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  1. #1

    Am I the only one who thinks this is just smoke and mirrors?

    I am a beta player, and have leveled all 11 classes to 90. I love this game, have hated it at times, but I am still here. Yes I will admit I have been hanging on by a string lately but I want to try and take the emotion out for a second and look at the facts. I own every CE edition that has been released and each one has had strong selling points. So lets look at WoD and it's so called selling points vs standard and evolving upgrades to the game, i.e "patch feeling content"

    1. Garrisons- Selling point, personally think it's kinda of cool.
    2. Item squish- Patch content
    3. LvL Cap to 100- Can be argued as both, as it is expected with any expansion, not really a "new" selling point.
    4. New Race models- uuuummm honestly in my opinion it's patch content not a selling point.
    5. Stat, Gear, Profession changes-Patch content.
    6. New world- Selling point and maybe patch content undertones, as expected new Art and zones.
    7. New Raids/Raiding changes- Feels like patch content.

    So when you look at the facts you can argue we are going to be paying 40-100$ for Garrisons, new level Cap and a New World? To me that seems very underwhelming as an Expansion and more like a glorified Large Scale Patch. Looking at the WoW history we normally pay for new races and or classes.

    Now this is NOT another screw Blizz Thread, I WANT all of you to step back, remove emotion (well attempt) and look at it from a "What am I truly spending my money on angle"

    I am hoping you can all help me make sense of this whole thing as the more I look at it the more im like ....seriously? WTF.
    Last edited by Barefoot; 2013-11-09 at 10:36 PM. Reason: Added #7

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Barefoot View Post
    I am hoping you can all help me make sense of this whole thing as the more I look at it the more im like ....seriously? WTF.

    One of us can't help you make sense of how you personally feel about the game.

    That being said, it seems underwhelming to me because there are no new races, no new class, and no new starting areas. Without that there, there is bound to be a lacking feeling. This is just a hit we're going to have to take this expansion to have new player models.

    Lack of end game content and new world in Cata was the hit we took when we got all the old zones revamped.

    There has to be give and take, I guess.

  3. #3
    You will be paying 40 bucks for the new expansion to do the new content, the new leveling system, the new raids and dungeons system, experience the new talent system, the new cleaned up back system, the new character models, the new player housing, the new lore. A new race and class is sometimes nice, but we have 11 classes, do we need more. Same for the races. I am much happier that my orc hunter will look better than getting a new race. If you dont find this new expansion to be exciting, you are not required to get it. But remember, it is very early, they have not announced EVERYTHING we will be getting Blizzard has things they are working on that will be introduced later on into 6.0

  4. #4
    Brewmaster ramennoodleking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barefoot View Post
    I am a beta player, and have leveled all 11 classes to 90. I love this game, have hated it at times, but I am still here. Yes I will admit I have been hanging on by a string lately but I want to try and take the emotion out for a second and look at the facts. I own every CE edition that has been released and each one has had strong selling points. So lets look at WoD and it's so called selling points vs standard and evolving upgrades to the game, i.e "patch feeling content"

    1. Garrisons- Selling point, personally think it's kinda of cool.
    2. Item squish- Patch content
    3. LvL Cap to 100- Can be argued as both, as it is expected with any expansion, not really a "new" selling point.
    4. New Race models- uuuummm honestly in my opinion it's patch content not a selling point.
    5. Stat, Gear, Profession changes-Patch content.
    6. New world- Selling point and maybe patch content undertones, as expected new Art and zones.

    So when you look at the facts you can argue we are going to be paying 40-100$ for Garrisons, new level Cap and a New World? To me that seems very underwhelming as an Expansion and more like a glorified Large Scale Patch. Looking at the WoW history we normally pay for new races and or classes.

    Now this is NOT another screw Blizz Thread, I WANT all of you to step back, remove emotion (well attempt) and look at it from a "What am I truly spending my money on angle"

    I am hoping you can all help me make sense of this whole thing as the more I look at it the more im like ....seriously? WTF.
    Lets look at MoP:

    Chalenge Modes. Patch Content
    Pet Battles: Patch Content
    New Race/Class: Patch Content (since you obviously think doing all races is patch content)
    Talent System Change: Patch Content
    BMAH: Patch Content
    Scenarios: Patch Content


    See how easy it is to do that?

    It's hard to say no to Yoo-Hoo chocolate drinks...the name literally beckons.
    Tactical Disaster - Stormrage-US
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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by ablib View Post
    One of us can't help you make sense of how you personally feel about the game.

    That being said, it seems underwhelming to me because there are no new races, no new class, and no new starting areas. Without that there, there is bound to be a lacking feeling. This is just a hit we're going to have to take this expansion to have new player models.

    Lack of end game content and new world in Cata was the hit we took when we got all the old zones revamped.

    There has to be give and take, I guess.
    You may be right, and I am sure it's my fault for the Hype Train getting to me, yet I can't help to feel like there should have been something else, more?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by ramennoodleking View Post
    Lets look at MoP:

    Chalenge Modes. Patch Content
    Pet Battles: Patch Content
    New Race/Class: Patch Content (since you obviously think doing all races is patch content)
    Talent System Change: Patch Content

    See how easy it is to do that?
    Actually if you read what I stated correctly you would see I clearly consider races/classes a SELLing point not, patch content. try again-

  6. #6
    Mechagnome Synbaby's Avatar
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    •The team hasn't decided how new character models will be released yet. It could have all of the completed race at launch, or they could be added every patch

    This concerns me because they've reeled everyone in with shiny new orcs, dwarves and gnomes, but then they say that they may release other updates to character models in patches? I mean really? They are basically just teasing us at this point. With no new race or class either, I'm actually kind of let down a bit by what I've seen so far.

    I've played several mmos over the years, and I'm kind of disappointed with some of the things they are implementing. Garrisons are kind of cool, but only for awhile, then people will get bored of them. I like the changes to stats and no more reforging, but I agree that the whole thing feels more like a content patch and not an xpac.
    What doesn't destroy us, only makes us stranger

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Rayne13 View Post
    You will be paying 40 bucks for the new expansion to do the new content, the new leveling system, the new raids and dungeons system, experience the new talent system, the new cleaned up back system, the new character models, the new player housing, the new lore. A new race and class is sometimes nice, but we have 11 classes, do we need more. Same for the races. I am much happier that my orc hunter will look better than getting a new race. If you dont find this new expansion to be exciting, you are not required to get it. But remember, it is very early, they have not announced EVERYTHING we will be getting Blizzard has things they are working on that will be introduced later on into 6.0

    Right..... but 90% of what you just said we normally get in "Patch content" so not sure how this helps answer the questions on selling points for a product.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I mean seriously what are truly paying for here, because if you have been around long enough the vast majority of the reveals should feel like updated patch content and normal game tweaking progression fixes.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Barefoot View Post
    I am a beta player, and have leveled all 11 classes to 90. I love this game, have hated it at times, but I am still here. Yes I will admit I have been hanging on by a string lately but I want to try and take the emotion out for a second and look at the facts. I own every CE edition that has been released and each one has had strong selling points. So lets look at WoD and it's so called selling points vs standard and evolving upgrades to the game, i.e "patch feeling content"

    1. Garrisons- Selling point, personally think it's kinda of cool.
    2. Item squish- Patch content
    3. LvL Cap to 100- Can be argued as both, as it is expected with any expansion, not really a "new" selling point.
    4. New Race models- uuuummm honestly in my opinion it's patch content not a selling point.
    5. Stat, Gear, Profession changes-Patch content.
    6. New world- Selling point and maybe patch content undertones, as expected new Art and zones.
    7. New Raids/Raiding changes- Feels like patch content.

    So when you look at the facts you can argue we are going to be paying 40-100$ for Garrisons, new level Cap and a New World? To me that seems very underwhelming as an Expansion and more like a glorified Large Scale Patch. Looking at the WoW history we normally pay for new races and or classes.

    Now this is NOT another screw Blizz Thread, I WANT all of you to step back, remove emotion (well attempt) and look at it from a "What am I truly spending my money on angle"

    I am hoping you can all help me make sense of this whole thing as the more I look at it the more im like ....seriously? WTF.
    You are going to have to learn to deal with change and the unexpected or quit playing. You are making knee jerk decisions based on what you don't know, but rather how you expect you will react to it. It's a reaction that dates back to our caveman ancestors as any change in their preferred environment could cause their death, you just have to get past that urge to reject anything that is new and different.

  9. #9
    Brewmaster ramennoodleking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barefoot View Post
    I am a beta player, and have leveled all 11 classes to 90. I love this game, have hated it at times, but I am still here. Yes I will admit I have been hanging on by a string lately but I want to try and take the emotion out for a second and look at the facts. I own every CE edition that has been released and each one has had strong selling points. So lets look at WoD and it's so called selling points vs standard and evolving upgrades to the game, i.e "patch feeling content"

    1. Garrisons- Selling point, personally think it's kinda of cool.
    2. Item squish- Patch content
    3. LvL Cap to 100- Can be argued as both, as it is expected with any expansion, not really a "new" selling point.
    4. New Race models- uuuummm honestly in my opinion it's patch content not a selling point.
    5. Stat, Gear, Profession changes-Patch content.
    6. New world- Selling point and maybe patch content undertones, as expected new Art and zones.
    7. New Raids/Raiding changes- Feels like patch content.

    So when you look at the facts you can argue we are going to be paying 40-100$ for Garrisons, new level Cap and a New World? To me that seems very underwhelming as an Expansion and more like a glorified Large Scale Patch. Looking at the WoW history we normally pay for new races and or classes.

    Now this is NOT another screw Blizz Thread, I WANT all of you to step back, remove emotion (well attempt) and look at it from a "What am I truly spending my money on angle"

    I am hoping you can all help me make sense of this whole thing as the more I look at it the more im like ....seriously? WTF.
    What was that again? Oh yes, that's right. Exactly what I originally said, since, you know, a whole bunch of shiny new race models is the same as one shiny new race model. You are pretty naïve, and I love how you skip the rest of the post. You can label EVERYTHING as patch content. Show me one patch that had all the content WoD is offering.

    It's hard to say no to Yoo-Hoo chocolate drinks...the name literally beckons.
    Tactical Disaster - Stormrage-US
    16/16 Heroic T14
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  10. #10
    People normally think a new race is worthwhile expansion content. So 2-4 new models are expansion worthy content, but you're saying here that 16-18 new models is only a patch?

    I think Garrisons and the new models are definitely worth it. A lot of the other stuff is what you expect from an expansion (new levels, new continent/world, new raids/dungeons)
    "There is good and evil in this world; we must find the black and white in the gray."

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    You are going to have to learn to deal with change and the unexpected or quit playing. You are making knee jerk decisions based on what you don't know, but rather how you expect you will react to it. It's a reaction that dates back to our caveman ancestors as any change in their preferred environment could cause their death, you just have to get past that urge to reject anything that is new and different.
    I see what you are trying to do there, but I was posing questions not making decision's. You missed the entire essence of he post in an in-direct attempt to flame it. There is, no was there any type of "knee-jerk" decision. And everything I posted we do "know" as it was released from Blizzcon.....

  12. #12
    This expansion is a weird sort of plea to players. "Look, we know what we made a lot of content in MoP, and a lot of it was really accessible, and you still left in droves. So if we make some game elements even more trivial, maybe give you a house, some bots to bring epics home for you, a free 90, make gearing as simple as talent trees, and give even clearer instructions on how to do quests, will you stay around? We'll even give you new models.... pretty please?"
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  13. #13
    Legendary! Tommo's Avatar
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    Barefoot I dont know how long you've been on MMOC for, but attempting to have a constructive discussion about WoW never works. (unless of course its a circlejerk of "YEY I LUV THIS STUFF, BLIZZARD FOR PRESIDENT")

    Personally I feel like Garrisons and the new world are the only selling points of this expansion, however im worried that Garrisons arent going to be very lengthy and might get boring fast, or they might put gold requirements on it, instantly nullifying my interest.

    I have a feeling they are investing all their manpower into the new world, making it interesting and explorable enough to enjoy for months until a new content patch or feature. Hopefully this revitalisation of world PvP they are trying to push will be enough to keep the interest in WoW strong.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    People normally think a new race is worthwhile expansion content. So 2-4 new models are expansion worthy content, but you're saying here that 16-18 new models is only a patch?

    I think Garrisons and the new models are definitely worth it. A lot of the other stuff is what you expect from an expansion (new levels, new continent/world, new raids/dungeons)
    Ok, you definitely have a valid point with that perception on new models. But let me ask you this about them, isn't it more of a needed and expected upgrade for the outdated graphics?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tommo View Post
    Barefoot I dont know how long you've been on MMOC for, but attempting to have a constructive discussion about WoW never works. (unless of course its a circlejerk of "YEY I LUV THIS STUFF, BLIZZARD FOR PRESIDENT")

    Personally I feel like Garrisons and the new world are the only selling points of this expansion, however im worried that Garrisons arent going to be very lengthy and might get boring fast, or they might put gold requirements on it, instantly nullifying my interest.

    I have a feeling they are investing all their manpower into the new world, making it interesting and explorable enough to enjoy for months until a new content patch or feature. Hopefully this revitalisation of world PvP they are trying to push will be enough to keep the interest in WoW strong.
    I have been using MMOC as ref for years, but just never registered to the forums for the reason you stated in the first sentence. Maybe cause I am getting older or I just felt I needed to jump into the conversation. I think you may be on to something though, I could be just spinning my wheels here.

  15. #15
    So really, only new classes and races aren't patch content?

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    This expansion is a weird sort of plea to players. "Look, we know what we made a lot of content in MoP, and a lot of it was really accessible, and you still left in droves. So if we make some game elements even more trivial, maybe give you a house, some bots to bring epics home for you, a free 90, make gearing as simple as talent trees, and give even clearer instructions on how to do quests, will you stay around? We'll even give you new models.... pretty please?"
    Instead of thinking "huh, maybe we went too far" they think "huh, maybe we didn't go far enough". We'll see, my parents still play, I'll ask them what they think of all this next time I visit; it should be interesting.

  17. #17
    This is why so many are disappointed. Imagine MoP if there was no Pandaren or Monk class, Cataclysm is there was no Goblin / Worgan, WoTLK without Death Knights. WoD needs a class or race to define it.

    Is it really that hard to make Ogres playable? That one change would make a huge difference for those disappointed right now.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by StationaryHawk View Post
    So really, only new classes and races aren't patch content?
    Point taken, but now I task you to go back and look at all the patches, lets just say within the last year. Now after doing that, is not most of the reveals of the new Ex-Pac on the same level as a upgraded content Patch? Yes, granted its alot of content at once, but as far as a selling point I don't see the meat here. Most of the thing we are getting we should be getting as the tech and genre evolves. talant, professions, new raids, new dungeons, skill/stat tweaking is all part of the normal evolution of the game we have received mainly through patch content in the past. You may not agree with my opinion but you can not ignore fact.

  19. #19
    One thing we definitely do NOT need is any more races or classes. I was hoping there wouldn't be any so I'm happy that there aren't. We don't need balancing to get any more complicated than it already is. I am confident that this xpac will be very good. I'm also very happy that we get 10 more levels of exploration and questing instead of 5 again. I'm really hoping that twice the levels means it will take twice as long to get to max as it did in Cata and MoP.

    This expansion just may top them all. We'll have to wait and see but at first glance, it looks very promising to me.
    Last edited by Dch48; 2013-11-09 at 11:06 PM.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by ramennoodleking View Post
    What was that again? Oh yes, that's right. Exactly what I originally said, since, you know, a whole bunch of shiny new race models is the same as one shiny new race model. You are pretty naïve, and I love how you skip the rest of the post. You can label EVERYTHING as patch content. Show me one patch that had all the content WoD is offering.
    And again..... go back and look at the history of patches my friend. The majority of the ex-pac reveals ARE on the same level as what we normally would receive in a patch content. The fact you can't see that is astounding

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