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  1. #101
    Scarab Lord Grubjuice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sugarfree View Post
    My fear is that Demo will be pigeonholed to getting perma Demo to be even remotely viable in PvP. Those 2.5 second shadowbolts are not even rewarding to cast!

    Demo without burst? probably not so great in PvP as you seem to expect.

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    How do we interpret the tooltip of the Demonology version of Chaotic Resources?

    Metamorphosis grants 24% additional Damage
    Master Demonologist grants base-line 24% additional Damage
    and Chaotic Resources provides '30% less increased Damage'

    is it all multiplicative? or additive? or a combination of the two?
    • [Multiplicative] ______ ((1.24*1.24-1)/ .7)+1 = 137%
    • [additive] __________ 0.24 + 0.24 - 0.3 + 1 = 118%
    • [combo-1] _________ 1.24*1.24 - .3 = 124%
    • [combo-2] _________ (0.24 + 0.24)*0.7 + 1 = 133%
    Last edited by Grubjuice; 2013-11-13 at 03:26 PM.
    .


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  2. #102
    The chaotic resources demo model may be blizz attempting to make demo pvp viable. You don't cast in pvp anymore in terms of nukes or filler spells. Not with a warlock's toolkit compared to melee. You still would obv need to cast fears but it would make demo closer to a hunter just so long as you do actual damage to people compared with being in say...DA form today which I'm pretty sure can't kill anything. It would make locks a far less attractive target for melee which would make the CLASS more attractive for people who want to try out pvp on their lock. Right now its kind of discouraging to have every melee in a battleground go straight for your cornhole and stay there till one or both of you are dead. I will say chaotic will make demo a wonderful aoe spec since you can feed a permanent immo aura but that isn't the same as aoe burst which is MF's job (or cataclysm). I don't think chaotic will work for destro....it will make execute overly strong. Aff's choice is kind of boring but it would at least work.

    I'd still like some clarification for perma DG/infernal and how that works with our grimoire choices.

  3. #103
    Grunt Alyx Vilk's Avatar
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    I guess it would act as a kind of druid form? Except for warlocks, all warlock-y. Im very curious as to the impact that the destro version will have. Also, something thats been on my mind: With the talent for perma abyssal and doomlord, will demon training +GoSac be updated to include them? Say, GoSac'ing an infernal gives a perma low damage AoE aura?

  4. #104
    Scarab Lord Grubjuice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alyx Vilk View Post
    I guess it would act as a kind of druid form? Except for warlocks, all warlock-y. Im very curious as to the impact that the destro version will have. Also, something thats been on my mind: With the talent for perma abyssal and doomlord, will demon training +GoSac be updated to include them? Say, GoSac'ing an infernal gives a perma low damage AoE aura?
    it's more likely it would give you the Infernal's AoE Stun abilitym, since GoSac usually grants you a CC-type or anti-CC-type effect.
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  5. #105
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grubjuice View Post
    it's more likely it would give you the Infernal's AoE Stun abilitym, since GoSac usually grants you a CC-type or anti-CC-type effect.
    Blizzard stated they want to reduce the amount of cc in this game, I wouldn't count on getting a cc ability from using GoSac.

  6. #106
    Scarab Lord Grubjuice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicola View Post
    Blizzard stated they want to reduce the amount of cc in this game, I wouldn't count on getting a cc ability from using GoSac.
    well, that's a valid point!
    i don't really know what they'll do
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  7. #107
    Brewmaster Xelk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rethul Ur No View Post
    Yeah, people have been begging for this guy since (at least) Kanrethad....but you're never gonna have a pet that big in a group situation. Imagine the melee tears.
    Heck, in beta the new demons were the same size as those in Outland and Blizz decided that was too big. A pit lord the size of a felhunter would just look ridiculous

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Rethul Ur No View Post
    Yeah, people have been begging for this guy since (at least) Kanrethad....but you're never gonna have a pet that big in a group situation. Imagine the melee tears.
    hunters have some pretty big pets. why can't we?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grubjuice View Post
    Demo without burst? probably not so great in PvP as you seem to expect.
    you trade burst for permanent 250% increase on armor, 35% reduction of stuns and stuff like that, instant cast shadow bolts (which means more movement) and free casting of demonic leap, carrion swarm and instant demon summoning without having to worry about meta's cooldown.

    I'd say it's a pretty good trade
    Warlorcs of Draenorc made me quit. You can't have my stuff.

  9. #109
    Right now while we have end tier % value stat budgets losing 30% off meta's damage boost is something more affordable. At say 463ilvl (heroic 5 man starter xpac ilvls) that kind of loss makes ToC more like fel flame. Obviously you can stack mastery all you like but ultimately ilvl budgets will mean its probably not as strong as you think it is at first glance. I'd expect it to feel more like playing in DA form than perma live meta.

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by checking facts View Post
    hunters have some pretty big pets. why can't we?
    There's big, and then there's Pitlord big.

  11. #111
    Scarab Lord Grubjuice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by checking facts View Post
    you trade burst for permanent 250% increase on armor, 35% reduction of stuns and stuff like that, instant cast shadow bolts (which means more movement) and free casting of demonic leap, carrion swarm and instant demon summoning without having to worry about meta's cooldown.

    I'd say it's a pretty good trade
    it's a good trade but not a mandatory one, already Demos were using Dark Apotheosis for the same purpose.

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    i wonder if dark apotheosis is being removed...????
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  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Grubjuice View Post
    it's a good trade but not a mandatory one, already Demos were using Dark Apotheosis for the same purpose.

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    i wonder if dark apotheosis is being removed...????
    DA cripples your damage. you lose both burst and a chunk of your sustained damage for DA. permeta will let you keep your sutained damage
    Warlorcs of Draenorc made me quit. You can't have my stuff.

  13. #113
    Is it me or has everyone neglected to notice that small comment about abilities getting upgraded every single level after 90 ?

  14. #114
    Scarab Lord Grubjuice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wholol View Post
    Is it me or has everyone neglected to notice that small comment about abilities getting upgraded every single level after 90 ?
    we noticed but they have not told us what they are thinking of doing, so there's really nothing to talk about yet.
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  15. #115
    Blademaster toxicrusader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aminally View Post
    I guess it's too early to speculate on numbers. They'll be changed before beta, they'll be changed during beta, and then they'll change them again when WoD hits live. Right now it seems that you'll get CB-spamming machine from Destro, nearly-infinite Meta for demo and just a tad stronger affli with this talent. Demo and destro versions of this talent oversimplify both specs (yep, and we wondered how Blizzes could make destro more mind-numbing), but numbers will be fixed.
    I'm with you. They'll most likely change all talents. I personally hate CB, and for only one reason: it's numbers. How a hard cast is praised by too many people when in real situations it can be countered, or interrupted or silenced? I hate when pleople in /g or /2 brag about how OP locks are just for CB's numbers. A mage can hit that hard in 2 casts, maybe less. And they don't have to cast it for that amount of time. I'd rather have a shot time cast for less damage, and a buff to Incinerate.

    And while we all are excited about Chaotic Resources, we're giving them a reason to change it, since they like to burn the hype for us. See that Cataclysm sounds cool, but it's utility is questionable, and Demonic Servitude still needs clafirication.

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