A victim murders a bully, does he deserve to be punished harshly?

[Willfox]

Murder = premeditated. So not a lighter punishment, just regular one, he planned to kill someone instead of avoid.

Murder =! Manslaughter

[Deleted]

Murder is murder. Get over your pathetic "waaaah i was bullied" defense.

[Stir]

Unless its personal defense, he deserves the same punishment as any other murderer.
Murder is worse than bullying, and people justifying murder are literately Stalin.

Then you do not understand the constant pressure on the victim, and the fact that such pressure may very well turn the victim insane to a point where murder becomes a very real possibility.

We, as humans, have instincts. Instincts that prevent us from harming others, absolutely. But also instincts for self-preservation in a situation of complete seclusion.

Seclusion is the state of mind typical for the victim of bullying. Because in reality, nobody ever defends the victim of bullying. Nobody stands with them. They are alone, even though they are surrounded by people, because nobody takes up their plight. Adding insult to injury, blame for bullying is usually placed with the victim rather than the bully. It is the victim who is told to 'walk away.' It is the victim who is told to 'be bigger than that.' And when those words of advice do not work, it is the victim who is blamed for not handling the situation properly.

When finally the victim defends themselves, it is the victim who crossed a line. It is the victim who chose to 'take justice into their own hands.' And of course the victim did; if nobody helps out, the victim is forced to.

It's not just a seclusion from the tribe. In effect, the tribe turns against the victim entirely. The tribe becomes the victim's enemy. A factor that threatens the very life of the victim.

We all too quickly forget that humans are beasts. We are primal, fierce, protective animals covered with a thin veneer of civilization. And if you keep kicking a dog, you shouldn't be surprised if one day, that dog tries to tear your throat out. Humans are no different from dogs.

[Deleted]

Objectively, he deserves to be punished accordingly after taking all extenuating/aggravating circumstances into consideration.
Defending yourself against a bully is fine, but he clearly overstepped the mark.

That said, on a personal level, I don't feel any pity for the bully and don't think that it's a loss for society as a whole.

[TEHPALLYTANK]

Why is your signature an anime women pleasing herself? WTF!?

Blood spatters+heavy breathing=masturbating? In what world does that make any sense.

[Stir]

Blood spatters+heavy breathing=masturbating? In what world does that make any sense.

It certainly is a very disturbed world. After all; it has to be, when getting shot is the height of sexual pleasure.

[Elite Peon]

No he does not because it is in the same manner a rape victim should not be punished if she injured her attacker or an abused wife should not be punished for ending her torment . If you think that torture and bullying are ok well ....hope you have a nice ending ....primary the worst horrific death from cancer possible .

[Memory]

Then you do not understand the constant pressure on the victim, and the fact that such pressure may very well turn the victim insane to a point where murder becomes a very real possibility.

That's something that the judge will consider: criminal law does take this kind of things into account. But it doesn't mean that the murder would not be prosecuted as murder. It's not self-defense like somebody said, self-defense is something else.

Humans are no different from dogs.

They are different.

[Stir]

That's something that the judge will consider: criminal law does take this kind of things into account. But it doesn't mean that the murder would not be prosecuted as murder. It's not self-defense like somebody said, self-defense is something else.

I actually said that he should get reduced sentence on the basis of temporary insanity.

But he shouldn't stand trial for murder, though. Murder requires premeditation. In the case presented, we have a temporary insanity case, and the verdict should be manslaughter.
We can make it a self-defense case with excessive use of force IF the killing happened during a physical interaction instegated by the bully.

[GreatOak]

If the bully is murdered and not Killed in self defense then the person who killed
The bully deserves the same punishment as any other murderer. It's never justified and I'm comfortable in asserting that as a universal truth, at least from my point of view.

[Doomaz]

fuck bullies, its kinda his own fault. i hope more of those ppl would get shot by their victims

[Memory]

I actually said that he should get reduced sentence on the basis of temporary insanity.

But he shouldn't stand trial for murder, though. Murder requires premeditation. In the case presented, we have a temporary insanity case, and the verdict should be manslaughter.
We can make it a self-defense case with excessive use of force IF the killing happened during a physical interaction instegated by the bully.

Yeah, I wasn't talking of the strict legal term 'murder'. I didn't assume I was talking with anglosaxon people, I guess. Some legal systems have one word for both 'murder' and 'manslaughter' (of course while distinguishing the two kinds on the level of culpability; but still one word, different attributes). So, yes, you're right, it might be manslaughter, although voluntary.

[Deleted]

Unemployd man gets pushed around by working people. Unemployd man asks for help through taxation. Goverment dosn't bother to raise the taxes. Unemployd man finally snaps and kill working people. Should he be let go with an easy punishment? What you answer on this and the first post esentially comes down to your political view

[Deleted]

The murderer deserves the same penalty any murder gets. Unless they successfully use an insanity defense.

Being bullied by someone for an extended period of time should/will be at least an extenuating circumstance for most judges.

[Atrea]

Think about what you are suggesting for a moment.

Kid A teases kid B. Relentlessly. Then kid B decides to kill kid A in cold blood.
And kid B is the monster?

What household plant have you been smoking?

Seriously. Teasing someone deserves the death penalty?

I think you're just trying to justify your own ill wishes on someone who teases you, because you realize that what you are feeling towards them is pretty fucked up, but you want us to convince you it's somehow normal.

Well it isn't.

[Ejmis]

Ofcourse -_- A murder is a murder, taking someones life as much as they might deserve it is just plain wrong.

[Atrea]

We all too quickly forget that humans are beasts. We are primal, fierce, protective animals covered with a thin veneer of civilization. And if you keep kicking a dog, you shouldn't be surprised if one day, that dog tries to tear your throat out. Humans are no different from dogs.

We are quite different from dogs. We are capable of reason.
We are capable of self-awareness (there are only a handful of animals in the animal kingdom who MIGHT be self-aware; dogs are not among them.)

While it is understood that our psyches have their limits, it is also understood that we are responsible (under nearly all circumstances) for our own actions, and that an action like murder involves a conscious choice. (As opposed to blinking your eyes when someone puts a finger near them, which is done on an almost instinctive level.)

So while you are right -- we shouldn't be surprised if a dog turns on you if you abuse it -- a human being is capable of understanding the difference between right and wrong, and is able to fully understand the concept of other people. And so that is a really poor comparison you are trying to make, and your reasons for doing so are dubious at best.

[Deleted]

It would be in self-defense, totally justified.

Yea when defending against a physical attack, it's not a crime and all charges should be dropped. It's no different than killing a kidnapper, rapist, someone who just attacks you on the street or breaks into your home.

Obviously there are still limits though. If you kill the bully during self defense it's acceptable but if you continue stabbing him with a knife when he or she has already been neutralized and not a threat it's still murder... or if you kill preemptively because he or she has attacked before and might do it again.

[Stir]

We are quite different from dogs. We are capable of reason.
We are capable of self-awareness (there are only a handful of animals in the animal kingdom who MIGHT be self-aware; dogs are not among them.)

There's quite a lot of animals who are self aware. All you need for that is rudimentary thinking. Any creature with a brain has awareness of self. And the mirror test proves (a type and level of) intelligence; not self-awareness.

While it is understood that our psyches have their limits, it is also understood that we are responsible (under nearly all circumstances) for our own actions, and that an action like murder involves a conscious choice. (As opposed to blinking your eyes when someone puts a finger near them, which is done on an almost instinctive level.)

Consciousness is just the instincts that we think about. Don't presume it's some kind of magic key to superiority.

So while you are right -- we shouldn't be surprised if a dog turns on you if you abuse it -- a human being is capable of understanding the difference between right and wrong, and is able to fully understand the concept of other people. And so that is a really poor comparison you are trying to make, and your reasons for doing so are dubious at best.

And that's where we disagree. Let's just say I've been there. I've been the dog that bit.

[Deleted]

The only time when it's absolutely righteous to kill someone is when they've already killed you. That's just a bit tricky most of the time. This is why, for example, death penalties are quite simply put lawful murder, or rather, slaughter.

If you kill someone in defense of yourself, and that someone was trying to kill you, it's still not absolutely righteous. Having said that, this is one of the few absolutely accepted cases.

If you kill someone because that someone hurt you physically or mentally, then it's murder. Period. This applies to people "avenging" their loved ones. See the first point.