will be one of those "easier said than done" talents. 2 or 3 apparitions could end up hitting 2 or 3 different targets at the same time and just end up making you miss out on those precious orbs. In addition, the talent really does just seem like DI in disguise. DI is basically "keep SWP up in order to get more orbs". If you don't use your procs before the next SWP tick, you could end up losing out of orbs. Like wise, with this talent, if you don't use your orbs, you could end up losing out on orbs as your SAs hit.

  8. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by wombats23 View Post
    The SA talent is not something I think I'll be able to enjoy. I like the idea of the talent, I just hate SA. The idea of having orb generation tied to something passive is just so boring. Not to mention I already consider SA to be the worst mechanic of being a shadow priest. In addition, the talent really does just seem like DI in disguise. DI is basically "keep SWP up in order to get more orbs". If you don't use your procs before the next SWP tick, you could end up losing out of orbs. Like wise, with this talent, if you don't use your orbs, you could end up losing out on orbs as your SAs hit.
    No-no, the talent will be throttled to gain one orb every x seconds. Count on it. You won't lose any orbs. And SAs are much better now that they are FINALLY missiles.

  9. #169
    ~EDIT: The first part of this comment was made when I was still reading a few pages back and saw a couple people freaking out over "What if they make it to almost live like this!" Sorry. ~

    First off, there is zero code behind any of these. They're piles of text made to appear in a popup tooltip when you hover your mouse over. They were thrown together literally within the week of Blizzcon, with no idea of anything but flavor just to throw science at the wall to see what sticks.

    We're not even in Alpha yet. This is the exact exact exact reason we were level 90 at the demo machines, not level 95 for a couple of the new upgraded spells, or 100 for the new talents, just 90. Because nothing is ready. Literally, the only thing we've seen in play was item squish in effect, and bad Death Knight tanks standing in things that kill you, really that's about it.


    Now, simply musing on thoughts of what will never come, just for entertainment purposes, let's move onto what we actually saw:

    Saving Grace, as it were, would be an interesting idea of a "resource", basically putting Holy on as an Arcane Mage. Hell, it's more of a "resource" than Chakra ever was (anyone still remember the laughable mess that day was? oh god), and as Derevka put it at Blizzcon, Shifting Perspectives is ridiculously overpowered. It doesn't look like it as much as you think it would, but as he puts it "I basically become the best smart healing Beacon of Light. Put the Paladin's beacon on the Priest now, not the tank, and watch what happens."


    Class dev I had a chat with said from a healing perspective, even from this far back before anything else, that Saving Grace and Shifting Perspectives (or more accurately, "the left one and the right one" because as pointed out) would hypothetically fulfill too similar a role and if implemented like this, one of them would be cut for something to shake it up a bit more.
    Last edited by Kelesti; 2013-11-20 at 09:32 AM.
    ~Former Priest/Guild Wars 2 Moderator~
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  10. #170
    I like Clarity of Power. I hope it stays.
    Armory
    You are not your role. You are not how much gold you have on your account.
    You are not the mount you ride. You are not the contents of your bank.
    You are not your epic purples. You are not a special and unique snowflake.
    You are the all-grinding, all-farming crap of Azeroth.

  11. #171
    Ugh, my brain. Role-players can be quite the special bunch. First of all, TCG cards do not inherently = canon. Nothing is canon until "Word of God" declares it so. And pretty much anything can be retconed. That said, the primary difference between Warlock and Shadow Priests is this - Warlock's draw their power from Fel Magic and interact with demons - who are from the TWISTING NETHER. Shadow Priests draw their power from the anti-thesis of the Light, and their magic is composed two elements: that which warps the mind and that which consumes the energy of other things.

    The developers are choosing cool sounding words without consideration of their scientific purpose. That is because this is a GAME, and it is supposed to be FLAVORFUL. Warlocks can cause disease and they can hurl fire - but the ROOT of those powers are derived from FEL MAGIC. Damage type != Source of Power. A warlock casting Incinerate is not drawing on the same source of magic as a mage casting Pyroblast, even though they both inflict fire damage. Mages feed on arcane power, which they can manipulate into raw arcane, fire, or frost. Etc, etc, etc.

  12. #172
    /necro 5 month old thread

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  13. #173
    Not just five months old, but to reply to it with complaining of roleplayers, bring up lol-card game lore, and then still try to throw down? ...'kay.

    Definitely no popcorn worth having for this, I'ma go back to admiring my new Young Pyromancer tokens, kthnx
    ~Former Priest/Guild Wars 2 Moderator~
    Now TESTING: ArcheAge (Alpha)
    Now PLAYING: MonoRed Burn (MtG Standard)
    Twitter: @KelestiMMO come say hi!
    ~When you speak, I hear silence. Every word a defiance~

  14. #174
    Moderator Yvaelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti View Post
    Definitely no popcorn worth having for this, I'ma go back to admiring my new Young Pyromancer tokens, kthnx
    What is a young pyromancer token?

    It sounds like a summer camp currency for grandiose arsonists
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  15. #175
    Quote Originally Posted by Yvaelle View Post
    What is a young pyromancer token?

    It sounds like a summer camp currency for grandiose arsonists

    So she probably has some little shiny red thingies for the 1/1 creature tokens.
    Armory
    You are not your role. You are not how much gold you have on your account.
    You are not the mount you ride. You are not the contents of your bank.
    You are not your epic purples. You are not a special and unique snowflake.
    You are the all-grinding, all-farming crap of Azeroth.

  16. #176
    Quote Originally Posted by Ansible View Post

    So she probably has some little shiny red thingies for the 1/1 creature tokens.
    In particular, just picked up a few of this little pretty friend right here:
    ~Former Priest/Guild Wars 2 Moderator~
    Now TESTING: ArcheAge (Alpha)
    Now PLAYING: MonoRed Burn (MtG Standard)
    Twitter: @KelestiMMO come say hi!
    ~When you speak, I hear silence. Every word a defiance~

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