Page 2 of 14 FirstFirst
1
2
3
4
12
... LastLast
  1. #21
    why would he want to get rid of the warlock changes that happened this expansion? I've been playing a lock for a long time and i know taste is subjective but, these changes that happened in mist for locks have made the class so much more enjoyable and fun. demo is awesome right now, with demonic calling, imp swarm, and the metamorphosis change making that spec feel like we really are demonology specialists.

    how about they just work on fixing the horrible health costs for many of those talents we have that do not have a good enough boost/bonus for the amount of health we have to sacrifice?

  2. #22
    I am Murloc! ringpriest's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    United States of Fear
    Posts
    5,093
    Quote Originally Posted by demonik View Post
    why would he want to get rid of the warlock changes that happened this expansion? I've been playing a lock for a long time and i know taste is subjective but, these changes that happened in mist for locks have made the class so much more enjoyable and fun. demo is awesome right now, with demonic calling, imp swarm, and the metamorphosis change making that spec feel like we really are demonology specialists.

    how about they just work on fixing the horrible health costs for many of those talents we have that do not have a good enough boost/bonus for the amount of health we have to sacrifice?
    Not invented here syndrome. It's pretty obviously been rabidly rampant in the WoW dev team since Wrath.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by ringpriest View Post
    Not invented here syndrome. It's pretty obviously been rabidly rampant in the WoW dev team since Wrath.
    Shit went downhill when they fired Xelnath, we miss you dude!
    http://i5.minus.com/iT9gBOC94PbmU.jpg
    NON SINE DIIS ANIMOSUS INFANS
    Quote Originally Posted by PRE 9-11 View Post
    Accessibility, ownership, availability; these are all essentially the same thing.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Nobleshield View Post
    Speaking as a Faillock myself, I'd be happy to not have DoT snapshotting. I felt like I was spending the entire fight watching DoT timers and Affdots, and that isn't much fun.
    Did you feel the same in older expansions? (presuming you played a warlock then).

    It used to be a minor dps increase, you did it if you were good enough / could be bothered / didn't lose more dps by trying to track your procs than you did by just focusing more. It was neat then.

    I can sympathise with not liking it when it's became a huge damage gap like it currently is, but I really don't think that's the dot snapshot mechanics fault - just a side effect of terrible trinket design and ilevel inflation, plus affdots bringing it to the foreground so everyone, even players that might not have tried to minmax to that extent before, suddenly become aware of a way to eek out some more damage and feel obliged to (not that that isn't admirable, but hopefully you get my point).

    I just worry I'll be left feeling like I did with destro recently - it's just so un-engaging for me. Affliction is the only thing that gets me going when I play it, and even that I feel is less fun than it was in prior expansions, despite the engaging mechanic that remains being a bigger number increase than before.

    Quote Originally Posted by demonik View Post
    why would he want to get rid of the warlock changes that happened this expansion?
    Because he doesn't like them and a lot of the changes have caused huge problems (see, destro and demo being completely broken-OP in pvp on launch, affliction being broken in completely different ways).

    I feel the same way, the changes (at least to affliction) were completely unnecesary and unenjoyable. The soulshard system was improved, since affliction barely used it in Cata, but there were huge changes to the core gameplay that simply wasn't needed, iirc GC even called affliction one of the most polished feeling specs during Cata, though I'd never be able to find where that was said or if I imagined it.
    This expansion affliction has been completely unbalanced in PVE for a variety of reasons, still had completely OP multidotting, despite them forcing MG onto us to "fix" that by baking our dot damage into single target focus, was a disaster in pvp for a long time etc, and don't get me started on our old max level talent tier, HOW someone could design that mess is beyond me, it's still iffy.

    Destro I felt was improved, though is lacking something since ROF was removed, needs 1 more rotational element, be it a spell or mechanic to deal with.

    Demo I'm not sure how I feel. I personally prefered it pre-meta where the focus seemed to be getting a better pet, but I think I'm the oddball here and most people love turning into a demon, so I'd say that was a good change despite having my issues with it.
    Last edited by Nagassh; 2013-11-10 at 01:27 AM.

  5. #25
    as a demo lock I welcome the death of dot snapshotting. UVLS was my worst nightmare. I don't like addons, so I had to keep my eyes fixated on the buffs corner while somehow paying attention to the floor in order not to stand in the fire, and react to a 2 seconds frame when the trinket would proc in order to hit metamorphosis and doom.

    it was far too hard, awkward and annoying.

    now someone might say "oh, just grab weakauras or *insert mighty morphin warlock ranger addon here*". I say this: the game should be perfectly playable without addons.
    Warlorcs of Draenorc made me quit. You can't have my stuff.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by varren View Post
    Aff goes from highest skill cap spec to lowest skill cap spec with one change lol. Probably needed to happen though DoT snap shotting is what made Aff OP in the first place.
    It's what the spec is all about. Arguably the entire class. Complete bullshit to do such a thing. Ruins so much fun gameplay. Just like how they ruined Spriests and Boomkins this expansion already by making multidotting something you do mainly to get procs.

  7. #27
    Who cares about min maxing your char, or your play style? Or dumbing down the game to a ridicolous level? You can build a garrison! And if you find irony, you can give it to the Devs.
    Last edited by Apero; 2013-11-10 at 01:51 AM.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by checking facts View Post
    now someone might say "oh, just grab weakauras or *insert mighty morphin warlock ranger addon here*". I say this: the game should be perfectly playable without addons.
    Playable? yes. Perfectly playable? no.

    Raiding has meant using addons for a good while now, this is no longer the good old days when using the basic UI was perfectly acceptable, and more importantly, something Blizz designed around. We're past that, Blizz designs raid encounters and raid gear (trinkets/tier bonuses/etc.) around the assumption that if you are invested in raiding you will be using addons. They still make encounters in a way that someone can do the encounters in a basic way without too much outside help, but don't expect or demand to be able to do everything in this edge pushing part of the game in a basic UI without help from addons.
    Your Soul Shall Suffer! ||| Forum rules ||| New England Patriots

  9. #29
    High Overlord Typhoneus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    134
    Quote Originally Posted by lockedout View Post
    Shit went downhill when they fired Xelnath, we miss you dude!
    Can I ask, was Xelnath the dude that came up with the current iterations of the class? I rolled Warlock as my new main in Mists, and absolutely loved it, and learned it was completely different from previous expansions. Was it Xelnath that made them as such? And, why was he fired? I realise there's only rumour and hearsay, but what's the generally "accepted" answers?

  10. #30
    Removing dot snapshotting for a spec like aff or to a lesser extent demo, is the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

    Specially aff with no other changes will be completely mind numbing:

    1. don't let dots fall
    2. use haunt on procs
    3. gg

    Also it makes pandemic almost irrelevant

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by checking facts View Post
    as a demo lock I welcome the death of dot snapshotting. UVLS was my worst nightmare. I don't like addons, so I had to keep my eyes fixated on the buffs corner while somehow paying attention to the floor in order not to stand in the fire, and react to a 2 seconds frame when the trinket would proc in order to hit metamorphosis and doom.

    it was far too hard, awkward and annoying.

    now someone might say "oh, just grab weakauras or *insert mighty morphin warlock ranger addon here*". I say this: the game should be perfectly playable without addons.
    The game is playable without addons FYI, or at least it was until T16 (with 10s duration trinket instead of 20s, you'd become a bit less effective). UVLS was only a special case because of its extremely short duration. If you are really against using addons, you just have to get used to regularly look at a corner of your screen (every 2-3s, like you would do if you place any kind of RTS, when regularly at minimap and ressources, or even a MOBA). It is nothing special, it is about improving your multi tasking skills. Warlocks have historically needed more of this than any class.

    It is horrible that since WOTLK Blizz has been removing some multi-tasking the class had. It started from preventing us to apply UA and Immolate at same time and suppressing siphon life as a DOT when Ulduar was released because people complained there was too much stuff to handle. Then they shifted away our ability to friendly dispell from FH to Imp, reducing awarness needed in PVP. They made the Improved Soulfire mechanic unavailable to Affliction during T11, one again simplifying gameplay. And now they are going to bring us to TBC level when it comes to DoT managment (i.e. 0 needed).

    Think as if you were casting Chaos Bolt with proc, and mid cast they fall off, resulting in your Chaos Bolt hitting like a wet noodle instead of hitting like a truck. How clunky and illogical would it be ? That's how Affli will be once DOTs don't snapshot anymore. DOTs should be looked at like a single spell, thus it is fully logical that they keep the same stats as they were casted with until they fall off.

    The game should not be balanced around people that aren't trying, or that voluntarily impair themselves because they are not good enough to play without addons but refuse to use them. Warlock are only OP at close to optimal or optimal level of play. If that is a problem, give other classes a similar skill cap and a similar power increase as the skill of the player gets better, but don't dumb Warlocks down.
    Last edited by Sethesh; 2013-11-10 at 02:05 AM.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Typhoneus View Post
    Can I ask, was Xelnath the dude that came up with the current iterations of the class? I rolled Warlock as my new main in Mists, and absolutely loved it, and learned it was completely different from previous expansions. Was it Xelnath that made them as such? And, why was he fired? I realise there's only rumour and hearsay, but what's the generally "accepted" answers?
    He was the "head" of the warlock revamp, but it was a team effort. Hard to say how much Xelnath is really responsible for, since he's mentioned himself that he had a wide array of ideas for demonology without meta and with more of a play on summoning pets etc, it went through a lot of itterations (some of them sounding terrible) that were partially due to the team reigning him in or the people with more mechanical knowledge just saying shit won't work. He also said the numbers guys often told him things would be problematic.

    He was fired because he seemed to;
    a) Be having a lot of friction with the team, trying to push his own agenda when they didn't feel things would work, the Cataclysm spell was what he was trying to push at the time, and it was a pretty terrible idea that didn't fix the problem he was trying to at the time (lack of peels in pvp).
    b) He was pretty vocal and talkative with the warlock community on MMO champ, he was great at giving off the vibe of being "one of the guys" and trying to do his best to make warlocks great, unfortunately he was also a bit too openly critical about what HE wanted and when he disagreed with the team / was unhappy with a decision the team made.

    The result of the two was him leaving the company.

    Can't say I think he was as big a loss as some of the warlocks around here act like he was, he definitely had great community interaction and made you feel like he was trying to make warlocks good after feeling pretty neglected, but the ideas that were his and he really pushed (Cataclysm) was pretty terrible, and MOP launched with a huge array of problems with warlocks - chaos bolt in pvp, chaos wave crits in pvp, affliction being terrible in pvp, but has been overtuned in pve all expansion, Blood Fear (he thought was a defensive CD, anyone with a clue about pvp wouldn't), our entire final tier of talents was a disaster etc

    Hard to tell how much of the good and bad was his and how much was from the team though, so who knows. He was a cool guy though, as slagging-off as my post might sound, I've no doubt he was trying his best to improve the class, but I think he either didn't listen to some of the numbers guys enough or didn't quite have as much pvp knowledge as would have been ideal considering some of the choices made that the team has slowly been cleaning up since he left the company, and some that still persist now.

  13. #33
    Blademaster Zaee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    32
    Quote Originally Posted by Nagassh View Post
    He was the "head" of the warlock revamp, but it was a team effort. Hard to say how much Xelnath is really responsible for, since he's mentioned himself that he had a wide array of ideas for demonology without meta and with more of a play on summoning pets etc, it went through a lot of itterations (some of them sounding terrible) that were partially due to the team reigning him in or the people with more mechanical knowledge just saying shit won't work. He also said the numbers guys often told him things would be problematic.

    He was fired because he seemed to;
    a) Be having a lot of friction with the team, trying to push his own agenda when they didn't feel things would work, the Cataclysm spell was what he was trying to push at the time, and it was a pretty terrible idea that didn't fix the problem he was trying to at the time (lack of peels in pvp).
    b) He was pretty vocal and talkative with the warlock community on MMO champ, he was great at giving off the vibe of being "one of the guys" and trying to do his best to make warlocks great, unfortunately he was also a bit too openly critical about what HE wanted and when he disagreed with the team / was unhappy with a decision the team made.

    The result of the two was him leaving the company.

    Can't say I think he was as big a loss as some of the warlocks around here act like he was, he definitely had great community interaction and made you feel like he was trying to make warlocks good after feeling pretty neglected, but the ideas that were his and he really pushed (Cataclysm) was pretty terrible, and MOP launched with a huge array of problems with warlocks - chaos bolt in pvp, chaos wave crits in pvp, affliction being terrible in pvp, but has been overtuned in pve all expansion, Blood Fear (he thought was a defensive CD, anyone with a clue about pvp wouldn't), our entire final tier of talents was a disaster etc

    Hard to tell how much of the good and bad was his and how much was from the team though, so who knows. He was a cool guy though, as slagging-off as my post might sound, I've no doubt he was trying his best to improve the class, but I think he either didn't listen to some of the numbers guys enough or didn't quite have as much pvp knowledge as would have been ideal considering some of the choices made that the team has slowly been cleaning up since he left the company, and some that still persist now.
    Considering the amount of awesome Xelnath now does for League of Legends at Riot.. i think it's fairly obvious how much of his input was actually used. Also the original cataclysm was supposed to be a huge stun iirc not the currrent iteration we will be seeing in WoD. All i will say on it but he was an AWESOME dev.

    Sadly, i do enjoy most of the Lock changes we got in MoP (all specs were top dps at some point, Green Fire, Chaos Bolt hitting hard again, stam buff baked into DI, Dark Soul changes, Destro/Demo resources, pvp viability in all three specs across the xpac, talents: yes even the original broken ones, Gateway..). It was a rollercoaster ride of an xpac as a lock but it was cool. I did not like the changes made to Affliction at all though, since i miss Cata Afflic or the over simplification of Destro: going from 17 buttons to 5 is too much even if it was for the better of the spec. The 5.4 nerfs to Demo and Imps was also incredibly annoying considering the double-dipped nerf to UVLS as well. Also the removal of our 15% dmg reduction from Fel Armor was quite annoying in pvp, Unbound Will felt useless the entire xpac. Unfortunately, it's looking like we will see more turbulent changes too, but i'll stick with it since i have seen it at worse.
    Last edited by Zaee; 2013-11-10 at 02:56 AM.

  14. #34
    High Overlord Typhoneus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    134
    Thanks guys, both posts really helpful

  15. #35
    The only reason Xelnath was fired was because he disclosed information that wasn't on PTR yet (Chaos Bolt nerf/change). His lack of PvP knowledge and problems with his team had no impact on the lifespan of his contract from what I understood. I don't think that they would've gotten rid of him had he not done that
    Melee vs caster balance in WoD: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9F0Ehgx_Q8

  16. #36
    Epic! Naztrak's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Nagrand Arena
    Posts
    1,532
    If it brings back actual dot casting and kills SB:SS I will merry that guy.
    Last edited by Naztrak; 2013-11-10 at 09:25 AM.
    PvE is a minigame // Rerolled from affly to spriest after 8 years, thx pandaland changes

  17. #37
    need RNG to have istant cast like ALL casters... need istant ability... why cataclysm with long cast time???

    I can't cast an immolate in PVP vs melee...

  18. #38
    Epic! Naztrak's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Nagrand Arena
    Posts
    1,532
    I can't cast an immolate in PVP vs melee...
    you are most definitely doing something very very wrong
    PvE is a minigame // Rerolled from affly to spriest after 8 years, thx pandaland changes

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Naztrak View Post
    you are most definitely doing something very very wrong
    is an hyperbole, under melee pressure a caster can't cast a spell with biblic cast time like cataclysm. I hope in a istant cast (and lowered damage/give "bonus" like disorient effect)

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Naztrak View Post
    you are most definitely doing something very very wrong
    He isn't entirely wrong though. Our current hard-casting PvP isn't really doing it. Add to that the KJC Nerf which makes the 90 Talent basically just a glyph/baseline effect for others and you got yourself up for frustration as Destruction.

    I miss Soul Burn: Soul Fire. I also miss my Soul Shards (hate Embers and the entire firework it makes out of my char). And DoTs are missing entirely from Destruction.

    All in all this 'rework' is pretty terrible compared to what it was before. Sure, it's easier and streamlined now, but it doesn't really have the soul of what Warlocks used to be for Classic and 3 expansions. With all the reworks then, we still retained the core of what we were. Funny enough most other classes do retain themselves, even with a lot of variety added to their playstyles. We are the odd-ones out. Again. At least to a certain degree.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •