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  1. #1
    The Lightbringer Elunedra's Avatar
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    [Feral] level 100 talents discussion

    (made a seperated topic as the other topic is getting confusing with so many specs talking tru each other)
    Ofcourse this is all verry early game details and everything will change

    So looking at the talents from a cat PVE perspective:

    Feral (Savagery)
    •Passive
    •Savage Roar is now passive.
    Well this ofcourse gives a dps gain, as everytime you spend your energy and cp's on SR you can now do a FB.
    However this will make the rotation a lot easyer. it probely a realy good talent for starting ferals.
    It also works equaly good for single and multitarget fights.


    Feral (Bloody Thrash)
    •Passive
    •Thrash now also spreads Rake to other damaged enemies.
    this is a major aoe dps boost. But on a single target dps fight such as a boss this is completely useless.
    So if you get a boss with a lot of adds, this will realy help.

    Feral (Lunar Inspiration)
    •Passive
    •Moonfire is now usable while in Cat Form, generates 1 combo point, and costs 30 energy.
    Now this one is realy intresting, ofcourse the dmg of a feral moonfire needs to be a lot higher before this becomes worth it, but i am sure blizzard will balance it
    That then leaves us with an other Rake style ability, an initial dmg and a dot
    It does not state it will replace Rake so this will mean you will have 1 addional dot to keep track off.
    I can see this beeying the strongest talent for single target dps and likely also for 2 targets.
    However the extra dot to keep track off will result in advanced gameplay only for the bests.

    So either we can go easy mode with SR or go hardmode with Moonfire
    TREE DURID IS 4 PEE

  2. #2
    Moonfire for me at least for PVP, 5 cp SR for instant root/HT/hibernate is a must

  3. #3
    The Lightbringer Elunedra's Avatar
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    intresting indeed, i didnt consider that but it will give the ability to build combo point at range
    TREE DURID IS 4 PEE

  4. #4
    Any indication that this will simplify the feral rotation?

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by madokbro View Post
    Any indication that this will simplify the feral rotation?
    Depends. Can moonfire crit for 2 combo points? Would it be worth using thrash to apply rake even in single target situations? Both of those could have impact on the feral rotation. Bloody Thrash stacking with DoC would be interesting as well.

    Savage roar being passive simplifies the rotation sure.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Themessiah View Post
    Depends. Can moonfire crit for 2 combo points? Would it be worth using thrash to apply rake even in single target situations? Both of those could have impact on the feral rotation. Bloody Thrash stacking with DoC would be interesting as well.

    Savage roar being passive simplifies the rotation sure.
    Well it depends - if dot snapshotting is gone, then our class abilities are most likely going to be updated in WoD to offset higher direct-damage percentages (shred, mangle, rake, melee, F. Bite) otherwise 70% of our dps is going to be subject to heavy RNG variance.
    So assuming abilities will change it's hard to put any new abilities/talents into context without knowing what role in our rotation they're actually gonna fill.


    In regards to passive roar - with our current paradigm - it might actually be harder to pull off with high ilvl gear since roar gives efficient DoC procs per energy spent where-as FB will burn some of it away; not saying that's bad for dps, just saying it might be exposing us to more low-cp, low-energy situations - which you want to avoid when running 2 RPPM trinkets.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Elunedra View Post
    Feral (Lunar Inspiration)
    •Passive
    •Moonfire is now usable while in Cat Form, generates 1 combo point, and costs 30 energy.
    Now this one is realy intresting, ofcourse the dmg of a feral moonfire needs to be a lot higher before this becomes worth it, but i am sure blizzard will balance it
    That then leaves us with an other Rake style ability, an initial dmg and a dot
    It does not state it will replace Rake so this will mean you will have 1 addional dot to keep track off.
    I can see this beeying the strongest talent for single target dps and likely also for 2 targets.
    However the extra dot to keep track off will result in advanced gameplay only for the bests.
    Remember feral mastery increases bleed damage, not dot damage outright. So either the mastery needs to get updated to just blanket increase dots, or moonfire needs to get flagged as a bleed for this talent. Just a minor thing to point out. If neither of those two things happen I can't see this talent ever being useful for actual damage unless they just absurdly buffed it to scale off agility really oddly. So ya, I'd strongly encourage ferals in in future beta tests to test out if the moonfire scales with mastery and regardless if it does or doesn't make sure that it intentionally scales with mastery when live comes around.
    What are you willing to sacrifice?

  8. #8
    It does not require to scale with mastery. Slightly less damage than thrash would be enough.

    edit: also without dot snapshot ferals gonna have less "heavy RNG variance"
    Last edited by mmokri; 2013-11-11 at 02:59 AM.

  9. #9
    The Lightbringer Elunedra's Avatar
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    well likely the passive agi > nature spellpowder needs tobe changed to give us agi to > any spellpowder

    this should up moonfire its dammage quite a lot, it doesnt nessecarly have to scale with mastery, and its fine if it does a lot less dmg then rake.
    but since it cost energy. it does need todo enough dmg to be worth using over a Shred or Mangle
    TREE DURID IS 4 PEE

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Elunedra View Post
    well likely the passive agi > nature spellpowder needs tobe changed to give us agi to > any spellpowder

    this should up moonfire its dammage quite a lot, it doesnt nessecarly have to scale with mastery, and its fine if it does a lot less dmg then rake.
    but since it cost energy. it does need todo enough dmg to be worth using over a Shred or Mangle
    It mustn't be worth using over Shred or Mangle because in that case it would already state that it would replace them. There's no need to have a more efficient ability just to use it. The main benefit I see from moonfire at the moment is its high range, making it the only combo generator (for now) that we can reliably use to generate combo points while not in melee range. I see it more as a free combo generator for movement phases and ranged phases on certain boss mechanics. It's no doubt also an easy way to generate combo points when chasing someone in PvP so you can land that 5CP rip/main immediately.

  11. #11
    The Lightbringer Elunedra's Avatar
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    thats one way of looking at it, the way i looked at it, is as an extra dot that you MUST keep up, much like rake.
    i wont repalce shred or mangle, becase the initail damage aint worth it. but if it get time to tick for its full duration it should be more efficent then Shred or Mangle

    in your idea the dps gain will be minimal.
    TREE DURID IS 4 PEE

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Themessiah View Post

    Savage roar being passive simplifies the rotation sure.
    It does simplify the rotation, but really how much of a dps gain is it? Your talking about 5 cps and 5 energy (20 refund from Sotf) every 40 seconds or so. I just don't think it will be enough of a dps increase over the other two to use.

    Obviously MF will have to have some benefit from AP->SP conversion, because if it has the same scaling it has now the talent is pretty much useless other than generating CPs at range.

    Bloody thrash is only good in aoe situations from reading the current tooltip, if they just made thrash strait up apply rake it'd be a rather decent dps increase.


    Overall though as far as the feral talents go there's just too many questions up in the air to determine what will be the best, really the only true dps increase is moonfire assuming that there will be some kind of increased scaling. SR being passive maybe good for pvp, but then you'd be giving up what I'd consider to be a powerful ranged dot in MF.

    Only time will tell, its probably too early to speculate, though I'm most excited for the moonfire talent if the scaling is decent.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Elunedra View Post
    (made a seperated topic as the other topic is getting confusing with so many specs talking tru each other)
    Ofcourse this is all verry early game details and everything will change

    So looking at the talents from a cat PVE perspective:

    Feral (Savagery)
    •Passive
    •Savage Roar is now passive.
    Well this ofcourse gives a dps gain, as everytime you spend your energy and cp's on SR you can now do a FB.
    However this will make the rotation a lot easyer. it probely a realy good talent for starting ferals.
    It also works equaly good for single and multitarget fights.
    i quite honestly find this a pretty good talent for newly started ferals who either do not want to min / max or just dosent care.
    id pick this if i werent done any on the edge raiding simply just to get that "easier" rotation

  14. #14
    The Lightbringer Fahrenheit's Avatar
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    Feral (Savagery)
    •Passive
    •Savage Roar is now passive.


    It's nice for PvP too. I find it's much easier to have DoTs and buffs (such as Savage Roar) to fall off in the wild scrum that is PvP. Plus you'd be able to drop Glyph of savagry for something else.
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  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Elunedra View Post
    well likely the passive agi > nature spellpowder needs tobe changed to give us agi to > any spellpowder

    this should up moonfire its dammage quite a lot, it doesnt nessecarly have to scale with mastery, and its fine if it does a lot less dmg then rake.
    but since it cost energy. it does need todo enough dmg to be worth using over a Shred or Mangle

    Man it's spellpower, not powder. What, do you think blizzard scales spells by throwing some magic dust on them?

  16. #16
    Savagery - Replace your Roar button with bite.
    Moonfire - Sounds useless unless we get some boost to spellpower or we can't reach boss.
    Bloody Thrash - Replace your rake button with thrash (massively op on multitarget)

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by parlaa View Post
    Savagery - Replace your Roar button with bite.
    Moonfire - Sounds useless unless we get some boost to spellpower or we can't reach boss.
    Bloody Thrash - Replace your rake button with thrash (massively op on multitarget)
    With blood thrash, thrash spreads your rake it doesn't apply it. Keep it on your bar.

  18. #18
    Blademaster boochicken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agartha View Post
    With blood thrash, thrash spreads your rake it doesn't apply it. Keep it on your bar.
    This ^^

    I haven't played feral since 5.1 but then you would thrash single target anyway (mainly with ooc), so you wouldn't be replacing rake with thrash as it should already be there. For aoe though, spreading a DoC rake would be sweet.

    Also, what's wrong with magic dust?

  19. #19
    Honestly all three talents are kinda meh. There are some positives but generally I think more negatives imo.

    Feral (Savagery)
    Pro:
    Great if you're new to feral or don't run DoC or hate keeping up the buff. One less glyph.

    Con: Horrible, Horrible Horrible idea w/ DoC. We need SR for the proc for DoC. Unless DoC is changed this is crap synergy with our top performing talent. I would write this talent off as not viable with DoC tbh.


    Feral (Bloody Thrash)
    Pro:
    Holy Crap no more tab targeting rake- saves time and energy.

    Con:
    Only really good if you have 2+ mobs. With DoC it almost seems broken. This is a very powerfull talent but I don't want to see the value of rake diminished because of it. Hopefully they will add a % modifier to nerf the damage a tad and leave rake alone.

    Feral (Lunar Inspiration)
    Pro:
    Nice ranged ability, at 30 energy it can't be "spammed" but gives us some options.

    Con:
    To many questions I think? What will the damage be like? Will it scale with mastery? Etc. On a personal level I'm not a fan of this talent or the idea of being a pewpew kitty-I'll pass.

    That being said my talent of choice: If running DoC: Bloody Thrash. If running HOTW/NV: Passive Savagery (as long as its as strong as active savagery)

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by FeralSynapse View Post
    Honestly all three talents are kinda meh. There are some positives but generally I think more negatives imo.

    Feral (Savagery)
    Pro:
    Great if you're new to feral or don't run DoC or hate keeping up the buff. One less glyph.

    Con: Horrible, Horrible Horrible idea w/ DoC. We need SR for the proc for DoC. Unless DoC is changed this is crap synergy with our top performing talent. I would write this talent off as not viable with DoC tbh.
    Huh? You get Predatory Swiftness from Ferocious Bite as well. You wouldn't get less DoC charges because Savage Roar is a passive?

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