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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Glurp View Post
    Inc + CA DoTs on 15 targets then channel that. HNNNNNNG
    If you still have GCD to put 2 dots it will take 15 sec + so its not that good. Better to give us ability to put MF and SF to all targets in 20yd area then this.....

  2. #62
    Pit Lord Alltat's Avatar
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    As resto:

    Touch of Elune
    Basically the legendary healer meta proc in a slightly weaker form. Neat, but not overly useful if it's stuck with the current Regrowth/Touch restriction.

    Will of Malfurion
    Interesting and potentially very powerful. One second of extra post-haste duration is equivalent to five seconds worth of pre-haste duration, so if you have at least three Rejuvenations active this turns Genesis from a long-term HPS loss to a HPS gain. This talent will make Genesis worth casting any time you have 3+ rejuvs that won't overheal, along with obviously increasing its burst potential a lot.

    Might of Malorne
    Situationally useful, but those situations will probably be rare. You could use it to "munch" HoTs that are about to expire anyway, but that would be pretty clunky and just overheal most of the time. The main use would be as an emergency heal, but it's going to be a long-term HPS loss much of the time if used that way, and if you really need to cast emergency heals that often, the real problem is probably a lack of overall HPS. For any situation when this would be good, Will of Malfurion would probably be better.
    Diplomacy is just war by other means.

  3. #63
    Dreadlord Fiana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wild Cherry View Post
    Rake all the things!

    Thrash spreading Rake is so much win, I can't even put it in words.
    Quote Originally Posted by JackTheLad View Post
    Rake as AoE, hands down to your new AoE reaper.
    Behind every spell in the game there is development team that is trying to balance things.
    Every OP class causes enormous amount of whining on forums. Whining leads to nerfs.

    Anyone who believes that his character is getting a spell that will give him significant advantage over other classes is wrong.
    Every time feral did competitive dps it was nerfed. Every time feral was in top3 aoe it was nerfed. And this expansion won't be any different.
    In best case the ability will get deminishing returns based on number of monsters, in worst case rake dps will be nerfed down to the point when it will be almost no reason to use it on single target.

    I hope (and I'm pretty sure) that this spell won't see live in the way it currently is, it will bring us nothing but trouble.

  4. #64

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arielle View Post
    ........

    I'm not going to justify that with a response if your entire complaint is "stuff that bypasses armor" - and we've had all of ...... 2 of those this entire expansion? (Blood Rage and Snapping Bite) - not including Bleed effects.
    Well it's not my entire complaint, but -and u said this in ur blogs- nothing normally threatens the tank anymore regarding hits, it's usually those -what you also specifically call- tank combos, and those tank combos bypass the armor, and u always say guardians are given the middle finger in those encounters. So part of my complaint is, are u giving us more armor? if armor was beneficial against them, i'm all for it. that's part of my complaint.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Mandibleclaw View Post
    Well it's not my entire complaint, but -and u said this in ur blogs- nothing normally threatens the tank anymore regarding hits, it's usually those -what you also specifically call- tank combos, and those tank combos bypass the armor, and u always say guardians are given the middle finger in those encounters. So part of my complaint is, are u giving us more armor? if armor was beneficial against them, i'm all for it. that's part of my complaint.
    If armor affects it, we'd just take the armor. It's a pretty broken amount of armor as is, that talent in my current gear is about 28% damage reduction. Examples of attacks we'd want that for are Talon Rake, Execute, (Dread) Thrash, and just about every melee swing.

    In the cases where armor doesn't affect it... just don't take the talent. Simple as that. There's the handy talent Shield Barrier just to the side of it that fills your desires for that. Examples for that ability would be Snapping Bite. Blood rage is iffy, 10s you can easily avoid being 1-shot by it in which case just healing with FR is perfectly fine, 25s you might want shield barrier.

    I'm also not thrilled at all to have shield barrier as a talent. But that's just me not being excited about having another class's ability replace one of my own as a talent option. I'm also not that excited about a talent that's just +armor, it strikes me as something we should just have as a spec passive, especially if it has as big of an impact as it would with current #s.

  7. #67
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    Anyway just read that : "Goodbye hit and expertise. Goodbye dodge and parry. Goodbye reforging."

    the way we tank is forever gone now, gdbye dodge whore bear, let's see what they come up with now for AM.

    but, i understand u with "I'm also not thrilled at all to have shield barrier as a talent. But that's just me not being excited about having another class's ability replace one of my own as a talent option. I'm also not that excited about a talent that's just +armor", i feel the exact same. But now that dodge is out of the way -I don't rly know how to feel abt that- we'd just wait and see how the new bears will function.

    Also, "Primary stats... your gear changes when you change spec. If you have leggings on for your holy set, they will switch to strength when you go to ret. This is huge."

    Also, "set bonuses will be gone."

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Mandibleclaw View Post
    Anyway just read that : "Goodbye hit and expertise. Goodbye dodge and parry. Goodbye reforging."

    the way we tank is forever gone now, gdbye dodge whore bear, let's see what they come up with now for AM.
    While I may have missed something since I wasn't actually there and just browsing transcripts, I believe that dodge/parry are gone as a stat on armor, but that doesn't mean that being able to dodge and/or parry are gone technically. SD could technically stay the same, offering a chance to avoid attacks, but we just wouldn't have dodge rating or agility-to-dodge conversion. Heck, it could be a new stat like that Avoidance I saw, but for physical attacks.

    From the sound of things, especially if there's less emphasis on tanks avoiding attacks in general, armor could be a very powerful stat for all tanks. With how the level 100 talents have been introduced for Guardians, I think it's clear that if Guardians are still going to be designed around high armor and avoiding attacks while a boss mechanic negates both, we will actually have a method of being able to deal with such situations. I'd be more concerned about Gladiator Stance going live!... that was sarcasm, btw.

    Everything should be taken with a grain of salt, at this point in time... or maybe a salt lick. I'm more concerned about the approaching meltdown and drama in guilds concerning the Mystic difficulty, but that's another thread.
    *Since I'm tired of reposting the link:* EH vs TTL and Hybrid Tax

  9. #69
    Here's hoping feral rotation will be simplified, so that i can use my level 90 bonus for a Tauren druid.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Mandibleclaw View Post
    Also, "set bonuses will be gone."
    Where did you hear that? They said set bonuses will also change with your spec, and there will only be one tier set per class.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Mandibleclaw View Post
    Anyway just read that : "Goodbye hit and expertise. Goodbye dodge and parry. Goodbye reforging."

    the way we tank is forever gone now, gdbye dodge whore bear, let's see what they come up with now for AM.

    but, i understand u with "I'm also not thrilled at all to have shield barrier as a talent. But that's just me not being excited about having another class's ability replace one of my own as a talent option. I'm also not that excited about a talent that's just +armor", i feel the exact same. But now that dodge is out of the way -I don't rly know how to feel abt that- we'd just wait and see how the new bears will function.

    Also, "Primary stats... your gear changes when you change spec. If you have leggings on for your holy set, they will switch to strength when you go to ret. This is huge."

    Also, "set bonuses will be gone."
    Seriously open your eyes and ears. Avoidance as a stat ON GEAR is gone. You will still dodge attacks. I doubt the boss will dodge or parry you however. remains to be seen.

    Also these talents are subject to change and hopefully they will. What kind of a stupid braindead joke is sunfall? Sounds like moonbeam or wrathfire who knows.

    My main concern tbh for balance is aoe gets addressed. no one enjoys channeling hurricane for 8 sec to channel another and its frustrating when mobs move out of it as well.

    Even more important is all stats being balanced now that we can't customize it with reforging. mastery is lacking haste caps out etc. Tbh i wish haste would go and then you'd get set cast times (help for low gear levels)
    Last edited by Aboubacar; 2013-11-10 at 04:34 AM.

  12. #72
    Pretty much everything Ahanss said.

    The armor talent is really broken right now, although it's impossible to evaluate since we don't even have formulae for armor DR in the next expansion yet.

    Everything will get ironed out over the course of beta. There's going to be less mechanical changes this time around, and with only one heroic raid size to worry about it will be much easier to accurately balance each of the tank classes.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Fiana View Post
    Behind every spell in the game there is development team that is trying to balance things.
    Every OP class causes enormous amount of whining on forums. Whining leads to nerfs.

    Anyone who believes that his character is getting a spell that will give him significant advantage over other classes is wrong.
    Every time feral did competitive dps it was nerfed. Every time feral was in top3 aoe it was nerfed. And this expansion won't be any different.
    In best case the ability will get deminishing returns based on number of monsters, in worst case rake dps will be nerfed down to the point when it will be almost no reason to use it on single target.

    I hope (and I'm pretty sure) that this spell won't see live in the way it currently is, it will bring us nothing but trouble.
    I think this is ridiculous but unfortunately it is probably true.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by fappasaurus View Post
    Seriously open your eyes and ears. Avoidance as a stat ON GEAR is gone. You will still dodge attacks. I doubt the boss will dodge or parry you however. remains to be seen.
    Actually, Avoidance is a new stat that reduces AoE damage taken. On the other hand, the avoidance stats parry and dodge are indeed gone.

    Mob parry is explicitly still there, though you only have to deal with 3% when in front.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Mandibleclaw View Post
    Anyway just read that : "Goodbye hit and expertise. Goodbye dodge and parry. Goodbye reforging."

    the way we tank is forever gone now, gdbye dodge whore bear, let's see what they come up with now for AM.
    It means nothing for bears except for the 3% parry, unless you are reforging to dodge atm. It just means the other tanks will also use DPS gear for tanking. Will be cool to see how they'll make haste and crit work for them.

    As for the talents I kinda like them. SR one is really boring but if it gives less of a DPS boost than the others it's good to keep the scrubs from asking for a simpler rotation. Moonfire is nice if it's worth keeping up even in melee, and thrash is broken but a good start. Lets see how they'll be tuned.

  16. #76
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    I actually quite like the idea of Sunfall, I've wanted a Starfall analogue for Solar Eclipse for some time. In a way, it helps with the AoE problem in small groups and if we're lucky, we might get the splash damage back since it could be balanced for both Eclipses, rather than Starfall having to be hamstrung since it's one Eclipse mode only.

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rioo View Post
    It means nothing for bears except for the 3% parry, unless you are reforging to dodge atm. It just means the other tanks will also use DPS gear for tanking. Will be cool to see how they'll make haste and crit work for them.
    Actually i dunno if dodge is altogether out of the game like some of the other stats in the past but what I rly meant is that if dodge is out of the picture, we wont be the dodge tanks anymore means that our AM will be another mechanic or armor or whatever. but some people are pointing that it's only removed from gear and will stay in character sheet someway, so i dunno what's the situation now for real..

  18. #78
    Might of Malone looks nice.

  19. #79
    The Lightbringer Raugnaut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mandibleclaw View Post
    Actually i dunno if dodge is altogether out of the game like some of the other stats in the past but what I rly meant is that if dodge is out of the picture, we wont be the dodge tanks anymore means that our AM will be another mechanic or armor or whatever. but some people are pointing that it's only removed from gear and will stay in character sheet someway, so i dunno what's the situation now for real..
    Dodge is not entirely out of the game. You will, however, be unable to acquire Dodge Rating, Parry Rating, Hit Rating, and Expertise Rating on future pieces of gear- and the majority of the enchants/gems that give extra of these will be removed as well.

    Chances are, SD will give something like 30% extra dodge and 20% extra armor, or our mastery reworked to increase our active mitigation, and SD giving us 50% extra armor, or something similar. In addition, I believe that all tanks will be given a baseline amount of dodge/parry, rolled into 1 stat, avoidance- Paladins, DKs, and Warriors will have 30% avoidance, Druids, 20% avoidance, and Monks, 35-40% avoidance baseline.

    Finally, I expect to see crit+haste become more valuable for paladins, dks, and warriors. For Paladins and DKs, I would expect Crit to have a chance to give Paladins extra holy power whenever they generate it, and either have a chance for DKs to generate extra RP (Doubt this), increase the chance for T75 talents to proc (Possible), OR to have a chance to double the size of their blood shield. For Warriors, either they will generate extra rage from melee hits, OR haste will significantly reduce their GCD (Lets say 25% haste will give them a 1 sec GCD). I personally think it'll be extra rage from melee hits.
    Anyone ever notice how the sun seems to shine silverish now? Didn't it used to shine goldish? PM me if you've noticed this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moounter View Post
    I think your problem is a lack of intellect.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Raugnaut View Post
    Chances are, SD will give something like 30% extra dodge and 20% extra armor, or our mastery reworked to increase our active mitigation, and SD giving us 50% extra armor, or something similar. In addition, I believe that all tanks will be given a baseline amount of dodge/parry, rolled into 1 stat, avoidance- Paladins, DKs, and Warriors will have 30% avoidance, Druids, 20% avoidance, and Monks, 35-40% avoidance baseline.
    You might just end up getting dodge as your mastery.

    Avoidance is already taken, though. It will be AoE damage reduction and is one of the tertiary stats.

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