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  1. #41
    I am sorry OP but ur idea is horrible and deleting both and starting new 20 man is perfect idea. It will up the competition, bring life to raiding.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by CTwin View Post
    Do you seriously think that anything you say is going to make a difference to Blizzard?

    Watching Blizzcon, they knew this shitstorm was coming. They have clear answers and a clear reasoning why they went this way. Even if every single 10m heroic guild quit tomorrow - the movement in Subs is absolutely irrelevant compared to the retainment they are going to get with the new life that raiding is being refreshed with.

    If all the 10 man HC guilds quit who exactly are they designing this content for? The 2-3k players that will continue raiding or do you believe that everyone else will suddenly jump into raiding? That will surely be a good use of their resources.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Coavinses View Post
    If all the 10 man HC guilds quit
    You know possible 5% might end up quitting anyway? And 1 size making mythic raiding more prestige will get more people commited, not to mention improving raiding experience for everyone else raiding

  4. #44
    Would of much preferred 15mans, but Blizzard seems content on sticking to 20. I've gone down from 40 mans to 25 mans and down to 10 mans. There was some drama, some people who didn't care, but in the end we did not have to recruit anyone initially. Especially not a whole raid team's worth. Current 10 man guilds need roughly 10-15 people MORE, and that is if EVERYONE stayed depending if they use subs or not. I'd rather drop 10 than recruit 10. It's going to be a real mess in the short term as guilds merge/disband and people search for new recruits or homes themselves. I agree with Blizzard in that at least the long run this is for the best, it allows them one mode to tune for the hardest content and allows for more mechanics that 10 man cannot properly utilize. That said, great news on the new "flex(normal)" and "normal(heroic)" modes allowing for 10-25 flex. I can only imagine both modes will get a decent amount of use.
    I tend to post primarily in Recent Forum Posts from the main page.
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  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluesftw View Post
    20 man mythic is fantastic solution , accept it and move on
    yep. best thing that will ever happen to the game so looking forward to it.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by ramennoodleking View Post
    I agree its best for the game, with the caveat that it will lead to awful carnage in the wake of having to add 10-12 more heroic quality raiders to your roster.
    Yes, this Blizz is making this change with its eye on the long term. There will be some growing pains when 10 man guilds have to recruit to get to 20 man, but in the long haul having 1 size at the highest difficulty evens the playing field and makes the content easier to balance since they dont have to worry about 2 different raid sizes and formats. Will it hurt in the short term? Yes, but the serious world first guilds will not have much trouble down the line.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Sills View Post
    Yes, this Blizz is making this change with its eye on the long term. There will be some growing pains when 10 man guilds have to recruit to get to 20 man, but in the long haul having 1 size at the highest difficulty evens the playing field and makes the content easier to balance since they dont have to worry about 2 different raid sizes and formats. Will it hurt in the short term? Yes, but the serious world first guilds will not have much trouble down the line.
    A long term plan that destroys short term prospects rarely works out. This isn't something people to have to grit their teeth and work through, they can quite easily just stop and move on. At the end of the day it's something 'fun' to do and nothing more.

  8. #48
    I don't know who "alot of people" are, but I think its a good change. No need to find a solution for it.

  9. #49
    Titan MerinPally's Avatar
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    You will adapt, and if you don't adapt you will die. If you choose to die that is YOUR FAULT and YOUR PROBLEM. It is not something that requires a solution because you have a soluton, you just don't like the solution so refuse to take it. Repeat - YOUR problem.

    For every guild that refuses to adapt, do you really think that every last raid member will quit? I will tell you now that is stupid, you know they won't. Some might but then some will join a guild that does try to adapt, and then they will get people from multiple sources, and then the dissolution of a couple of stubborn pajeros will help a guild who wants to move with the times.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valarius View Post
    Oh shut the fuck up you spack cunt.

  10. #50
    If this change allows them to make better and more challenging encounters without the mechanical limitations imposed by trying to balance it around 10-mans, then it's a huge step up.

    Let's just hope they don't drop the ball on that.

  11. #51
    Its never going to stop because their are too many rejects that actually think the two can be compared. 25 is harder than 10, period. Its not up for discussion, its not a point of view, not subject to interpretation, its a fact. If you want to keep 10 man alive, yield that fact. 20 man mythic confirms it. The 25's are forced to bench the slackers, but for all intensive purposes its the same thing as 25 man. 10 man wasnt even recognized, there isn't a 15 man mythic, there isnt a 12 man mythic. Its 25 man minus the slackers. REST IN PEACE 10 MAN FORUM HEROES. Time to learn what actual min maxing is, time to learn how to properly manage cd's, time to learn what actual coordination is all about. If you've been raiding 10's, you have no idea what any of those things actually are, and if you disagree, you're in for a reality check.

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  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by CTwin View Post
    lol.

    so much nope.

    Reminder - 1760 guilds killed Hc Lei Shen. Even now with the buff.

    Less than 20,000 people. Of which maybe 30% at best will leave?

    Man, the amount of fucks that no-one is going to give.
    well i am not entirely sure you understand the change.
    supposing you do, that number is completely uninteresting, the number you should look at is all those guild who got 2-+ bosses down in tot pre-patch.
    however as i said you probably don't understand it and after having to read the 50+ posts of people who don't understand i will try my best to explain it as clearly as possible.
    5.4 Normal = 6.0 normal, or in their vernacular heroic.
    5.4 Heroic = 6.0 Mythic.
    Quote Originally Posted by Libertarian View Post
    nice picture, very graphic.
    https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/sta...99535470395392 - confirms its just a name change.
    and finally common sense, about 1% kill the end boss of an instance in HC when its current, a harder mode on top would have a completion rate of between .1% and .01% - in other words Nobody.
    Last edited by goblinpaladin; 2013-11-10 at 01:50 PM.

  13. #53
    They should have told us about such change way before the last content patch. 5.0 would be the perfect time to say that in 6.0 you wan't be able to raid in 10m format. It looks like they just don't realize how hard it is for 10m guilds to convert to a 20m guild.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Einsz View Post
    You know possible 5% might end up quitting anyway? And 1 size making mythic raiding more prestige will get more people commited, not to mention improving raiding experience for everyone else raiding
    I can pull numbers out of my ass as well. It will affect a lot more than 5%. Raiding better for whom? The LFR heroes who are struggling now that most raiders have stopped going into LFR and just started doing flex instead? The only people that care about 'prestige' are people that would never do HC raiding anyway. They're far more interested in sitting around the forums smacktalking.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Oriana View Post
    They should have told us about such change way before the last content patch. 5.0 would be the perfect time to say that in 6.0 you wan't be able to raid in 10m format. It looks like they just don't realize how hard it is for 10m guilds to convert to a 20m guild.
    More like they just don't care what effect it will have on 10s, and think we only raid 10s because we can't recruit enough players to do their sacred 25-mans (the concept that people actually prefer 10s for a number of other reasons seems hard to grasp).

    As anyone doing 10 heroics is such a small minority they probably don't give a toss, and are focusing most on their time on the new flex and flex normal modes. Don't get me wrong, I totally love the idea of flex normals and I liked the addition of current flex - scaling normals would have been amazing for allowing me to keep a 10-man group running but allowing my bench to actually get to raid; I was already planning to invite a couple of friends and run around a 14-15 man roster if it happened. I do however get the feeling that the new anti-scale heroic mode was prob just tacked in as an afterthought, and it's just way easier/cheaper for them to only balance one heroic raid format.

    Either that or its some PR bullshit where in a month they announce that they've listened to our feedback and they're going to change it, like the realID forums fiasco. But yeah, not getting my hopes up with that. It does seem a bit odd that they just seem...so out of touch with the 10-man raiding community though.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Coavinses View Post
    I can pull numbers out of my ass as well. It will affect a lot more than 5%. Raiding better for whom? The LFR heroes who are struggling now that most raiders have stopped going into LFR and just started doing flex instead? The only people that care about 'prestige' are people that would never do HC raiding anyway. They're far more interested in sitting around the forums smacktalking.
    It will be better for everyone since there wont be million different races, 25 man guilds wont struggle anymore to recruit players since the community got lazy and prefers running 10 man. Mechanics will be more intresting because blizzard is unable to use some due to 10 man setup limitations.

    Stop crying, start recruiting. Or actually you can cry since I feed of the 10 man players tears.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Einsz View Post
    It will be better for everyone since there wont be million different races, 25 man guilds wont struggle anymore to recruit players since the community got lazy and prefers running 10 man. Mechanics will be more intresting because blizzard is unable to use some due to 10 man setup limitations.

    Stop crying, start recruiting. Or actually you can cry since I feed of the 10 man players tears.
    Who cares about the races? The forum warriors and the people losing to Paragon after tooting about how great they are.

    25 mans struggle because people detest it. Unless you're at the very top in 25 man raiding the number of idiots you have to put up with is hilarious.

    Mechanics more interesting? Please do give me these amazing mechanics. The core mechanics will continue to remain the same. Don't stand in shit. DPS the correct mob. Don't die. Whether you need to sheep something halfway through or not does not make it interesting. In fact, after a while, if on farm, the extra mechanics simply get tiresome and annoying or just completely ignored.

  18. #58
    Pit Lord Azgraal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wycked View Post
    Its never going to stop because their are too many rejects that actually think the two can be compared. 25 is harder than 10, period. Its not up for discussion, its not a point of view, not subject to interpretation, its a fact. If you want to keep 10 man alive, yield that fact. 20 man mythic confirms it. The 25's are forced to bench the slackers, but for all intensive purposes its the same thing as 25 man. 10 man wasnt even recognized, there isn't a 15 man mythic, there isnt a 12 man mythic. Its 25 man minus the slackers. REST IN PEACE 10 MAN FORUM HEROES. Time to learn what actual min maxing is, time to learn how to properly manage cd's, time to learn what actual coordination is all about. If you've been raiding 10's, you have no idea what any of those things actually are, and if you disagree, you're in for a reality check.

    -wycked
    Your "facts" lack a lot of... factual points...

    How about this for a reality check? It's always those people who think theyre absolutely better than anyone else but don't present any proof of it that pick up the Heroic 25man raider mantle to complain on forums about how easy 10mans/the game are/is and how they're the cream of the elite.

    Sad.
    Last edited by Azgraal; 2013-11-10 at 03:31 PM.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Coavinses View Post
    Who cares about the races? The forum warriors and the people losing to Paragon after tooting about how great they are.
    Which again are 10 man crybabies crying about losing, crying about having to go 20 man, crying literally about everything

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by ViridianWRA View Post
    How about they just don't fix what isn't broken and revoke these horrible, retarded raid changes.
    Actually they stated that the tuning was constantly broken between the 2 difficulties and that's why they wanted to focus on sole difficulty setting in order to make the timewaste smaller (paraphrased).
    You can try to fit me in a box, only to see me burst out of it.

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