1. #1
    Blademaster ReklessJonez's Avatar
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    Badluck with Srv and LoL procs

    Hey again fellow hunters. I know that Survival spec is supposed to be top dawg right now but I find my self rarely getting these Super LoL procs everyone talks about. I'm 565 iLvL Ive got my 4pc unbuffed I got around 12k haste at 28ish % and 13k crit at 43ish%. Most of the time on my opener I don't even see a LoL proc until all my trinket procs have came and gone. Is anyone else havin this issue out there? Or am I doing something wrong.

    Also, When I got my HM protectors Xbow I played MM for the rest of and the following week and felt like I got more Instant AS procs than LoL when I play surv. I know alot of PPL don't play MM. But given what I've said above should I Just go MM since I'm not getting the same LoL love as others? Any comments constructive and otherwise are appreciated

  2. #2
    SV is too much RNG orientated, you should really go MM or even BM. The RNG asociated with SV 4p and LnL really make it an underperforming spec compared to the other two. Even it's AoE can be questionable at times. If you're a fan of luck and RNG then survival might be the one for you but I personally would not go there especially with high end raiding where the others massively outperform it.

  3. #3
    I think your problem with SV RNG is an over reaction and probably more due to psychology than actually looking at the numbers. SV DPS is pretty damn stable compared to most specs, you hardly ever get big swings from RNG, other than in short burst windows such as Blackfuse conveyer belt. If you think you're getting more instant aimed shots than LnL procs then you're doing something wrong or your confirmation bias is kicking in, because that's not something that should happen.
    When you say something like "I'm not getting the same LoL love as others" you are simply not thinking straight. Sample sizes are large enough that I assure you that if you were to post a log your LnL procs and uptime will be similar to everyone else.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yes View Post
    SV is too much RNG orientated, you should really go MM or even BM. The RNG asociated with SV 4p and LnL really make it an underperforming spec compared to the other two. Even it's AoE can be questionable at times. If you're a fan of luck and RNG then survival might be the one for you but I personally would not go there especially with high end raiding where the others massively outperform it.
    This is laughably incorrect.

  4. #4
    Blademaster ReklessJonez's Avatar
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    I am runnin a flex tonight and I will link the logs. But, I have a question.. How can i be doing something wrong with 90+% up time on BA. Can I cheat a LoL off a frost trap on a boss? And its not a Psychological thing. I legit raid with some other hunters sometimes and thier uptime for LoL is like 28-33% and im usually at around 23-28%. Don't get me wrong I have had good pulls where i have i nice uptime close to 40% but its way to inconsistent IMO. Was just wondering if there was a way to guarantee a better uptime (More haste?) or is it all luck ? My biggest string was like 7 in a row but I've read some posts where ppl clain 17 and to me that seems farfetched.

  5. #5
    Field Marshal Zanzili's Avatar
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    Effect lasts for 12 sec and cannot occur more often than once every 10 sec. Maybe try to string it with Freezing Trap or Ice Trap if it takes longer than 10sec before getting locked and loaded again. BA only as 20% chance and it wont get any higher going towards WoD. Also opening with a trap is tricky. Some items cds do not pop up in the beginning of the fight.

    This is a part from http://www.icy-veins.com/survival-hu...#lock-and-load
    5.4. Lock and Load Procs

    Whenever you deal periodic damage with Black Arrow Icon Black Arrow, you have a 20% chance to trigger a Lock and Load Icon Lock and Load proc, which causes your next two Explosive Shot Icon Explosive Shots to cost no focus and trigger no cooldown, in other words allowing you to cast three Explosive Shots in a row.

    The proc has a 12-second duration, and 10-second internal cooldown. In order to maximise the benefit from Lock and Load, you need to make sure that you have used up every proc before the internal cooldown expires. This should not be a problem.

    Whenever you get a Lock and Load proc, you should simply fire the Explosive Shots one after the other. Prior to Mists of Pandaria, this was a small DPS loss, due to the way the Explosive Shot DoT worked, but it is no longer a problem.

    In the event that you are at maximum focus when a Lock and Load proc happens, or you reach maximum focus between your two Explosive Shots, you should simply cast one or more Arcane Shot Icon Arcane Shots.

    Note that Lock and Load Icon Lock and Load also procs each time you trap a target with Ice Trap Icon Ice Trap or Freezing Trap Icon Freezing Trap. You can make use of this by placing an Ice Trap at the location where the boss will spawn/become active/be pulled, if the encounter allows. As long as you are able to do this before combat starts, then you will have a guaranteed Lock and Load at no cost whatsoever.

    This strategy is not worth using during combat, since it is not worth the global cooldown (and Black Arrow Icon Black Arrow procs Lock and Load quite reliably anyway).
    Special thanks to Shyama for the Signature

  6. #6
    Blademaster ReklessJonez's Avatar
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    TY for the input. I fully understand how LoL procs work. My issue is with my T-16 4pc not proccing on a consistent enough basis. I was wondering if there was anything I can do to help my proc chances. If not I'm just unlucky I guess. But i think I'll raid as MM for the next few weeks and see what's up. Ty for all the input guys/girls.

    -BowsBeforeHoes

  7. #7
    If you have 90%+ uptime on BA then you're doin fine. Don't bother wasting GCD's mid fight on frost traps to game LnL procs unless there is some downtime or a very high priority burst window coming up.
    As an aside, I was recently trying to figure out whether it's a good idea to refresh BA during 4pc LnL procs. Depending on your approach to this your BA uptime will differ, some logs had 98-100% uptime and some had as low as 80% due to spammin that shiny Expl shot button and letting dots fall. There really wasn't a noticeable difference between the two approaches in the logs I trawled through. What some have recommended and what I generally do is to let BA fall during LnL and keep casting explosive shot until you run out of charges or if the LnL internal cooldown is ready (10 consecutive expl) then reapply BA.

    In the event that you are at maximum focus when a Lock and Load proc happens, or you reach maximum focus between your two Explosive Shots, you should simply cast one or more Arcane Shot Icon Arcane Shots.
    This is incorrect. Prevent focus capping if you can, but when you do focus cap (and you will) just keep on pressing your highest priority buttons (ie. not arcane shot).


    My biggest string was like 7 in a row but I've read some posts where ppl clain 17 and to me that seems farfetched.
    I find it hard to believe that your highest is 7 if you've been playing with the 4pc for more than an hour or so. My highest is 21, and I get 10 or more all the time.
    Download that addon someone made and posted on these forums that records your high score for LnL procs. I think the highest I got playing SV on like two bosses last night was 12 or something.

    edit:
    But i think I'll raid as MM for the next few weeks and see what's up. Ty for all the input guys/girls.
    I played MM last raid for most bosses and it's pretty close, but I definitely do more as SV.
    Maybe you'll have different results depending on gear and familiarity with the specs, but SV should probably win if you are playing both decently.
    That said, I do enjoy playing MM and getting top logs. It's like taking candy from a baby. >
    Last edited by mediic; 2013-11-14 at 10:26 AM.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Yes View Post
    SV is too much RNG orientated, you should really go MM or even BM. The RNG asociated with SV 4p and LnL really make it an underperforming spec compared to the other two. Even it's AoE can be questionable at times. If you're a fan of luck and RNG then survival might be the one for you but I personally would not go there especially with high end raiding where the others massively outperform it.
    Can you please stop posting on these forums with buillshit, looking at your history of posts you haven't got a clue what your talking about!

  9. #9
    1) Lock and Load can only proc once every ten seconds max, so there are time where you will use up your L&L ES procs and then have to wait out the L&L cooldown and then wait for it to proc again.

    2) You could make a weak aura letting you know the time since the last proc of L&L and if it is still on cooldown, slipping a BA in between explosive shots is probably not worth it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yes View Post
    SV is too much RNG orientated, you should really go MM or even BM. The RNG asociated with SV 4p and LnL really make it an underperforming spec compared to the other two. Even it's AoE can be questionable at times. If you're a fan of luck and RNG then survival might be the one for you but I personally would not go there especially with high end raiding where the others massively outperform it.
    Ignore this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Remcos View Post
    In the event that you are at maximum focus when a Lock and Load proc happens, or you reach maximum focus between your two Explosive Shots, you should simply cast one or more Arcane Shots.
    and ignore this.... Surv is a priority based rotation and Explosive Shot is always our #1 shot.
    Last edited by Rackfu; 2013-11-14 at 02:48 PM.

  10. #10
    Blademaster ReklessJonez's Avatar
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    @ Rackfu,Mediic TY guys I did set up a weakaura to see exactly when it is up and what would the name of that LoL streak addon be?
    You guys were very helpful. Does anyone know of a good Weakauras How to video? everytime I search good ol' Youtube I just find ppl posting videos like "These are my weakauras, this is what I track" and then they start a rotation on a dummy or raidboss. I'm looking for an indepth tutorial. I want to be the best hunter on my server and if all top raiders use this addon, I want to know it inside and out.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Yes View Post
    SV is too much RNG orientated, you should really go MM or even BM. The RNG asociated with SV 4p and LnL really make it an underperforming spec compared to the other two. Even it's AoE can be questionable at times. If you're a fan of luck and RNG then survival might be the one for you but I personally would not go there especially with high end raiding where the others massively outperform it.
    Where the hell are you getting your information from?

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by ReklessJonez View Post
    what would the name of that LoL streak addon be?
    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...xplosive-Shots

  13. #13
    Rackfu is missing one thing thought. Let's say you have ted trinket and it procs, you have lnl proc and ba is ready. You should first apply black arrow with as high agi as possible and then continue spamming explosive shot. Why? Because one black arrow does more damage than one explosive shot and it snapshots your stats. If you don't have any major buffs going on then explosive shot is your main priority.

    Comparing to other two specs survival is indeed very rng based spec. I don't comment on mm, but BM is the reliable spec, if you need damage in some specific time BM is best choice because of it's "burstiness" while survival dps is pretty straight forward unless some really lucky lnl procs which you can't predict. Really only rng for BM is trinkets, for survival it's trinkets, lnl proc and how many explosive shots you can cast without consuming lnl proc.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by soviett View Post
    Rackfu is missing one thing thought. Let's say you have ted trinket and it procs, you have lnl proc and ba is ready. You should first apply black arrow with as high agi as possible and then continue spamming explosive shot. Why? Because one black arrow does more damage than one explosive shot and it snapshots your stats. If you don't have any major buffs going on then explosive shot is your main priority.

    Comparing to other two specs survival is indeed very rng based spec. I don't comment on mm, but BM is the reliable spec, if you need damage in some specific time BM is best choice because of it's "burstiness" while survival dps is pretty straight forward unless some really lucky lnl procs which you can't predict. Really only rng for BM is trinkets, for survival it's trinkets, lnl proc and how many explosive shots you can cast without consuming lnl proc.
    Good point.

    I was going to say that if trinket procs or things like engineering gloves/scope/tailoring cloak, then reapplying BA and popping AMoC/Stampede are worth skipping ES.

  15. #15
    Herald of the Titans Joyful's Avatar
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    Random Generated Numbers.

    RNG.

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